When did Redline get weak in the Knee's??????

[priler]

JB,now you know the boat that i am in.i agree with everything you have said 100%.it doesn't matter to me how many people put there stamp of approval on an idea.it is ALL guessing at this point.

IF i had seen a complete reformulating on RL 5w-40,then i would be less inclined as to weather i should continue to use it or not.for example,motul 300v 5w-40,going from memory,did a bit of reformulating some time ago.you could clearly see some levels of additives go down but others go up(including,amine alkaryle in their msds,which does not show up on UOA),BUT that is NOT what i am noticing with RL 5w-40.all i see is a clear and total lack of moly(actually 3 ppm) and a slight reduction of Ph and ZN.in other words,cutting the legs(add pack)right from under you.weak knees indeed.it seems to me the last line of defence is weaker now.(especially considering the competitive nature of esters)

i still have not contacted RL because i am still some way from my next OCI but i know what is in there now(engines) is the "old" formula.also,it may be possible that the current formula is just an interum so i would prefer to contact them when i am ready.

as of right now,my thinking is #1-switch to RL 10w-40 or #2-a totally different brand.....but i am not done processing all the information yet,it's too early.

everything right now,imo,is just guessing on everyones part no matter what they say,but from what little i do see,my prefered 5w-40 has indeed changed and for my application,not necessarily for the better.(a simplistic attempt to meet ash level CJ-4)

 

[Ben99GT]

Somebody should send Dave or Roy Howell from Redline a link to this thread, if they decided to post it could be interesting.

 

[qship1996]

I am sure Redline cut the moly in the 5w-40 diesel rated oil for a good reason.....sure was not to save $$$$ or they would have cut it on one{or all} of their vastly more popular{bigger selling} weights

I trust Dave & Roy on their decisions, as they have always put quality ahead of pricing.

 

[ottotheclown]

Hey just call Redline they will explain away all that confusion.

 

[SLCraig]

Use something else?

 

[priler]

imo,no one comes even close(9-$11),for what your getting,compared to RL,especially when you have an 8 qrt sump and more than 1 car.

ps:the change in motul 300v that i mentioned before had NOTHING to do with diesels but they sure did show sophistication in the add change.

 

[BobFout]

Does every additive show up in a $20 VOA? (Those in the know say no). This is true of many of the better high tech oils.

 

[simple_gifts]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Somebody should send Dave or Roy Howell from Redline a link to this thread, if they decided to post it could be interesting.


If a question as to why the moly was removed and what was done to compensate for the reduced AW was professionally put, perhaps, but all it see is a rant questioning RL's motivation, ability and integrity.

 

[buster]

This thread is beyond ridiculous. If you're so hung on an oil with moly, use their 0w40 or 10w40.

Redline is not a company that cuts corners. They satisfy a very small niche market and always aim to use the best ingredients out there.

 

[JohnBrowning]

It might well still do a great job but why weaken a product to make marketing it easier? IN my mind that is backwards as can be. Maybe I spent too many years in a Miltary envirnoment but normaly if something is working you do not fix it until the mission changes and you have to "improve" on something. If they had completly reformulated from top to bottom I might be a little less critical of them. I have a lot of experince with the old 5W40 and all of it was positive. I no longer own my own business but I would never sacrifice the products ability to produce results to make it easier to market!

On top of it all it shows a lack of integrity. When the owner of Amsoil died simalar things started going one eith reguard to marketing. Amsoil now calls their GIII product 100% synthetic which is something the old guy would never in a million years have gone for!Marketing at it's best!The parts in car do not respond to marketing jus chemistry. The additive package of Redline is what sets them apart. Few people really need a POE base stock oil that has a flash point of 514 F but they can definately see results from the add pack. When you move away from what made you or your market share what it is you alienate long time buyer's.Integrity is what sets a small company apart from a large one with out I might as well OTC!

When you can not tell two products apart you buy the cheaper one. If their 5W40 is going to look like Rotella-T 5W40 then I can save about $23 a gallon plus shipping and just buy RTS at Walmart!

 

[qship1996]

How does it "make marketing it easier"? Redline never promoted moly level changes in the 5w-40

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

It might well still do a great job but why weaken a product to make marketing it easier?


What evidence do you have that it is weaker?

John, honestly, you are expecting us to accept the fact that you know more about RL oil formulation than Roy (et al)

 

[BobFout]

Hm, April 1st is 3 months off.

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

It might well still do a great job but why weaken a product to make marketing it easier?


What evidence do you have that it is weaker?

John, honestly, you are expecting us to accept the fact that you know more about RL oil formulation than Roy (et al)



he doesnt have any evidence,zero,nadda.

He's making a thread like this totally worthless.

 

[nfs480]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
It might well still do a great job but why weaken a product to make marketing it easier? IN my mind that is backwards as can be. Maybe I spent too many years in a Miltary envirnoment but normaly if something is working you do not fix it until the mission changes and you have to "improve" on something. If they had completly reformulated from top to bottom I might be a little less critical of them. I have a lot of experince with the old 5W40 and all of it was positive. I no longer own my own business but I would never sacrifice the products ability to produce results to make it easier to market!

