When to use an oil additive.

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
If they weren't part of the original oil formulation then they are additives. Additives according to you are snake oils, making everything you say contradict yourself.


I have no stake in this exchange but what I would like to point out is the following:

There are commercial oil addtives that are added to or blended into oils at the time of manufacture.

Then there are Third Party, Over the Counter (OTC), or Off The Shelf (OTS), or After Market addtives NOT blended into the original oil. This topical area applies to this category.

I don't know why this topical area isn't called,
Quote:
Third Party/ After Market additives
.


Thanks, I'm pretty sure Skyship knows what we're referring to. To to clear things up so there is no confusion, what I'm referring to is anything added by the end user to the oil for the purpose of this discussion. That should clear things up for anyone who might not have picked up on that. It would include idle flushes or anything added to the sump before a dealer hooks the car up to a "Flush Machine" as well.

 

[Trav]

Sure he know Frank. This joker thinks he is smarter than anyone here on the forum and is of the opinion that only he knows whats right and wrong, good and bad and all good stuff.

There are some people on this board that have forgotten more about cars, engines and lubricants since this AM than he will know in a lifetime, Molakule is just one of them.

 

[skyship]

I think it's better to use three classes of oil additive, firstly the common oil additives included as part of the oils own add pack, then maintenance additives used by a garage and then snake oil additives that breach the terms of a warranty.
The commercial additive producers that supply engine oil companies don't sell snake oils, although some do supply maintenance additives, sealants and glues. Some companies that provide maintenance additives do sell snake oils.
I don't know of a fully approved engine oil additive, as the GM additive approval was changed to break in use only, but there might be a few exceptions to the rule where a manufacturer can't find a suitable oil. If anyone knows of an approved engine oil additive I would be interested to see the approval and data sheet.

 

[FoxS]

skyship, Trav and demarpant - from time to time I come back to this thread just for the entertainment value. Thank You!

skyship is truly in the insurance business. He just repeats himself or finds another line of argument until the "claimant" tires and gives up. He's in an industry whose sole purpose is to tell you that you are wrong.

But Trav and demarpant, with their incredibly stubborn egos, will just refuse to go away. This thread will just go on and in. skyship the Relentless vs Trav and demarpant the Stubborn Duo.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
skyship, Trav and demarpant - from time to time I come back to this thread just for the entertainment value. Thank You!

skyship is truly in the insurance business. He just repeats himself or finds another line of argument until the "claimant" tires and gives up. He's in an industry whose sole purpose is to tell you that you are wrong.

But Trav and demarpant, with their incredibly stubborn egos, will just refuse to go away. This thread will just go on and in. skyship the Relentless vs Trav and demarpant the Stubborn Duo.


Believe it or not you share that same stubborn ego you mentioned Trav and I have. LOL Why not join in the fun yourself, your personality and cheap shot attacks are just what's needed to add to the entertainment value of this thread.

 

[FoxS]

demarpaint, you raise such an enticing possibility that I am tempted to accept your suggestion.

But I think that the chemistry between the three of you is perfect so I'll remain a spectator. Thanks again!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
demarpaint, you raise such an enticing possibility that I am tempted to accept your suggestion.

But I think that the chemistry between the three of you is perfect so I'll remain a spectator. Thanks again!


You're right its better that way, take your cheap shots elsewhere they boost the entertainment value of other threads. This one is just fine without you.

 

[FoxS]

Thanks for the feedback demarpaint.

What's important is that my cheap shots are accurate. As well as the multiple pm's I get that agree with me, your immediate replies on whatever thread I happen to post on are gratifying confirmations. Thank you again!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Thanks for the feedback demarpaint.

What's important is that my cheap shots are accurate. As well as the multiple pm's I get that agree with me, your immediate replies on whatever thread I happen to post on are gratifying confirmations. Thank you again!


Hey no problem, I get multiple pm's too with people who agree with me.

Maybe if you would leave me out of your sarcastic cheap shot comments when you post I wouldn't reply in those threads you mentioned. You see if you look back you took the first shot at me.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

All those excellent oils, developed by professional lubrication engineers, are designed to run in *healthy* engines. When you have an unhealthy engine, an additive designed to target that engine's specific issue *will* do better than the oil alone. That additive will bring that engine back into (or closer to) the target of a *healthy* engine, so the oil can do its job.

Of course, repair is *always* the correct answer, but who's going to do a $2500 repair on a $1200 car? And what about the many people here who have had a CEL shut off (ans stay off) after a $10 additive, when the alternative was a $2500 repait? Well, that sounds like a repair, right there.

I ran PU 0w20 in my Corolla for my last OCI and it was still as light as when it was new 2000 miles later, when it was down 1/2qt. I topped off with 1/2qt of MMO and 750 miles later (yesterday) when I drained that oil, it was black as [censored] and only maybe an ounce of it had burned off. There you have PU, the best cleaning oil on the market right now, doing nothing but burning off in the course of 2000 miles, and MMO coming in and cleaning my oil control rings and oil return holes (8th gen Corolla, look it up if you're not familiar) in the course of 750 miles. Now, I'm not saying the MMO did this all itself, as I've run MMO in this engine alongside PP and RP and not had the same effect, but the PU wasn't effective on its own, either; it was the combination of the two that worked a miracle in my case. I had already bought my current fill of Rotella T6 and was planning on a rebuild after this OCI if that didn't work, switching to RP for my next OCI if it did. Had I not already bought that oil at the 2000 mile mark (750 miles is a long time for me since I don't drive much anymore), meaning I'm way past the return policy, I'd have gone straight to RP, since the cleanup is, as far as I can tell, done now.

