I see LOTS of other grease threads here in the first 10 pages or so, but hardly anything for actual wheel bearings. I'm about to do front wheel bearings in my truck, and before I go off and just order Redline grease (which probably is about the best) I wanted to know if there's something I can get locally thats going to be close-ish. I knew a few race teams that take OEM new BMW wheel bearings, disassemble, re-pack with Redline, and get significantly higher service life from them. Thoughts?
Wheel bearing Grease?
- Thread starter KenO
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Wheel bearing grease is high speed grease vs chassis grease which is not. But many of today's excellent greases are both. I would get the best grease Valvoline sells locally.
I am not sure I buy the Redline and higher service life story. I think keeping dirt and water out of bearings is the key rather than grease quality.
I am not sure I buy the Redline and higher service life story. I think keeping dirt and water out of bearings is the key rather than grease quality.
What vehicle are you greasing and what is the use?
For general purpose / racing I would probably go with Amsoil Racing grease.
I have CAT Desert Gold in the fronts of my Ranger with no issues.
For general purpose / racing I would probably go with Amsoil Racing grease.
I have CAT Desert Gold in the fronts of my Ranger with no issues.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Wheel bearing grease is high speed grease vs chassis grease which is not. But many of today's excellent greases are both. I would get the best grease Valvoline sells locally.
I am not sure I buy the Redline and higher service life story. I think keeping dirt and water out of bearings is the key rather than grease quality.
OEM BMW wheel bearings these teams were seeing 2-3 races before wheel bearing failure. Disassembling, removing 'new' OE grease from a brand new wheel bearing and switching to Redline grease is getting them more than an entire season of use. They're now replacing wheel bearings once a season as part of the PM service instead of worrying about having to DNF due to a failed wheel bearing. Keep in mind, these were teams with 6-figures invested in chassis development alone for club racing purposes.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
What vehicle are you greasing and what is the use?
For general purpose / racing I would probably go with Amsoil Racing grease.
I have CAT Desert Gold in the fronts of my Ranger with no issues.
This is a '97 Chevy C2500.
Wheel bearing grease is high speed grease vs chassis grease which is not. But many of today's excellent greases are both. I would get the best grease Valvoline sells locally.
I am not sure I buy the Redline and higher service life story. I think keeping dirt and water out of bearings is the key rather than grease quality.
OEM BMW wheel bearings these teams were seeing 2-3 races before wheel bearing failure. Disassembling, removing 'new' OE grease from a brand new wheel bearing and switching to Redline grease is getting them more than an entire season of use. They're now replacing wheel bearings once a season as part of the PM service instead of worrying about having to DNF due to a failed wheel bearing. Keep in mind, these were teams with 6-figures invested in chassis development alone for club racing purposes.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
What vehicle are you greasing and what is the use?
For general purpose / racing I would probably go with Amsoil Racing grease.
I have CAT Desert Gold in the fronts of my Ranger with no issues.
This is a '97 Chevy C2500.
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Actually here's a thread showing the process:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sho...ighlight=grease
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sho...ighlight=grease
I recently chose Valvoline Synpower grease at Advance for my Nissan's front wheel bearings. I did some searching here and it seemed like a good mix of performance/price/availability.
Buy online with discount code for the best deal.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...alvoline+grease
Buy online with discount code for the best deal.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...alvoline+grease
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I recently chose Valvoline Synpower grease at Advance for my Nissan's front wheel bearings. I did some searching here and it seemed like a good mix of performance/price/availability.
Buy online with discount code for the best deal.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...alvoline+grease
Thanks. Seems like most any high-temp, high moly synthetic grease like this will do. I'm not personally a fan of lithium-based greases. Thanks!
I recently chose Valvoline Synpower grease at Advance for my Nissan's front wheel bearings. I did some searching here and it seemed like a good mix of performance/price/availability.
Buy online with discount code for the best deal.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...alvoline+grease
Thanks. Seems like most any high-temp, high moly synthetic grease like this will do. I'm not personally a fan of lithium-based greases. Thanks!
Originally Posted By: KenO
Seems like most any high-temp, high moly synthetic grease like this will do. I'm not personally a fan of lithium-based greases.
Valvoline SynPower grease is lithium-based.
