whats your oil filter of choice and why?

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yeah, it's getting ridiculous. If you don't believe the manufacturers that say their oil filters will last 10K miles (Purolator synthetic) or 15K miles (FRAM Ultra), then I guess that's your prerogative. If you don't believe them or anyone else, then the only alternative is to prove it yourself with your own independent testing or just forget about the whole thing.

Yeah, I guess that would be another option; doing my own testing.
Post your contacts name and info. or PM it to me. I have Q?s. Maybe he can answer them for me.

See this post for the info. It was only $1600 per filter ... it was going to be $15K for 10 filters as you can see in the thread.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2427888

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yeah, it's getting ridiculous. If you don't believe the manufacturers that say their oil filters will last 10K miles (Purolator synthetic) or 15K miles (FRAM Ultra), then I guess that's your prerogative. If you don't believe them or anyone else, then the only alternative is to prove it yourself with your own independent testing or just forget about the whole thing.

Yeah, I guess that would be another option; doing my own testing.
Post your contacts name and info. or PM it to me. I have Q?s. Maybe he can answer them for me.

See this post for the info. It was only $1600 per filter ... it was going to be $15K for 10 filters as you can see in the thread.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2427888

I sent Mr Hutzler an e-mail and hopefully he can answer my Q?s.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

I sent Mr Hutzler an e-mail and hopefully he can answer my Q?s.

Please share the info when you get a response.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:14 PM
To: Hutzler, Scott A.
Subject: Oil Fitration Q?



Hello Mr. Hutzler, I have some Q?'s about automotive oil filters. I have heard rumors that Honda recommends using (1) oil filter for multi OCI's. In other words, can an oil filter be used for (2) OCI's? It has been said that it can be done, but why not just use a new oil filter at every change? Why risk ruining an engine with a used oil filter with used oil and contaminants by introducing them into the new oil? If this is true about Honda, will they warrant an engine failure if caused by an oil filter that was used twice for an OCI?



Wayne

Hi Wayne



Sorry to say but I can’t really answer that question - partly because I don’ have sufficient info on the subject. I’m sure there are plenty of opinions around here but officially all are going to direct you to the manufacturer.



Scott

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

This is only my first round of Q?s to him. I am going to think about my next Q?s more in detail before asking again. ZeeOSix, any input from you is greatly appreciated.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
This is only my first round of Q?s to him. I am going to think about my next Q?s more in detail before asking again. ZeeOSix, any input from you is greatly appreciated.

Why not find the Honda Tech Dept and ask them since Honda recommends using an oil filer for 2 OCIs under normal driving conditions. Note - they do recommend changing the filter every OCI is the car is used in severe driving conditions. And also note that the OEM Honda oil filters are nothing special ... not even close to the construction of a full synthetic filter like the Purolator Synthetic, FRAM Ultra and all similar full synthetic media filters.

Scott at the test lab only knows a lot about testing of the oil filters to the ISO specs that the manufactures use and spec to.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
This is only my first round of Q?s to him. I am going to think about my next Q?s more in detail before asking again. ZeeOSix, any input from you is greatly appreciated.

Why not find the Honda Tech Dept and ask them since Honda recommends using an oil filer for 2 OCIs under normal driving conditions. Note - they do recommend changing the filter every OCI is the car is used in severe driving conditions.

Scott at the test lab only knows a lot about testing of the oil filters to the ISO specs that the manufactures use and spec to.

I was using Honda as my base as to why they recommend using a filter twice. My next round of Q?s will be towards engines in general, be it gas, diesel, propane, etc. I will go more into detail about sludge, no sludge, what is classified as a "clean" engine, etc.
This quest has now got me more curious then the fact that an oil filter being used a 1K times or 1 time.

But, my decision to use a new filter at every OCI will not change.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
This is only my first round of Q?s to him. I am going to think about my next Q?s more in detail before asking again. ZeeOSix, any input from you is greatly appreciated.

Why not find the Honda Tech Dept and ask them since Honda recommends using an oil filer for 2 OCIs under normal driving conditions. Note - they do recommend changing the filter every OCI is the car is used in severe driving conditions.

Scott at the test lab only knows a lot about testing of the oil filters to the ISO specs that the manufactures use and spec to.


I was using Honda as my base as to why they recommend using a filter twice. My next round of Q?s will be towards engines in general, be it gas, diesel, propane, etc. I will go more into detail about sludge, no sludge, what is classified as a "clean" engine, etc.
This quest has now got me more curious then the fact that an oil filter being used a 1K times or 1 time.

