I have heard that many people use oversized filters because in theory they should clean the oil better because there is more surface area. However, has this best tested in any way? For example the filter I am susposed to use is the Napa Gold 1085,but the larger equivilent in the 1515 is it worth it to get the larger one?
Where is the Proof?
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I thought the main reason people used oversized filters was for the increased oil capacity. A larger filter isn't necessarily going to work any better than a smaller one, unless that engine puts out particles large enough to be filtered out.
Just my uninformed opinion.
I think that would be an advantage but does an engine that holds 6-8 quarts have a longer ocI than a engine that has a 4qt oil capacity? If that is false it all falls on the theory of the larger filter having more filtering media therfore the oil stays cleaner?
Short answer? Reserve oil capacity and somewhat increased cooling effect. If a larger filter has the correct diameter and thread pitch outlet, a compatible sealing gasket diameter, the same bypass pressure range, more filtration medium (a big "if" that cannot be assumed), allows refilling with an increased quantity of oil, costs the same, and there's sufficient physical clearance to be feasible, why not? Unless the filtration medium of the larger filter filters smaller particles than that of the standard size filter, there will be NO increase in oil cleanliness. But, the larger filter will have more reserve capacity before it's saturated. If the larger filter does have increased medium area, more oil volume can be "pushed" through the filter at a given pump pressure - less reliance on the bypass valve to maintain oil volume and pressure with unfiltered oil to the engine in marginal or high output situations.
[ August 14, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
[ August 14, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
The media has a certain max flow rate per sq inch, so more sq inches theoretically can give a higher max flow rate...unless something else limits the flow (the inlet or outlet hole area).
The media also has a certain debris holding capacity before blocking as well, so more media can also mean longer effective filtering life, probably the biggest benefit of an oversize filter. Only benefit of a smaller filter is that a mfgr can specify fewer filter sizes to fit more vehicles due to size/location considerations.
and what Ray said above
The media also has a certain debris holding capacity before blocking as well, so more media can also mean longer effective filtering life, probably the biggest benefit of an oversize filter. Only benefit of a smaller filter is that a mfgr can specify fewer filter sizes to fit more vehicles due to size/location considerations.
and what Ray said above
Exactly what I'd have said and the reason I use an oversize filter.
[ August 14, 2004, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: SAFN49 ]
I agree with Ray H, and ZR2RANDO. I would just add, if you have a dinky oil filter and spend a lot of time in the upper half of the rpm range for your engine, your dinky oil filter is spending a lot of time in bypass mode, especially as you get to the end of your OCI. And, if the larger filter is the same price, it's not costing you anything for the added insurance.
Simple answer, NO.
The benefits of larger oil capacity (way less than a pint) and cooling (1/2 of 1 degree????) are margional at best.
It is just another case of the "gearheads" throwing $$ and time trying to get a benefit that is not needed.
No one is really going to run a filter within 10% of it's filtering life.
You can get 200,000 miles from specified filters with a decent oil change interval.
Go get a Purolator Pure One for $6.00 (top rated filter), it has the correct flow rate and bypass pressure for your application. It is just that simple.
The benefits of larger oil capacity (way less than a pint) and cooling (1/2 of 1 degree????) are margional at best.
It is just another case of the "gearheads" throwing $$ and time trying to get a benefit that is not needed.
No one is really going to run a filter within 10% of it's filtering life.
You can get 200,000 miles from specified filters with a decent oil change interval.
Go get a Purolator Pure One for $6.00 (top rated filter), it has the correct flow rate and bypass pressure for your application. It is just that simple.
Right-on!
The reverse is also true. You can get 200,000 miles on your oil with the proper filters and filter change intervals.
Ugly 3, I would not dispute your observations regarding capacity and cooling, perhaps your statement about filter life is accurate also. That said, I do think that the "over-size filter" attribute of increased flow area, that Ray H. and ZR2RANDO postulate and the reasons they have for concluding that this is a good thing are certainly not inconsequential and are worth a buck or two extra of my money.
Buy a PureOne for superior filtering, then "supersize" it for superior flow - Man! It doesn't get any better than that, does it?
Regards, Doug
Buy a PureOne for superior filtering, then "supersize" it for superior flow - Man! It doesn't get any better than that, does it?
Regards, Doug
"It is just another case of the "gearheads" throwing $$ and time trying to get a benefit that is not needed."
EXAMPLE #1
The Bosch #3312 is a "stock" Honda and Mitsubish-Mopar replacement filter. It has a paltry 81 sq in of media. The oversized PureOne #24458 has about 198 sq in, over twice that of the Bosch. The PureOne also filters finer and costs a half-buck LESS than the Bosch. Just one example of "gearheads" getting better filtration through an oversize filter, while saving a half-buck in the process.
EXAMPLE #2
Honda owners can use the stock Purolator #14459, OR FOR THE SAME PRICE, opt for the #24458, with about 54% more media. Doesn't require a rocket scientist in this case -- go for the oversized filter at no additional cost.
"Stock" filters will typically do just fine. But more media area = less chance of clogging, and more significantly, reduced flow impairment over the entire life cycle of the filter. Never forget what you're paying for in a filter: FILTRATION MEDIA. The more, the better.
[ August 14, 2004, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
EXAMPLE #1
The Bosch #3312 is a "stock" Honda and Mitsubish-Mopar replacement filter. It has a paltry 81 sq in of media. The oversized PureOne #24458 has about 198 sq in, over twice that of the Bosch. The PureOne also filters finer and costs a half-buck LESS than the Bosch. Just one example of "gearheads" getting better filtration through an oversize filter, while saving a half-buck in the process.
EXAMPLE #2
Honda owners can use the stock Purolator #14459, OR FOR THE SAME PRICE, opt for the #24458, with about 54% more media. Doesn't require a rocket scientist in this case -- go for the oversized filter at no additional cost.