No more additives in my engine, as they're no longer needed, MMO has done what I needed it to do. Now it's time to concentrate on my wife's Civic.

Skyship, please, tell me why my engine didn't explode in the last 750 miles.

 

[FoxS]

demarpaint, if I hurt your feelings, then I am sorry.

If I didn't, then I don't know what you're complaining about.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: skyship
The author is an engineer


I'm an engineer, as well, but I don't pontificate on the subject of lubrication (though I do speak from my own experience and the firm grasp of logic that comes with being a software and systems engineer) and expect people to take my word as gospel. Being an engineer doesn't mean s**t, in all honestly; it really just means that when something passes through you and something goes wrong later on down the line, if nobody after you can be blamed it's gonna fall on your shoulders. IT doesn't mean your an expert, it just means you haven't killed anyone... yet.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
All those excellent oils, developed by professional lubrication engineers, are designed to run in *healthy* engines. When you have an unhealthy engine, an additive designed to target that engine's specific issue *will* do better than the oil alone. That additive will bring that engine back into (or closer to) the target of a *healthy* engine, so the oil can do its job.

Of course, repair is *always* the correct answer, but who's going to do a $2500 repair on a $1200 car? And what about the many people here who have had a CEL shut off (ans stay off) after a $10 additive, when the alternative was a $2500 repait? Well, that sounds like a repair, right there.

I ran PU 0w20 in my Corolla for my last OCI and it was still as light as when it was new 2000 miles later, when it was down 1/2qt. I topped off with 1/2qt of MMO and 750 miles later (yesterday) when I drained that oil, it was black as [censored] and only maybe an ounce of it had burned off. There you have PU, the best cleaning oil on the market right now, doing nothing but burning off in the course of 2000 miles, and MMO coming in and cleaning my oil control rings and oil return holes (8th gen Corolla, look it up if you're not familiar) in the course of 750 miles. Now, I'm not saying the MMO did this all itself, as I've run MMO in this engine alongside PP and RP and not had the same effect, but the PU wasn't effective on its own, either; it was the combination of the two that worked a miracle in my case. I had already bought my current fill of Rotella T6 and was planning on a rebuild after this OCI if that didn't work, switching to RP for my next OCI if it did. Had I not already bought that oil at the 2000 mile mark (750 miles is a long time for me since I don't drive much anymore), meaning I'm way past the return policy, I'd have gone straight to RP, since the cleanup is, as far as I can tell, done now.

No more additives in my engine, as they're no longer needed, MMO has done what I needed it to do. Now it's time to concentrate on my wife's Civic.

Skyship, please, tell me why my engine didn't explode in the last 750 miles.


Well said. Now that you're done with MMO no need to tweak your oil anymore, save it for another project/problem. Oil alone can't do everything, sometimes it needs a little tweaking to get a problem solved, which you've already figured out. I'm glad things worked out for you.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: skyship
20 years ago there was much more of a case for snake oil use than there is now, because HM oils and thicker multigrades in particular were not available, but times have changed and you can now buy a good oil that has everything needed for an old engine, a classic car or race car.


Or, you can buy a quality oil in bulk for your entire fleet, for a lot less than all of these tailored oils, and use additives to tailor it where needed. Most of your fleet will probably just get oil, while a few will get MMO, a few will get Restore, a few will get ZDDPlus, etc... It really simplifies fleet management when all your oil comes out of one barrel, through one pump, and you have to open at most one bottle per oil change.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
But Trav and demarpant, with their incredibly stubborn egos, will just refuse to go away. This thread will just go on and in. skyship the Relentless vs Trav and demarpant the Stubborn Duo.


Aww, I'll try harder, since I apparently haven't been noticed yet.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

And in 750 miles... I'd say that stuff worked a miracle this time around. I've used it in the past... a lot.. and never seen anything like this, so (Skyship, this is for you) I'm not saying it's miracle juice or anything, but it was certainly the ingredient that made the difference this time.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: foxs
But Trav and demarpant, with their incredibly stubborn egos, will just refuse to go away

Maybe but its nothing compared to your over inflated ego Moribundman/Mark Stark.
Yes we all know who you are as do your cronies from your little hate site that PM you.

 

[electrolover]

I dont get it. Trav and demarpaint are always helpful to people. Why take shots at em?

 

[skyship]

FIRST PART:
All those excellent oils, developed by professional lubrication engineers, are designed to run in *healthy* engines. When you have an unhealthy engine, an additive designed to target that engine's specific issue *will* do better than the oil alone.

So why do Castrol produce 6 different HM oils that have high detergent, high Zinc, seal conditioners and stop leak additive levels in a well designed balanced add pack??
Castrol, Mobil and Shell do know something about old or faulty engines and if they thought a drive around scourer was a good idea they would make one.

 

[jonny-b]

Castrol, Mobil and Shell do know something about old or faulty engines and if they thought a drive around scourer was a good idea they would make one. [/quote]

It's no doubt that the above-mentioned oil-companies know something, but don't forget that the thing they know most about, is how to sell more oil and how to NOT over-engineer an oil so that it is better than expected!
This is why they won't use the absolute best additives available(also something to do with cost).

It seem like you believe that most oil-companies are Mother Theresa, Skyship. Why?

You also didn't respond to KeMBro2012, and the fact that he had positive results from using MMO. Results that he will never get when using oil alone. Why?