But, my decision to use a new filter at every OCI will not change.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree with Scott at the test labs - he's just gonna tell you to contact the filter or car manufactures for this info. You want to talk to Honda Tech Line since they are one car maker that recommends using an oil filter twice under normal driving conditions.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
FWIW I have seen cartridge filters (Chevy Equinox 4 cyl) that appeared to be started to collapse in on themselves after a little over 3,000 miles. I just change all oil and filters in everything I own between 3 and 4K because it's just not worth taking a chance.

And I've held carts with 9000+ on them that looked like they were taken out of the box and dipped in used oil for a second. You have to take more into account than a pic on the internet to shape your entire view.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
FWIW I have seen cartridge filters (Chevy Equinox 4 cyl) that appeared to be started to collapse in on themselves after a little over 3,000 miles. I just change all oil and filters in everything I own between 3 and 4K because it's just not worth taking a chance.

And I've held carts with 9000+ on them that looked like they were taken out of the box and dipped in used oil for a second. You have to take more into account than a pic on the internet to shape your entire view.

Hatt, you bring up an interesting point. Can you elaborate just a bit more?

 

[ZeeOSix]

From FRAM's website in thier FAQ section:
http://fram.com/learn_more/frequently_asked_questions

Q: How are filters tested?

A: Filter Engineering Measurements. Measuring efficiency must be based on the premise that the filter is present on the engine to remove harmful particles and thus protect the engine from wear. Filter efficiency is the measurement of the filter’s performance in preventing harmful particles from reaching the wearing surfaces of the engine. The most widely used method of measurement is Multi-Pass Efficiency test developed by the ISO (International Standards Organization). This and other standard industry tests used to evaluate filters are described below.

1. Multipass Efficiency. This procedure is specified in ISO 4548-12 and is the most recently developed. It involves a newer test technology in that automatic particle counters are used for analysis instead of simply weighing the dirt. The advantage of this is that the particle removal performance of the filter can be found for different size particles throughout the filter’s life. The efficiency determined in this test method is an "instantaneous" efficiency, because the number of particles before and after the filter are counted at the same instant. These numbers are then compared to generate an efficiency measurement.

2. Filter Capacity is also measured in a the ISO 4548-12 test method. To create a successful filter, a balance must be found between high efficiency and long life. Neither a long life filter with low efficiency nor a high efficiency filter with short life is useful in the field. The contaminant holding capacity as defined in ISO 4548-12 is the amount of contaminant removed and held by a filter from the oil during a constantly recirculating flow of contaminated oil. The test is terminated when a predetermined pressure drop across the filter is reached, typically at 8 psid. This pressure drop is associated with the setting of a filter by-pass valve.

3. Mechanical and Durability tests. Oil filters are also subjected to numerous tests to assure the integrity of the filter and its components during vehicle operating conditions. These tests include Burst Pressure, Impulse Fatigue, Vibration, Relief Valve and Anti-Drainback Valve operation, and Hot Oil Durability specified in other ISO and SAE test methods.

-------------------------

The stuff I highlighted in red is what determines how long an oil filter can be left on the car. It all comes down to holding capacity of the filter. All these advertised long OCI oil filters can hold a lot more crud in the media before the PSID across the media gets to 8 PSID as the ISO 4548-12 test method calls out.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

ZeeOSix, it's not just about Honda's. I see other members here with different makes and models wanting to use an oil filter for more than (1) OCI.
I think this can be easily answered if someone were to do a UOA or a series of UOA's on a OCI with the same filter being used when new and after a OCI with said filter again. I don't have the money to do it. But, until more proof..........

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
ZeeOSix, it's not just about Honda's. I see other members here with different makes and models wanting to use an oil filter for more than (1) OCI.
I think this can be easily answered if someone were to do a UOA or a series of UOA's on a OCI with the same filter being used when new and after a OCI with said filter again. I don't have the money to do it. But, until more proof..........

It's been done by many member with UAOs to verify. Go do some searching in this forum. Go ask those guys ... they have UOA data on it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...&PHPSESSID=

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I can see I am hitting a brick wall with my philosophy, opinion, common sense, however you want to classify it.

Just show me a test on an oil filter that is backed by proven facts that it can be used twice for OCI's. How hard is that?

