whats your oil filter of choice and why?

[ZeeOSix]

Here is some email correspondance I had with Purolator Engineer (Todd Vick) in April 2011.

My questions where:
1) When the rating of 99.9% at 20 microns (for the PureONE) or 97.5% @ 20 microns (for the Classic) is shown per ISO 4548-12, is this rating at the beginning of the test when the filter is basically new, somewhere in the middle of the test (averaged), or at the end of the test when the filter's maximum holding capacity is achieved?

2) Does an oil filter's efficiency increase as it becomes loaded with trapped debris? If so, about what is the general percent difference in filtering efficiency of a new filter vs. a filter at maximum debris loading point?

His reply was:
The rating of a filter is the average efficiency during the life of the test. The test is terminated at a predetermined differential pressure across the element. The report writer of the equipment will print a graph which will show typically the filter starting with higher efficiency, dropping slowly and then increase efficiency in the latter part of the test – a “hockey stick” visual effect. The reporting is automatic with the test stand and cannot be adjusted externally.

The efficiency is highest at the beginning (before the media is attacked by oil and acidity) and again at the end as contamination does improve efficiency. We cannot correlate the change of efficiency to predict the change during the lifecycle on a car.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Here is some email correspondance I had with Purolator Engineer (Todd Vick) in April 2011.

My questions where:
1) When the rating of 99.9% at 20 microns (for the PureONE) or 97.5% @ 20 microns (for the Classic) is shown per ISO 4548-12, is this rating at the beginning of the test when the filter is basically new, somewhere in the middle of the test (averaged), or at the end of the test when the filter's maximum holding capacity is achieved?

2) Does an oil filter's efficiency increase as it becomes loaded with trapped debris? If so, about what is the general percent difference in filtering efficiency of a new filter vs. a filter at maximum debris loading point?

His reply was:
The rating of a filter is the average efficiency during the life of the test. The test is terminated at a predetermined differential pressure across the element. The report writer of the equipment will print a graph which will show typically the filter starting with higher efficiency, dropping slowly and then increase efficiency in the latter part of the test – a “hockey stick” visual effect. The reporting is automatic with the test stand and cannot be adjusted externally.

The efficiency is highest at the beginning (before the media is attacked by oil and acidity) and again at the end as contamination does improve efficiency. We cannot correlate the change of efficiency to predict the change during the lifecycle on a car.


ZeeOSix, I understand your point of view and where you are coming from.
If you were buying a new HDTV you would take word of mouth as 1 way to make a choice. But, you know you are going to do some research done by testing facilities that rate HDTV's (Consumer Reports) and most likely to make your choice that way. Or, maybe not, but I would.
I want to see evidence, testing, proof, whatever is out there, that an oil filter is safe to use twice for an oil change. Until then.......

 

[ZeeOSix]

That info was right from the Purolator Engineering Dept. They said a filter's efficiency does get better towards the end of life as it gets loaded up with debris. Keep in mind that cars on the road with clean engines will never load up a filter to the point it would go into bypass mode. So if a filter is actually rated at 10~15K OCI, then there's no reason you couldn't do 2 times 5K, or 2 times 7.5K OCIs. The manufacturer has tested the debris "holding capacity" to simulate a typical car going that many miles. That's how they have come up with the rated OCI for the filter, and I'm sure there is plenty of safety margin in that rating.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
That info was right from the Purolator Engineering Dept. They said a filter's efficiency does get better towards the end of life as it gets loaded up with debris. Keep in mind that cars on the road with clean engines will never load up a filter to the point it would go into bypass mode. So if a filter is rated at 10~15K OCI, then there's no reason you couldn't do 2X 5K or 2X 7.5K OCIs.

Still, I understand your point of view. But, it's like buying a car; without a CarFax, no deal!
I want some kind of proof! Word of mouth is all good by the Purolator Engineering Dept. If that's the case, where is their write up or the test results from afore mentioned points? All I ask is to see the proof. Until I see the test results or the documentation saying that using the same oil filter for more than 1 OCI is acceptable, I am not convinced.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Believe Honda (and others who say it's OK with normal vehicle use) or just change it every oil change if you're that skeptical. You aren't going to find some kind of specific test that tells you it's OK. Try Googling all you want ... doubt you'll find anything.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Believe Honda (and others who say it's OK with normal vehicle use) or just change it every oil change if you're that skeptical. You aren't going to find some kind of specific test that tells you it's OK. Try Googling all you want ... doubt you'll find anything.

You're correct. I have read here and on other websites after I Googled it, that Honda owners say its ok to use an oil filter twice on OCI's.
I have also Googled it until I am blue in the face

to try and find a manufacturer that claims the same.
I am not that tight as to where I can't buy a new oil filter for each OCI.

 

[Silverado12]

FRAM orange filter (haha no, just kidding). I use ACDelco in my truck (PF-47) because it is as cheap as the rest of them and OEM. I also use Shell Costco 5W-30 and run it 3-4,000 miles.

 

[Silverado12]

FWIW I have seen cartridge filters (Chevy Equinox 4 cyl) that appeared to be started to collapse in on themselves after a little over 3,000 miles. I just change all oil and filters in everything I own between 3 and 4K because it's just not worth taking a chance.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
FWIW I have seen cartridge filters (Chevy Equinox 4 cyl) that appeared to be started to collapse in on themselves after a little over 3,000 miles. I just change all oil and filters in everything I own between 3 and 4K because it's just not worth taking a chance.