Seems like most any high-temp, high moly synthetic grease like this will do. I'm not personally a fan of lithium-based greases.
Valvoline SynPower grease is lithium-based.
Kestas
Staff member
When it comes to wheel bearings, too much emphasis is put on the grease, and not enough on other variables. I have never seen a wheel bearing fail due to the choice of grease, as long as the grease is reasonably specified, which would typically be a Grade 2, high temperature resistant grease with EP additives.
But I have seen bearings fail because of water intrusion, which is the most common failure mechanism. More emphasis should be put on seal replacement than brand of grease.
Secondary to that is the cleanliness of the bearing cavity. If any dirt or contaminants should fall into the bearing cavity, that dirt will damage the raceway surface, then get milled into the grease and perhaps compromise its lubricating properties.
I'm not sure why the choice of grease helped the BMW racing teams. It really depends on what the failure mechanism was for these bearings. The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease. Typically, race teams want the lowest viscosity they can get away with to give them the "edge", but still last the race. If that's your driving pattern, then it makes sense to use something with more temperature resistance.
I don't consider wheel bearings "high speed" bearings.
But I have seen bearings fail because of water intrusion, which is the most common failure mechanism. More emphasis should be put on seal replacement than brand of grease.
Secondary to that is the cleanliness of the bearing cavity. If any dirt or contaminants should fall into the bearing cavity, that dirt will damage the raceway surface, then get milled into the grease and perhaps compromise its lubricating properties.
I'm not sure why the choice of grease helped the BMW racing teams. It really depends on what the failure mechanism was for these bearings. The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease. Typically, race teams want the lowest viscosity they can get away with to give them the "edge", but still last the race. If that's your driving pattern, then it makes sense to use something with more temperature resistance.
I don't consider wheel bearings "high speed" bearings.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease.
Higher use of brakes than OEM intended?
The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease.
Higher use of brakes than OEM intended?
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease.
Higher use of brakes than OEM intended?
Both braking and cornering forces well in excess of 1.G, as well as the significant loads these forces place upon a chassis running slicks. Head generation from the brakes making it's way into the hubs. OEM brakes aren't going to see 1200*F+ temps repeatedly, lap after lap, like a racecar will.
It was kind of 'beaten' into me as a kid watching what my dad did and used. I know, conventional wisdom and not science, BUT - what he did worked, for his uses. For chassis grease - it was Kendall SuperBlue, and he had significantly fewer parts failures than people running other 'lesser' greases. And Chicago Rawhide seals, never saw one fail, while I saw National oil seals fail often. So, to this day, i run SKF 'green' CR seals ONLY. It's one of those situations where I KNOW they're a well built seal, regardless if the other will work or not. He sued FRAM filters exclusively though too, but you won't catch me dead using one of those...
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease.
Higher use of brakes than OEM intended?
Both braking and cornering forces well in excess of 1.G, as well as the significant loads these forces place upon a chassis running slicks. Head generation from the brakes making it's way into the hubs. OEM brakes aren't going to see 1200*F+ temps repeatedly, lap after lap, like a racecar will.
It was kind of 'beaten' into me as a kid watching what my dad did and used. I know, conventional wisdom and not science, BUT - what he did worked, for his uses. For chassis grease - it was Kendall SuperBlue, and he had significantly fewer parts failures than people running other 'lesser' greases. And Chicago Rawhide seals, never saw one fail, while I saw National oil seals fail often. So, to this day, i run SKF 'green' CR seals ONLY. It's one of those situations where I KNOW they're a well built seal, regardless if the other will work or not. He sued FRAM filters exclusively though too, but you won't catch me dead using one of those...
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease.
Higher use of brakes than OEM intended?
The use of more race oriented tires, whether it be something with >100 treadwear or a full racing slick, puts HUGE loading on the wheel bearings. I know guys that run Mustangs will bring 4 extra front wheel bearings on a race weekend because they absolutely destroy their stock ones. Running brake cooling ducting helps, but slicks make supposedly robust components fail prematurely.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The only thing I can imagine is that the original grease could not withstand the high temperatures developed during the race, and they went with a more temperture-resistant grease.
Higher use of brakes than OEM intended?
