What's a Reasonable Markup for Level 2 Charging?

A

Astro_Guy

Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
2,169
Location
Pennsylvania
For the past few years I was able to charge at a shopping center one mile away at no cost. There were two level 2 chargers originally part of the Volta network that were later sold to the Shell recharge network. While these were never my primary source of charging I would plug in when visiting Walmart or the local supermarket. As of about the first of this year Shell finalized the sale of essentailly all of their level 2 chargers to the Jolt network from Australia. These formerly free chargers now seek $0.39/kWh or nearly double the local retail rate for electricity. Needless to say I have not used them since that change occurred.

I understand premium pricing for level 3 fast DC charging since the infrastructure is expensive and you are paying for the convenience of a fast charge. What is a resonable markup for level 2 charging? My retail cost for electricity is $0.215/kWh and nearby level 2 charging rates vary from twelve to fifty cents.
 
I'd say 20% or so? But around here that would be like... $0.80/kwh. So I'd be very pleased with $0.39/kwh. Haha.

Keep in mind while the charger might only cost $1-2K the installation of it likely cost FAR more.
 
Is 30% not a typical markup for a business? Seems you have a 70% markup if you pay .22/KWh and they charge .39

But IDK they have enough consumption to stay in business at less of a markup, lots of factors there. The people who live in the "mixed use developments" without garages don't have a choice but to charge in some other place.
 
If you can get level 2 charging for $0.215, you shouldn't pay $0.39.

If people vote with their feet, the price will fall.

On one of our long trips there were 2 chargers in one town. The one right on the route charged a lot more than what the less conveniently located one. I charged up at the less expensive one. As a minimum, they deserve my business.
 
ecotourist said:
If you can get level 2 charging for $0.215, you shouldn't pay $0.39.

If people vote with their feet, the price will fall.

On one of our long trips there were 2 chargers in one town. The one right on the route charged a lot more than what the less conveniently located one. I charged up at the less expensive one. As a minimum, they deserve my business.
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His retail electric is .22, commercial rates could be cheaper. I have no idea how much the electric is for a charger at a hyatt for example.
 
Many years ago I worked at a Pontiac Buick dealership. One day the boss came in with big box of miscellaneous auto stuff for sale. He asked me to price the components but gave me no indication of how to price them. So I took the price list and doubled our costs (yes, 100% markup). That stuff sold within the week.

We could have sold more. I don't think we had anything like that sort of markup on GM parts.
 
ecotourist said:
Many years ago I worked at a Pontiac Buick dealership. One day the boss came in with big box of miscellaneous auto stuff for sale. He asked me to price the components but gave me no indication of how to price them. So I took the price list and doubled our costs (yes, 100% markup). That stuff sold within the week.

We could have sold more. I don't think we had anything like that sort of markup on GM parts.
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That is what I do when I am told to sell something not on the Ford or Mazda master price tape.

A reasonable price is what the market will bear.
 
Take your total electric bill and divide it by the KWH usage for the billing period. I think you'll find your cost of electricity to be substantially more than $0.22/kwh.
 
JohnnyG said:
Take your total electric bill and divide it by the KWH usage for the billing period. I think you'll find your cost of electricity to be substantially more than $0.22/kwh.
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That's my marginal cost for the next kWh. There is an $11.30 month charge for the privildge of having a meter. My average cost is actually far lower because I have solar. Marginal cost is the only way to look at this when it comes down to chosing where to purchase the power.
 
Astro_Guy said:
That's my marginal cost for the next kWh. There is an $11.30 month charge for the privildge of having a meter. My average cost is actually far lower because I have solar. Marginal cost is the only way to look at this when it comes down to chosing where to purchase the power.
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Those are special circumstances that you won't get on a fast DC charger. Your still comparing apples to oranges IMO.
 
JohnnyG said:
Those are special circumstances that you won't get on a fast DC charger. Your still comparing apples to oranges IMO.
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my all in cost is around 19cents used to be closer to 14

my "generation cost" went up from 4.9cents to 8cents.. which was less than 40% of the overall bill. (at 5cents)

now generation is 50% or more since the state slapped Firstenergy silly.. over their bribery, bad dealings,
and upgrade charges that they never spent on grid upgrades.

Funny enough my whole street is getting new poles this week
both local and distribution poles... or whatever they are called.

hopefully they replace this pole Turd (feeds my side of street) that has melted its wires twice now.
1773871024364.webp


generation is currently about 53% Firstenergy distro component 47%

That is with deregulation If I went with firstenergy standard choice rate it was 9.3-11cents (vs 8cents energyharbor)

Simple enough eh? /ugh
 
So he is making $.20 a kw and can push what - 10kwh? So there making $2.00 and hour?

How much does it cost to install a level 2 charger, with a Point of sale to bill the customer, and maintenance, and any rent. Sounds either too cheap or a lousy business to be in. I wonder if once the novelty and subsidies wear off if EV chargers will be the new phone booth.

Just as a mention - retail margins are usually 2 to 3X markup. Most shops double the cost of parts. This shouldn't surprise anyone here.
 
bdcardinal said:
A reasonable price is what the market will bear.
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Yes exactly.

Buying electricity for commercial use is usually less incremental cost per kWh than homes have, but high fixed costs including a "demand charge" based on the maximum kW drawn in any 5 minute period during the month. That can be more than half of the bill. It's murder on fast chargers.
 
JohnnyG said:
Take your total electric bill and divide it by the KWH usage for the billing period. I think you'll find your cost of electricity to be substantially more than $0.22/kwh.
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^^^^^^
Actually, this is what I preach in here all the time.
No sense posting the charge per kilowatt hour without, including all your other service charges.

I also post my electric bills as you and some others might not have believed it. That’s OK!

You will see our actual cost/payment is 13 cents to 14 cents a kilowatt hour. That is our soup to nuts payment including all service charges and taxes.

Actual payment divided by the kilowatt hours.
IMG_7595.webp


I know @JeffKeryk is aware has seen my bills before
 
Last edited:
Wait, is this a trick question?

EVs are supposed to be way more betterer.

You should not be worried about the charge fee, arent you hand over fist with extra $$$$$$ due to the efficiency of the EV?
 
Should also be noted that with DCFC you pay for DC kWh after the power converter. With a level 2 charge the converter is in your car so you are paying for kWh including conversion loss.
 
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