I've got a contact at an independent oil filter testing lab that will run the ISO testing for you for a mere $15,000. Part of the ISO testing process is to determine the holding capacity of the filter, which equates to how many miles the filter can go based on some kind of normal engine condition and debris generation rate.

Common sense says that if a filter manufacturer has rated their oil filter to do a 15K OCI (FRAM Ultra for instance), then they HAVE done the ISO lab testing procedures to determine this service limit. If for instance you used a FRAM Ultra on a engine in good shape that was pretty clean inside, then you could do any one of these OCI schemes to run the filter out to its rated 15K miles.

1) Run a full synthetic oil that is rated for a 15K OCI and run the Ultra for one 15K OCI with the oil.

2) Run oil rated for a 7,500 OCI and run the Ultra over 2 OCIs for a total of 15K.

3) Run oil rated for a 5,000 OCI and run the Ultra over 3 OCIs for a total of 15K.

+1.....I'm doing #2....I have a clean engine....and will run the ULTRA filter to 15K (2X7500).

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I can see I am hitting a brick wall with my philosophy, opinion, common sense, however you want to classify it.

Just show me a test on an oil filter that is backed by proven facts that it can be used twice for OCI's. How hard is that?

I've got a contact at an independent oil filter testing lab that will run the ISO testing for you for a mere $15,000. Part of the ISO testing process is to determine the holding capacity of the filter, which equates to how many miles the filter can go based on some kind of normal engine condition and debris generation rate.

Common sense says that if a filter manufacturer has rated their oil filter to do a 15K OCI (FRAM Ultra for instance), then they HAVE done the ISO lab testing procedures to determine this service limit. If for instance you used a FRAM Ultra on a engine in good shape that was pretty clean inside, then you could do any one of these OCI schemes to run the filter out to its rated 15K miles.

1) Run a full synthetic oil that is rated for a 15K OCI and run the Ultra for one 15K OCI with the oil.

2) Run oil rated for a 7,500 OCI and run the Ultra over 2 OCIs for a total of 15K.

3) Run oil rated for a 5,000 OCI and run the Ultra over 3 OCIs for a total of 15K.

+1.....I'm doing #2....I have a clean engine....and will run the ULTRA filter to 15K (2X7500).

-1.......I also have a clean engine and will run my MC FL-400s to 6-7.5K miles X1!

Until more proof, written documetation, proven tests, yada, yada, yada... a NEW FILTER @ EVERY OCI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

On a different note, y'all have to remember, I am disabled and HAVE to sit on my rear end ALL day. I have nothing better to do but reply to these threads or give my advice or surf or.........anyway, I can do this all day.

But, there is light at the end of the tunnel! I have an appointment March 18th to meet with an Orthopedic surgeon and a Wound surgeon on what they are going to do about my disabilities.

 

[NorWest5]

My preference for oil filters by vehicle here are:

Honda CRV 2.5 litre Bosch
Honda Fit 1.5 litre Wix
Honda S2000 2.2 litre OEM made by Toyo-Riki (no longer available) or Mobil 1
Honda Civic 1.7 litre Bosch or Wix
BMW M5 5.0 litre Hengst or Mahle-Knecht
Dodge Charger 383 CI Wix or Purolator

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: NorWest5
My preference for oil filters by vehicle here are:

Honda CRV 2.5 litre Bosch
Honda Fit 1.5 litre Wix
Honda S2000 2.2 litre OEM made by Toyo-Riki (no longer available) or Mobil 1
Honda Civic 1.7 litre Bosch or Wix
BMW M5 5.0 litre Hengst or Mahle-Knecht
Dodge Charger 383 CI Wix or Purolator

Do you use the same oil filter twice on OCI's for the Honda's?

 

[NorWest5]

"Do you use the same oil filter twice on OCI's for the Honda's?"

Never. I change by time (once per year) as my annual mileage is very low on the S2000 ~ 1000 miles last year. All vehicles except the Dodge run full synthetic oil and the filters are cheaper then a litre of oil.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: NorWest5
"Do you use the same oil filter twice on OCI's for the Honda's?"

Never. I change by time (once per year) as my annual mileage is very low on the S2000 ~ 1000 miles last year. All vehicles except the Dodge run full synthetic oil and the filters are cheaper then a litre of oil.

C'mon man, jump on the bandwagon. Don't you know the "in" thing is to use an oil filter twice on a Honda?