The use of more race oriented tires, whether it be something with >100 treadwear or a full racing slick, puts HUGE loading on the wheel bearings. I know guys that run Mustangs will bring 4 extra front wheel bearings on a race weekend because they absolutely destroy their stock ones. Running brake cooling ducting helps, but slicks make supposedly robust components fail prematurely.
Originally Posted By: skellyman
It used to be car mfg's used to recommend aluminum complex greases for high temp uses , but with improvements in the oils used in grease this is not as critical as it once was.
Actually a lot of high temp wheel bearing greases were bentone (clay) based/thickened.
Redline CV2 is a calcium sulfonate thickened grease and I'm not sure what NEO's HP 800 has as a soap. FWIW HP 800 is an NLGI 1 grease, not a #2 as most car wheel bearing greases are.
There's a reason lots of endurance race cars around the world use HP800 in wheel bearings.
Very few/any other greases can cope with the temps/speeds/loads.
It used to be car mfg's used to recommend aluminum complex greases for high temp uses , but with improvements in the oils used in grease this is not as critical as it once was.
Actually a lot of high temp wheel bearing greases were bentone (clay) based/thickened.
Redline CV2 is a calcium sulfonate thickened grease and I'm not sure what NEO's HP 800 has as a soap. FWIW HP 800 is an NLGI 1 grease, not a #2 as most car wheel bearing greases are.
There's a reason lots of endurance race cars around the world use HP800 in wheel bearings.
Very few/any other greases can cope with the temps/speeds/loads.
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I recently chose Valvoline Synpower grease at Advance for my Nissan's front wheel bearings. I did some searching here and it seemed like a good mix of performance/price/availability.
Buy online with discount code for the best deal.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...alvoline+grease
Thanks. Seems like most any high-temp, high moly synthetic grease like this will do. I'm not personally a fan of lithium-based greases. Thanks!
You are confusing three things. Grease is a mixture of a thickener, oil, and additives. The lithium base is one common thickener. The oil can be syn, conventional, or a blend. Moly can be one of the additives. So, there are many lithium base synthetic oil moly greases. Dye is also often added to greases. Red, blue, green, I've seen orange--just marketing.
The National Lubricating Grease Institute has established the standards for grease. If it carries the GC standard, it is suitable for wheel bearings. If it is labeled LB, it is suitable for chassis lube. Many greases are labeled LB-GC for both usages.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I recently chose Valvoline Synpower grease at Advance for my Nissan's front wheel bearings. I did some searching here and it seemed like a good mix of performance/price/availability.
Buy online with discount code for the best deal.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...alvoline+grease
Thanks. Seems like most any high-temp, high moly synthetic grease like this will do. I'm not personally a fan of lithium-based greases. Thanks!
You are confusing three things. Grease is a mixture of a thickener, oil, and additives. The lithium base is one common thickener. The oil can be syn, conventional, or a blend. Moly can be one of the additives. So, there are many lithium base synthetic oil moly greases. Dye is also often added to greases. Red, blue, green, I've seen orange--just marketing.
The National Lubricating Grease Institute has established the standards for grease. If it carries the GC standard, it is suitable for wheel bearings. If it is labeled LB, it is suitable for chassis lube. Many greases are labeled LB-GC for both usages.
Originally Posted By: KenO
It was kind of 'beaten' into me as a kid watching what my dad did and used. I know, conventional wisdom and not science, BUT - what he did worked, for his uses. For chassis grease - it was Kendall SuperBlue, and he had significantly fewer parts failures than people running other 'lesser' greases.
Kendall SuperBlue is a lithium complex grease (the kind you repeatedly say you don't like) of just VERY average specifications. It's the "SuperBlue" that makes so many think it is something special.
High moly for wheels bearings is a controversial topic also.
It was kind of 'beaten' into me as a kid watching what my dad did and used. I know, conventional wisdom and not science, BUT - what he did worked, for his uses. For chassis grease - it was Kendall SuperBlue, and he had significantly fewer parts failures than people running other 'lesser' greases.
Kendall SuperBlue is a lithium complex grease (the kind you repeatedly say you don't like) of just VERY average specifications. It's the "SuperBlue" that makes so many think it is something special.
High moly for wheels bearings is a controversial topic also.
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