- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
- Messages
- 5,060
I agree. For clarity, I didn't shoehorn everyone into 4WD nor said everyone lives in New England.
Whatever happened to......
- Thread starter sloinker
- Start date
I agree. For clarity, I didn't shoehorn everyone into 4WD nor said everyone lives in New England.
I think there are a bunch of different factors going on:
-Dealers will have trucks on their lot that make the most profit. This is why most of the vehicles will be in the "middle range". They can still sell a lot of them and make a good profit, where they would sell fewer if they only had $90,000 platinum super duper editions nobody can afford.
-The pickup truck has evolved from a basic work tool to a daily driver, a do everything vehicle (another "do everything" vehicle would be the CUV). Buyers want the daily driver comfort in their every day work tool.
-Car loans are out of control. Everyone wants the latest and greatest and 84 month loans make that possible. Many have the mentality of "If I'm making payments, might as well get the one with the options I want".
-Dealers will have trucks on their lot that make the most profit. This is why most of the vehicles will be in the "middle range". They can still sell a lot of them and make a good profit, where they would sell fewer if they only had $90,000 platinum super duper editions nobody can afford.
-The pickup truck has evolved from a basic work tool to a daily driver, a do everything vehicle (another "do everything" vehicle would be the CUV). Buyers want the daily driver comfort in their every day work tool.
-Car loans are out of control. Everyone wants the latest and greatest and 84 month loans make that possible. Many have the mentality of "If I'm making payments, might as well get the one with the options I want".
Basic used to mean standard shift MT, no power steering, no power brakes, crank windows, no cruise control, no radio, vinyl bench seat and steel floors.
Standards evolve.
Standards evolve.
I have a 2wd 4-cylinder pickup and it does everything I need a truck to do. I don't tow a trailer, my payloads are always less than 1500 lb, and I *very* rarely drive in snow or icy conditions. If I needed a truck that was more capable, more powerful, more whatever, I would have bought a different truck. So buy whatever vehicle meets your needs, that may be big or small, 2x or 4x, super lux or stripped. I personally do not want a super fancy lifted 4x4 with leather and touchscreen and heated **** massager, it's just not my thing. But to each their own. I will say, way too many people buy super burly massive pickups and do nothing more than mall crawling and grocery hauling and various forms of pollution. So lame. But if looking badass and keeping up that image is so important... to each their own.
The Toyota t100 4 cylinder with one option A/C would be great. It has a full eight foot bed that takes full 4x8 sheets laid flat. Too bad they discontinued them. I would think a contractor or other would want an eight foot full size bed if they are actually carrying things not driving around in the style of the times. Also a normal entry height not three feet up.
I could care less what people drive, but I do care HOW they drive it. Seems a lot of these big burly pickup guys and gals shouldn't be piloting anything larger than a smart car. They can't keep the thing in their own lane especially when turning and parking them is a joke. There is a guy at my work lot with a 2500HD super duper LTZ platinum edition and he can't park it so he uses the end spot in the lot. He is constantly messing up the grass trying to back it in, I'm actually surprised they haven't sent him a bill for the landscaping damage.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
The government used to get those, they don't even do that anymore. GSA says resale. The trucks where I work do have rubber, but have decent radios, cruise, power windows, power door looks, just plain optioned better than a work truck. My last truck was a true W/T trim. 4 door, long bed, 2wd only option was A/C. No cruise, no PDL, no PW and vinyl seats. It got old after 10 year. My new truck is a 2017 LT and it has rubber floors which I love. If there were a market for a basic work truck, a profitable market, they would sell more of them.
In Sept. 2008 I purchased a new 2008 Silverado LS with 4.8, 4wd and towing package for a bit under $20k. Yes, there was employee pricing and a rebate, but the original sticker bottom line was barely $27k. 4 or 5 months later the old GM was gone. Back then, I think the only difference between the Work truck and a LS trim was a chrome front bumper and maybe cloth seats. Roll down windows, no pwr seats or locks. Today, I would guess that a low end model like mine, if you could find one, would be closer to $35? I think there would be a huge market for low end trucks of any size at $22-$25k. even with just 2wd. Of course, all the manufacturers are thinking, why, when there's an endless line of folks paying $40 or $50k for not much more at all.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Or about 30’ in places where I like to leave the hooligans behind …
Plenty of these are still made sans the manual. These are called fleet trucks, no one buys a manual for a fleet truck because 95% of the workforce who’d use it would need to be trained at company expense how to use it. Most people who say they want a plain Jane work truck don’t really want one though. Paying 30k for wind up windows and vinyl sounds nice on jalopnik but 50% depreciation off the lot and a crummy place to sit all day doesn’t sound fun. I do agree truck interiors should be made more durable, rubber floors, easily replaceable dash and door card components that are coated rubber, cloth neoprene seats with easy to replace foam. These are things I’d pay for. A friend of mine has a Honda Element and every truck mfg should have a sample of that car to use as inspiration for their interior.
