When to use an oil additive.

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Blanket statements are dangerous. If I say that 100% of all high school seniors are excellent students that is obviously not correct. But if I did some research and found out that a certain percentage of high school students were excellent students that would be a more accurate statement.

The same thing with oil supplements. Maybe 90% of all oil supplements are worthless junk. But there may be that 10% of oil supplements that have value.

I can see where an investigator for insurance and warranty claims would want for no oil supplements or cleaners of any sort to be used in new car and truck engines. The car manufacturers, car dealerships, and the warranty claim investigators want for the car or truck or van or SUV to make it through the warranty period. With reasonable OCI oil changes and other necessary maintenance any well built car or truck should make it through the warranty period. No engine flushes, cleaners, or oil supplements needed.

It is interesting to me however that whenever I bought a new car the CAR DEALERSHIPS were always trying to sell various supplements to new car owners, including oil supplements! Maybe Skyship needs to investigate that, since he is so determined to eliminate all oil supplements and engine cleaners. Now it has been a while since I bought a new car-2004. But that dealership was promoting BG products, including the BG oil supplement.

I always tried to use quality oil supplements and cleaners. My current car has 106,000 miles on it. I have not destroyed an engine yet with an oil supplement. I have used mostly quality motor oil but I did use a few oil supplements and I have used a nonsolvent engine flush. The engine still runs. It runs very good with no apparent oil consumption. So I guess I did something right.


What I'd like to add, is this. Blanket statements, and one size fits all can be dangerous. Flame suit on.

 

[Mystic]

Yes, there is one guy here who makes a lot of blanket statements about ALL oil supplements and ALL engine cleaners. But I think there is a big difference between some quality oil supplements and the typical lower quality oil supplement. And I think that there is a big difference between a good quality engine cleaner, flush or drive around cleaner, compared to a poor quality one.

I wish we could get back to discussing oil additives here in the oil additive section, without somebody attacking people who happen to like a certain oil supplement like MMO or Kreen. The only way we are going to find something out about these various oil supplements and cleaners is for people who have used them to discuss them here.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Mystic


I wish we could get back to discussing oil additives here in the oil additive section, without somebody attacking people who happen to like a certain oil supplement like MMO or Kreen. The only way we are going to find something out about these various oil supplements and cleaners is for people who have used them to discuss them here.


A discussion involves both pros and cons. You, and a couple of others, have made it clear you don't want the cons. The only discussion you want is all feel good anecdotes. And you attack people who don't accept anecdotes.

I remember a recent post of how proud this person was about how we went after synlube. A product in which anecdotes without any substance, proof, if you will, were not accepted. Those are the days you should long for.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Mystic


I wish we could get back to discussing oil additives here in the oil additive section, without somebody attacking people who happen to like a certain oil supplement like MMO or Kreen. The only way we are going to find something out about these various oil supplements and cleaners is for people who have used them to discuss them here.


A discussion involves both pros and cons. You, and a couple of others, have made it clear you don't want the cons. The only discussion you want is all feel good anecdotes. And you attack people who don't accept anecdotes.

I remember a recent post of how proud this person was about how we went after synlube. A product in which anecdotes without any substance, proof, if you will, were not accepted. Those are the days you should long for.


Reckon maybe your just a little disgruntled at how everyone shuns Auto-Rx?

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Mystic


I wish we could get back to discussing oil additives here in the oil additive section, without somebody attacking people who happen to like a certain oil supplement like MMO or Kreen. The only way we are going to find something out about these various oil supplements and cleaners is for people who have used them to discuss them here.


A discussion involves both pros and cons. You, and a couple of others, have made it clear you don't want the cons. The only discussion you want is all feel good anecdotes. And you attack people who don't accept anecdotes.

I remember a recent post of how proud this person was about how we went after synlube. A product in which anecdotes without any substance, proof, if you will, were not accepted. Those are the days you should long for.


Yet when the same people who talk about wanting substance and proof are faced with the actual mathematics and chemistry involved, they point to the words of additive manufacturer employees who, indeed, have not shown their work. We see the product, but Deity-forbid we make any attempt to question how that product came to be, or try to discern this for ourselves.