Common sense prevails every time.

 

[KCJeep]

We have guys posting pics on here of filters that have been used for a single OCI for up to 10k. They generally look fine if the engine is clean. If doing shorter OCI's, how is that different than leaving the filter for a second change?

Clearly it bothers you so don't do it.

Me I'm so often messing with filters anymore rarely am I changing the filter at the same time as the oil on the Jeep. Our other vehicles I just do normal full change OCI's though.

 

[Bgallagher]

AC Delco originals. Good construction and my car seems to run quieter with them versus other brands I have used (you name it.)

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Clearly it bothers you so don't do it.

I wouldn't go to that extreme to say that it "bothers" me. I am just a person that believes in facts. If it is proven that an oil filter that is used twice for an OCI is the same or as efficient as a new oil filter, I am all for it. Until then, I will just use a new filter at each OCI.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Clearly it bothers you so don't do it.

I wouldn't go to that extreme to say that it "bothers" me. I am just a person that believes in facts. If it is proven that an oil filter that is used twice for an OCI is the same or as efficient as a new oil filter, I am all for it. Until then, I will just use a new filter at each OCI.

Why wouldn't it be? Only time you need to be concerned about running a filter too long is if the filter loads up enough to open the bypass valve. On filters that are advertized to be 10K or 15K OCI capable, they will run to that mileage on an engine that is in good shape and already pretty clean inside. If an engine is a sludge maker, then definitely run a new filter every time, and change oil & filter often. Engine condition and use factors are key factors in determining what filter & oil to use, and how often they should be changed.

 

[Mr Nice]

I do 20K miles on our Hondas with an oversized Purolator ...
But that's with 3 OCI's.

Engines are spotless and purring like a kitten.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Clearly it bothers you so don't do it.

I wouldn't go to that extreme to say that it "bothers" me. I am just a person that believes in facts. If it is proven that an oil filter that is used twice for an OCI is the same or as efficient as a new oil filter, I am all for it. Until then, I will just use a new filter at each OCI.

Why wouldn't it be? Only time you need to be concerned about running a filter too long is if the filter loads up enough to open the bypass valve. On filters that are advertized to be 10K or 15K OCI capable, they will run to that mileage on an engine that is in good shape and already pretty clean inside. If an engine is a sludge maker, then definitely run a new filter every time, and change oil & filter often.

I can see I am hitting a brick wall with my philosophy, opinion, common sense, however you want to classify it.

Just show me a test on an oil filter that is backed by proven facts that it can be used twice for OCI's. How hard is that?

 

[JohnathanDm]

I Use Purolator because my grand daddy used them growing up,and I'm Also buying to keep American Job's. Mann oilfilter is a different story, I only Use it because my bmw likes mann filter more then the K&N Oil filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I can see I am hitting a brick wall with my philosophy, opinion, common sense, however you want to classify it.

Just show me a test on an oil filter that is backed by proven facts that it can be used twice for OCI's. How hard is that?

I've got a contact at an independent oil filter testing lab that will run the ISO testing for you for a mere $15,000. Part of the ISO testing process is to determine the holding capacity of the filter, which equates to how many miles the filter can go based on some kind of normal engine condition and debris generation rate.

Common sense says that if a filter manufacturer has rated their oil filter to do a 15K OCI (FRAM Ultra for instance), then they HAVE done the ISO lab testing procedures to determine this service limit. If for instance you used a FRAM Ultra on a engine in good shape that was pretty clean inside, then you could do any one of these OCI schemes to run the filter out to its rated 15K miles.

1) Run a full synthetic oil that is rated for a 15K OCI and run the Ultra for one 15K OCI with the oil.

2) Run oil rated for a 7,500 OCI and run the Ultra over 2 OCIs for a total of 15K.

3) Run oil rated for a 5,000 OCI and run the Ultra over 3 OCIs for a total of 15K.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I can see I am hitting a brick wall with my philosophy, opinion, common sense, however you want to classify it.

Just show me a test on an oil filter that is backed by proven facts that it can be used twice for OCI's. How hard is that?

I've got a contact at an independent oil filter testing lab that will run the ISO testing for you for a mere $15,000.


Common sense says that if a filter manufacturer has rated their oil filter to do a 15K OCI (FRAM Ultra for instance), then they HAVE done the lab testing to determine this service limit.

And, they have put this in writting and have the results for the average consumer to review?
Why would I want to spend MY own money on a test that SHOULD be available to the public? Do you know how many NEW oil filters $15K would buy? Or, cut it in half if you use them twice!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yeah, it's getting ridiculous. If you don't believe the manufacturers that say their oil filters will last 10K miles (Purolator synthetic) or 15K miles (FRAM Ultra), then I guess that's your prerogative. If you don't believe them or anyone else, then the only alternative is to prove it yourself with your own independent testing or just forget about the whole thing instead of going in circles.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yeah, it's getting ridiculous. If you don't believe the manufacturers that say their oil filters will last 10K miles (Purolator synthetic) or 15K miles (FRAM Ultra), then I guess that's your prerogative. If you don't believe them or anyone else, then the only alternative is to prove it yourself with your own independent testing or just forget about the whole thing.

Yeah, I guess that would be another option; doing my own testing.
Post your contacts name and info. or PM it to me. I have Q?s. Maybe he can answer them for me.