This is more fun than the bowl game I was watching.
When did Redline get weak in the Knee's??????
- Thread starter JohnBrowning
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Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Try to keep up now. If you start with more of something then reduce those level it is now weaker. I would not imagine that is a hard concept to grasp.
Maybe they substituted another ingredient that makes for a better formulation. Redline is darn good oil and I really don't for a minute believe that you or I know more than they do. I could see Mobil, Pennzoil or other big names cheapening out the formulas for profits, but not Redline - they build their business on reputation and performance. So even if the formula changed on that ONE type of oil - they have others to still meet your needs and more.
Try to keep up now. If you start with more of something then reduce those level it is now weaker. I would not imagine that is a hard concept to grasp.
Maybe they substituted another ingredient that makes for a better formulation. Redline is darn good oil and I really don't for a minute believe that you or I know more than they do. I could see Mobil, Pennzoil or other big names cheapening out the formulas for profits, but not Redline - they build their business on reputation and performance. So even if the formula changed on that ONE type of oil - they have others to still meet your needs and more.
You're bringing facts into this discussion.....is that allowed here?
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
This is truly a worthless thread and I once again find myself agreeing with Doug Hillary; whom I hope to meet when I take my Unimog camper to Australia next year.
JB: Read SAE Technical Article 2000-01-2949 "Preventing Catastrophic Camshaft Lobe Failures in Low Emission diesel Engines". I draw your attention to p.8. Mo dithiophosphate (definitely NOT a solid when dissolved in oil!!) causes corrosion and failure of the bronze pin in roller camshaft and injector driver bearings. The article states that the majority of US made diesel engines over 10L have bronze pins.
I can't copy the article because it's copy-protected, but you can pay $15 to download it.
Maybe that's why Redline has no Mo in 5W40 oil? The compound seen in rotten bronze pins in these failures was CuS1.8; the majority of moly compounds in lube oils are sulfides of some sort. Mo appears to be an avid S donor to Cu in bronze.
Charlie
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
This is truly a worthless thread and I once again find myself agreeing with Doug Hillary; whom I hope to meet when I take my Unimog camper to Australia next year.
JB: Read SAE Technical Article 2000-01-2949 "Preventing Catastrophic Camshaft Lobe Failures in Low Emission diesel Engines". I draw your attention to p.8. Mo dithiophosphate (definitely NOT a solid when dissolved in oil!!) causes corrosion and failure of the bronze pin in roller camshaft and injector driver bearings. The article states that the majority of US made diesel engines over 10L have bronze pins.
I can't copy the article because it's copy-protected, but you can pay $15 to download it.
Maybe that's why Redline has no Mo in 5W40 oil? The compound seen in rotten bronze pins in these failures was CuS1.8; the majority of moly compounds in lube oils are sulfides of some sort. Mo appears to be an avid S donor to Cu in bronze.
Charlie
lovin Redline here for our weather forcast
Customer Name : Pancheri
Oil Brand/Weight : Redline 5w-40
Type Equipment : VW GTI 1.8T
Miles/Hours on oil : 7200
Total Miles/Hours : 22085
Results ppm/%
Wear
Copper 8
Iron 9
Chromium 0
Lead 1
Aluminum 8
Silicon 5
Tin 0
Additives
Molybdenum 551
Sodium 14
Magnesium 15
Zinc 1200
Potassium 3
Phosphorus 1140
Calcium 2390
Redline New Formula per UOA from https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-5w-40-2003-bmw-330ci.122477/
Moly 0
Sodium 0
Boron 0
Calcium 2452
Phos 988
Zink 1282
Barium 0
So simple math tells us that we have about the same Calcium, ZDDP but close to a 600ppm lose of moly from the formula. Sodium and Magnesium are fairly close with a slight increase in mag. So everything is about the same except they deleted close to 600ppm of a combo anti-oxidant,EP and friction reducing additive. So any time you have less then you started with that is a reduction and weakling of the additive package. They did not add anything to take the place of the close to 600ppm of moly normally found in the formula.
Compare to RTS UOA from https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/shell-rotella-t-syn-6975-miles-86-buick-3-8.121354/
Moly 27
Zink 1293
I used UOA because we did not have VOA that are up to date for all the oils concerned. I tried to select UOA. I figured this way we had all apples and no oranges….The VOA’s are also all over the place for each oil.
No compare the old Formula Redline to the New Formula…..No compare it to RTS or any other 5W40 diesel oil and look how they are almost copy cat’s of each other with regard to general formula’s not ppm’s for ppm’s each is a tad different.
Nothing that I said is based in opinion you cannot take away 600ppm of a multipurpose additive from an oil leave everything else the same with nothing making up for the deletions and have anything but a weaker oil! It now looks like all the other OTC 5W40 and 15W40……..So no opinions just facts…….If it was right before then what is it now? If it was a formula flaw then why did they keep the other oils besides 5W40 and 15W40 the same as before? You cannot “eat your cake and have it too!!!” it was either close to perfect before or all the other oils are seriously flawed???? SO which is it! The alternative is they changed it for marketing purpose’s in the hope of selling more oil to a specific market which is 1 ton and lighter diesel owners!
Oil Brand/Weight : Redline 5w-40
Type Equipment : VW GTI 1.8T
Miles/Hours on oil : 7200
Total Miles/Hours : 22085
Results ppm/%
Wear
Copper 8
Iron 9
Chromium 0
Lead 1
Aluminum 8
Silicon 5
Tin 0
Additives
Molybdenum 551
Sodium 14
Magnesium 15
Zinc 1200
Potassium 3
Phosphorus 1140
Calcium 2390
Redline New Formula per UOA from https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-5w-40-2003-bmw-330ci.122477/
Moly 0
Sodium 0
Boron 0
Calcium 2452
Phos 988
Zink 1282
Barium 0
So simple math tells us that we have about the same Calcium, ZDDP but close to a 600ppm lose of moly from the formula. Sodium and Magnesium are fairly close with a slight increase in mag. So everything is about the same except they deleted close to 600ppm of a combo anti-oxidant,EP and friction reducing additive. So any time you have less then you started with that is a reduction and weakling of the additive package. They did not add anything to take the place of the close to 600ppm of moly normally found in the formula.
Compare to RTS UOA from https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/shell-rotella-t-syn-6975-miles-86-buick-3-8.121354/
Moly 27
Zink 1293
I used UOA because we did not have VOA that are up to date for all the oils concerned. I tried to select UOA. I figured this way we had all apples and no oranges….The VOA’s are also all over the place for each oil.
No compare the old Formula Redline to the New Formula…..No compare it to RTS or any other 5W40 diesel oil and look how they are almost copy cat’s of each other with regard to general formula’s not ppm’s for ppm’s each is a tad different.
Nothing that I said is based in opinion you cannot take away 600ppm of a multipurpose additive from an oil leave everything else the same with nothing making up for the deletions and have anything but a weaker oil! It now looks like all the other OTC 5W40 and 15W40……..So no opinions just facts…….If it was right before then what is it now? If it was a formula flaw then why did they keep the other oils besides 5W40 and 15W40 the same as before? You cannot “eat your cake and have it too!!!” it was either close to perfect before or all the other oils are seriously flawed???? SO which is it! The alternative is they changed it for marketing purpose’s in the hope of selling more oil to a specific market which is 1 ton and lighter diesel owners!
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