On top of it all it shows a lack of integrity. When the owner of Amsoil died simalar things started going one eith reguard to marketing. Amsoil now calls their GIII product 100% synthetic which is something the old guy would never in a million years have gone for!Marketing at it's best!The parts in car do not respond to marketing jus chemistry. The additive package of Redline is what sets them apart. Few people really need a POE base stock oil that has a flash point of 514 F but they can definately see results from the add pack. When you move away from what made you or your market share what it is you alienate long time buyer's.Integrity is what sets a small company apart from a large one with out I might as well OTC!

When you can not tell two products apart you buy the cheaper one. If their 5W40 is going to look like Rotella-T 5W40 then I can save about $23 a gallon plus shipping and just buy RTS at Walmart!


When did the owner of amsoil die?

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: nfs480
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
It might well still do a great job but why weaken a product to make marketing it easier? IN my mind that is backwards as can be. Maybe I spent too many years in a Miltary envirnoment but normaly if something is working you do not fix it until the mission changes and you have to "improve" on something. If they had completly reformulated from top to bottom I might be a little less critical of them. I have a lot of experince with the old 5W40 and all of it was positive. I no longer own my own business but I would never sacrifice the products ability to produce results to make it easier to market!

On top of it all it shows a lack of integrity. When the owner of Amsoil died simalar things started going one eith reguard to marketing. Amsoil now calls their GIII product 100% synthetic which is something the old guy would never in a million years have gone for!Marketing at it's best!The parts in car do not respond to marketing jus chemistry. The additive package of Redline is what sets them apart. Few people really need a POE base stock oil that has a flash point of 514 F but they can definately see results from the add pack. When you move away from what made you or your market share what it is you alienate long time buyer's.Integrity is what sets a small company apart from a large one with out I might as well OTC!

When you can not tell two products apart you buy the cheaper one. If their 5W40 is going to look like Rotella-T 5W40 then I can save about $23 a gallon plus shipping and just buy RTS at Walmart!


When did the owner of amsoil die?


I wondered that too. Al Amatuzio is alive and well.

http://www.amsoil.com/company.aspx

 

[Rand]

JB obviously forgot his meds again.. any posts he starts with 10 misspellings means his brain is overrunning his fingers and all his posts turn into hard to read and even harder to follow rants.

This thread is utterly useless and needs something besides hearsay posted. If you want moly just buy some and add it.

or use any of their other non diesel oils that have it.

There is no evidence that they didnt replace the moly with some other additive thats organic in nature..etc etc etc

 

[JohnBrowning]

Try to keep up now. If you start with more of something then reduce those level it is now weaker. I would not imagine that is a hard concept to grasp. If I normaly sell you sulferic acid at $10 a quart that is mixed at 30% Sulfuric acid by volume and later sell you the same product but at a concentration of 15% Sulferic acid by volume it is now a weaker product. The lowered all of aditive levels includeing ZDDP. The only additive that is the same or higher is calcium.THey deleted most of the other additives entirely so since it has less additives then it had before it is now weaker. If you can not understand the word "weaker" both words are in my Webster's and are easily defined and read doI need to type Webster's definition of weaker? I amnot going to play a symantics game with someone that is in all other ways a smart person fully able to under stand the definition and concept of the word weaker when discusing chemical concentrations as contained in fully formulated motor oil! If you want to talk in circle maybe a conversation with the current press secratary for the president is in order as he likes to play symantic games and ignore facts.....I amnot a spin doctor this is oil we are discussing and chemistry is not opinion based ppm's are rather scientific and exacting. My UOA says it all about the old formula.

That is one of the problems with this world no one wants to admit that their such things as facts and universal truths. THese types think that you can talk enough to make 0=10! ppms do not lie. If you take away something it is gone and not coming back! SO rocket scientists if not to market towards the 1 ton diesel crowd by removing the molly and coping OTC diesel additive packages why did they only change two oils????? THe only two changed where 5W40 and 15W40 their only diesel oils aimed at non-commerical diesels. No fleet on earth is going to pay $10.95 a quart for their fleet oil this is for light duty diesels like 1 ton pickups and smaller! Impress me with some clever deductive reasoning????

Have even bother tolook at the old additive package and compare it to the current one? I am going to guess not or you wouldunderstand the concept of weaker aditive package....Weaker is not anopinion it is printedin black and white.

 

[m37charlie]

This is truly a worthless thread and I once again find myself agreeing with Doug Hillary; whom I hope to meet when I take my Unimog camper to Australia next year.
JB: Read SAE Technical Article 2000-01-2949 "Preventing Catastrophic Camshaft Lobe Failures in Low Emission diesel Engines". I draw your attention to p.8. Mo dithiophosphate (definitely NOT a solid when dissolved in oil!!) causes corrosion and failure of the bronze pin in roller camshaft and injector driver bearings. The article states that the majority of US made diesel engines over 10L have bronze pins.
I can't copy the article because it's copy-protected, but you can pay $15 to download it.
Maybe that's why Redline has no Mo in 5W40 oil? The compound seen in rotten bronze pins in these failures was CuS1.8; the majority of moly compounds in lube oils are sulfides of some sort. Mo appears to be an avid S donor to Cu in bronze.

Charlie

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Jason2007
I think the various oil companies know more about oil than any of us who post on here. I think we should leave the formulas to the scientists and not these so-called internet experts.
Internet experts rule!!!