"Stock" filters will typically do just fine. But more media area = less chance of clogging, and more significantly, reduced flow impairment over the entire life cycle of the filter. Never forget what you're paying for in a filter: FILTRATION MEDIA. The more, the better.
[ August 14, 2004, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
Okay guys, who has actually cut open a used filter and seen it clogged up when used in a well operating engine under normal driving conditions? I will bet no one. I have cut way too many of these suckers open and they simply are useless, the media captures so little and they are so, so, so far away from being plugged up so that they are contantly in bypass that this arguement of a filter getting plugged up just does not exist in real life unless you overkill the oil and filter. I have gone 10,000 miles on one fitler and it was no different inside then the one I changed at 5000 miles. Way too much emphasis on filtering. Perhaps the argument of a few more ounces of oil in using an oversized but other then that it is not worth the effort, just my humble opinion!
Let's see. I walk into the parts store and I can pick up a:
Part Number: 51348
Height: 3.404
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.734 2.430 0.226
or I can pick up a:
Part Number: 51516
Height: 4.828
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.734 2.430 0.226
Wooowee...that was so much extra effort, I think I'll have to take a nap after that strenuous ordeal.
Sorry, I meat the effort and hassle of an arguement over the issue, it simply is not worth it.
However, most people cannot find that larger size in the exact same specs as you described, simply not that easy. But again, debating size is not an issue IMO because it makes no difference, the engines are not female!
However, most people cannot find that larger size in the exact same specs as you described, simply not that easy. But again, debating size is not an issue IMO because it makes no difference, the engines are not female!
Switching to an oversize filter on my old SHO yeidled an extra half quart in oil capacity. That's about a 10% increase. Not huge, but it's there.
Agree. Like most things here, we take some of this stuff to the nth degree. Most of us folks who've been around a while have owned cars we took to 200K+ miles on whatever dino oil was on sale and fram filters with 4-5K mile OCIs. And that was with oils from the '70s and '80s that are supposedly so inferior to what we have today.
Yet we still debate the merits of one oil over another when there a few ppm difference in UOAs in spite of the fact that these "tests" are not conducted in a scientifically controlled manner.
What might be a more interesting discussion, since you believe filters don't make much of a difference, is why a $2 Supertech oil filter is just as good/or not good as a $13 K&N.
The only real benefits of an oversized filter over a standard size filter are as follows in order of importance.
1. Larger filter media allows for reduced filter bypass time.
2. Larger filter allows for increased oil capacity.
Why?
1. Oil is pumped by a positive displacement pump that always pumps the same volume of oil, dependent on engine rpm. Since oil volume is always the same you can’t argue that flow is improved, as it is always the same, dependent on engine rpm. What happens is media will only pass so much oil at any given pressure. As the media passes more and more oil, pressure builds on the face of the media as it resists flow(larger media will pass more volume at any given pressure than a smaller media of same design. Put another way, larger media will reduce the amount of pressure required to pass any given volume than a smaller media of same design.) the filter will go into bypass. Bypass does not mean that there is no filtration as the media is still passing oil. Bypass only means that the media has reached the limit of oil it can pass at the bypass valve opening pressure. So if you increase media you decrease pressure in the can at any given volume. This means it will bypass less often and for shorter periods with the oversize filter.
2. It simply takes longer to contaminate, shear, and overwhelm the add pack of a larger volume of oil.
Contrary to the observations of some a filter is necessary as I’m sure the auto manufacturers would love to save the money and charge you the same for an engine without a filter. Also there are studies on filtration and wear rates however this is the only link I have handy. filtration v engine life
My advice would be to go with the largest media and finest filtering can that will fit.
All in MVHO.
1. Larger filter media allows for reduced filter bypass time.
2. Larger filter allows for increased oil capacity.
Why?
1. Oil is pumped by a positive displacement pump that always pumps the same volume of oil, dependent on engine rpm. Since oil volume is always the same you can’t argue that flow is improved, as it is always the same, dependent on engine rpm. What happens is media will only pass so much oil at any given pressure. As the media passes more and more oil, pressure builds on the face of the media as it resists flow(larger media will pass more volume at any given pressure than a smaller media of same design. Put another way, larger media will reduce the amount of pressure required to pass any given volume than a smaller media of same design.) the filter will go into bypass. Bypass does not mean that there is no filtration as the media is still passing oil. Bypass only means that the media has reached the limit of oil it can pass at the bypass valve opening pressure. So if you increase media you decrease pressure in the can at any given volume. This means it will bypass less often and for shorter periods with the oversize filter.
2. It simply takes longer to contaminate, shear, and overwhelm the add pack of a larger volume of oil.
Contrary to the observations of some a filter is necessary as I’m sure the auto manufacturers would love to save the money and charge you the same for an engine without a filter. Also there are studies on filtration and wear rates however this is the only link I have handy. filtration v engine life
My advice would be to go with the largest media and finest filtering can that will fit.
All in MVHO.
Rather, how about a Purolator Premium Plus for half that price? Still very good filtration and better flow.
I am running oversized on all my vehicles. Just seems like a good idea, particularly on the Aerostar 3.0 V6, which specs a small Motorcraft FL400s, but most all other Fords spec the bigger FL1A. I suspect they undersized the filter on the 3.0 because of clearance issues. It is close to the starter and exhaust. But I found the FL-1A Fits the 3.0 and the nice thing about it is an oil change now is 5 quarts (nice even number) instead of 4.5.
As someone else said, why not? There are NO disadvantages to a larger filter. Nobody is throwing money at anything...a bigger filter cost the same as a small one. There are no good reasons to keep the stock filter, and there are plenty of good reasons to use an oversized filter...
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