The kind of discussion you say we should be longing for is the very kind of discussion I keep seeing people *try* to start here. Every single time, I see you, or someone like you come in and break it up, then spout off some statement like you just did.

I've lurked here for years, I know how great this forum used to be. I remember people like you getting banned fairly quickly, so real discussion could continue. I didn't noticed the changes until after I joined.

We don't mind hearing the cons, but we want, as you said, substance and proof. All you've given us so far is a bunch of "so and so (who just so happens to work for such and such company) has done the work and they say blah blah" but I ask you: Where's the work? Don't point us to some paid shill's word that he did the work and found such and such. Show us the work. Put up or, well, you know the saying.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Put up or, well, you know the saying.


The odds of him shutting up are slim to none. He's on a mission to dump in any thread that mentions Kreen or MMO. He's more likely to dump in an MMO thread though. It irks him that so many people had success with the product, so the only ammo he has remaining is to ask for proof. If you view him as entertaining, and good for a few laughs it makes dealing with him a pleasure, and a good way to pass time when working from home and frequenting Bitog like I do. YMMV

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If you view him as entertaining, and good for a few laughs it makes dealing with him a pleasure, and a good way to pass time when working from home and frequenting Bitog like I do. YMMV


Oh, I do. My writing style often comes across like I'm getting worked up or angry, but I'm really laughing my [censored] off at the idiocy of it all. At the same time, I'm trying to improve myself, which is why I even bother; if someone *shows* me that I'm wrong about something, I accept it and start working to correct my understanding. That doesn't happen much anymore, because I've been doing it my whole life.

I welcome well-formed arguments against my positions; I think we all should (and most of us do). It's the "you're wrong, this guy says so, if you want to know *why* you're wrong, do the research yourself" arguments that make me laugh my [censored] off, though. I've already done the research, it's how I came to my conclusion in the first place. If someone else did the same research and came to a different conclusion they're gonna have to show me how they got there -- if they're not willing to, they're afraid of being shown that they're wrong; if they're not able to, they're lying about having done it in the first place.

We all make mistakes and I'm a good number of my beliefs have been turned on their heads quite simply by someone with an opposing belief going a step beyond telling me I'm wrong and actually showing me *why* I'm wrong. Like I said, this doesn't happen much anymore, though people do still quite often try to *tell* me I'm wrong. The irony is that, even if they're right, their unwillingness to show how they came to their conclusion just reinforces how wrong *they* are.

That is to say "even if all we have is anecdotes, it's still more than you've got -- if we've got hard numbers and facts, you'd better have your own to show how ours our wrong if you're going to make that claim".

 

[electrolover]

You love to type dont you. Its like all your replies are novels

thats cool though. What ever floats your boat

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Its weird that some oils are dropping moly levels and others are raising it. CS is down on moly in the sn version, but PYB has high moly in SN, where they didnt use it at all in the past.



Mobil or infinium has developed a tri-nuclear moly. They only need a fraction of it to achieve the same friction modifying levels. So in some oils it's trending down because they need less.
And some companies have abandoned it and gone to titanium and boron and such. I think it has to do with cost and supply to be honest.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012

That is to say "even if all we have is anecdotes, it's still more than you've got -- if we've got hard numbers and facts, you'd better have your own to show how ours our wrong if you're going to make that claim".


LOL and there lies Trajan's problem, he has nothing, all he can do is ask for facts, then try and muddy the waters when things don't go his way. It kills him to see how many people had success stories, each and everyone of us with a success story is either a liar, nuts, or collecting a check from Turtle Wax or Kano Labs......

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Hey, I don't type any more than anyone else here, I just put it all in fewer posts!

 

[Mystic]

What is really funny is that Trajan himself had success with MMO. So why now does he attack it? If he had success with MMO in the past how can he now say that it is worthless?

I understand that he is now a big Auto-RX supporter. That is fine, he can like whatever product he wants to like. But we can expect the same amount of proof from him that Auto-RX works that he expects from the MMO and Kreen users. It is a two way street.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Succes with, or payment from? Just sayin'.

 

[Mystic]

I believe in being 100% honest. No matter what people think nowadays in the modern world I think the honest people win in the end.

I used to be a big Auto-RX fan. I tried the stuff and seriously, it seemed to stop a small seal leak on a car I used to own. It would be dishonest for me to say otherwise. It may really have value as a product that can stop some seal leaks.

Now does Auto-RX clean the inside of engines? I don't know. I kept waiting here for somebody to provide definite proof and it never seemed to come. What turned me off from Auto-RX was some stuff that happened here in the past which I don't really want to discuss.

But you don't see me completely switching from one position to the other. I observed Auto-RX apparently stop a small seal leak. That is the truth. At least the seal leak stopped after I had done an Auto-RX cleaning. Heck, seeing that seal leak stopped was really the main reason I started to really like Auto-RX. I moved away from Auto-RX after some unpleasant stuff that happened here. And also nobody ever seemed to be able to supply decent proof that Auto-RX really worked.

If somebody had a small seal leak that was not caused by physical damage to a seal, I would actually be willing to recommend trying Auto-RX to stop small seal leaks. It worked for me. At least the seal leak stopped after I used Auto-RX. That is the truth.

I moved on from Auto-RX. But I will never be dishonest that it actually seemed to have some value (in stopping seal leaks). So you do not see me completely switching from one position to the other. Now I can change my mind about something. But when somebody had a lot of praise for some product in the past and now slams that product every chance they get, I wonder about that.

 

[electrolover]

Did the leak ever come back? I wonder if the effects of an ester would be temporary and then the seals would reharden when its all gone

 

[Mystic]

I don't own that car anymore. But after I did the Auto-RX cleaning the seal leak stopped and for the rest of the time I owned the car it never came back.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Mystic


I wish we could get back to discussing oil additives here in the oil additive section, without somebody attacking people who happen to like a certain oil supplement like MMO or Kreen. The only way we are going to find something out about these various oil supplements and cleaners is for people who have used them to discuss them here.


A discussion involves both pros and cons. You, and a couple of others, have made it clear you don't want the cons. The only discussion you want is all feel good anecdotes. And you attack people who don't accept anecdotes.

I remember a recent post of how proud this person was about how we went after synlube. A product in which anecdotes without any substance, proof, if you will, were not accepted. Those are the days you should long for.


Reckon maybe your just a little disgruntled at how everyone shuns Auto-Rx?


Reckon maybe you don't understand that I haven't used it in 1 year, 9 months, 28 days as of this post.

 

[electrolover]

I dont care if you use it or not. But it seems like people who dig arx and folks who like other adds are always bickering. Use whatever you want and voice your opinions, but we should all be respectful to each other....myself included.

I have not tryed arx yet, but I would like to put it to my own test someday. That being said Frank is nasty and his site is well set up to sell product.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
I dont care if you use it or not. But it seems like people who dig arx and folks who like other adds are always bickering. Use whatever you want and voice your opinions, but we should all be respectful to each other....myself included.

I have not tryed arx yet, but I would like to put it to my own test someday. That being said Frank is nasty and his site is well set up to sell product.


Reckon that if you didn't, you would not of brought it up. Especially quoting a message of mine in which I never metioned the product.

Reckon that if you do try it, you should ask your self what perceived problem you're trying to solve. Then ask yourself what you think the oil formulators left out that would make you want to try it.

I used it in a 97 Camaro back years ago. Did free the rings, compression went up. Used it in the BMW to fix a problem that mmo failed to keep fixed. (Something one poster always forgets/ignores.)

So FM has a nasty side. So what. The MMO pushers, as the late Gary Allan pointed out, get the same way.

So how did your road trip back to Texas go? Running pyb/kreen, changing oil every 500 miles?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Did the leak ever come back? I wonder if the effects of an ester would be temporary and then the seals would reharden when its all gone


Good one. I wonder if you could maintain em with high mileage oil?