I think you could've got a 2wd RAM classic for $25k OTD before March this year, msrp is $28k now and I'd think a high volume or fleet dealer can pump them out the door much cheaper than that. Its not all that basic really but not fancy either. My Dad's SLT V8 6spd RAM 4x4 crewcab was like $34k CAD which is about $25k US. I think its actually a decent interior for a bit of abuse and the only thing really noticeable is that it has no infotainment screen, just a back camera screen in the rear view mirror. But that's fine too, I can't say I miss the screen in our Outback when I get into my Focus.
I think the reality is that making a nice interior vs a cheap one isn't that much more expensive. So the manufactures can't discount the price enough to make most people opt for the super cheap interior.
There's a fella on a Ram board I participate at that bought one of those particular Ram 1500s, although it might be a 2019. He qualified for most of the rebates and incentives and got it for pretty close to that $18K number IIRC. I think that's about the least expensive reg cab 2wd work truck you'll find today.
I don't really remember when the lower cost work trucks went out of style. I do know I paid under $13K for a brand new 1994 Chevy 1/2 ton W/T, reg cab, short box, 2wd, 4.3L, 5spd, no A/C, manual everything. Back then a no optioned full size work truck could still be had for close to the price of an economy car.
I had a 2WD Ranger on Long Island, and I never had a problem. LI winters aren't Upstate winters, but LI winters are no picnic - especially considering the lousy job that the State does on the roads
I couldn't agree with you more. I am especially disappointed with the new Ranger, in that a regular cab/manual transmission variant is offered overseas.
As it stands, I might have to go for a Ram 1500 Classic or an F150, because the Ranger has a turbocharged engine, and a ten speed automatic that costs what...ten-twelve grand to rebuild?
Vehicles have gotten absolutely ridiculous.
"Well people continue buying expensive vehicles"
All on credit. The majority of consumers have overextended themselves. And what percentage of American's missed their mortgage payment last month?
The jig will soon be up.
For sure on the 2wd thing. Even into the 90s it seemed most pickup trucks sold were 2wd. I got by with them in the winter like everyone else. Now you're hard pressed to find a 4x2 pickup in my area and I have to admit, I wouldn't go back to one now unless I lived somewhere that didn't really get snow.
I wonder how many pick-ups in Texas would have better control if they could just hit a 4 HI button when it started torrential raining.. you would then have to ask how good the tires are. But even then, it would have helped. (Even the selector on an Expedition has that option. At least on an Eddie Bauer it did. And that's maybe the single best snow vehicle I've ever had. I believe weight helps, yes.)
Back in Upstate New York.. we would laugh at pickups that were not some form of 4WD. It was almost like a luxury item, sure, but if you're gonna get a truck.. get one with 4WD? Just as an aside. And the farther North and West you go in NY, seems like the more snow you get, or got. Some debate about winters now. They used to be very bad.
I still think my original statement more or less nails it. Sure, large swaths of owners in desert states may not need 4WD... Really, ever. Sure. But now take that truck to Upstate New York or Pennsylvania in the winter to visit your family member that just got a house up there or whatever for Christmas and your Texas plated truck.. may encounter a snow road.. who knows.
Now, another angle. Are we talking about simply basic trucks, or basic work trucks? I think an 80s Nissan P'up or Pickup (I do not think they had an actualodel name back then. Same for Toyota??) Or again an 80s Toyota Pick-Up were "basic trucks" and could be had with a 5-speed and nothing else in them.. cloth seats, maybe even no A/C. (Think Marty McFly's pick-up at the end of the first movie. That was a basic truck with a nice paint job and big tires. Looks good, even today.) But I am not sure if that is a work truck.
I have seen Auto parts delivery vehicles be both basic Chevy S-10s and sometimes their Isuzu clone (????) and Ford Rangers. You could get an S-10 with a 2.5 and probably even a manual.
Back in Upstate New York.. we would laugh at pickups that were not some form of 4WD. It was almost like a luxury item, sure, but if you're gonna get a truck.. get one with 4WD? Just as an aside. And the farther North and West you go in NY, seems like the more snow you get, or got. Some debate about winters now. They used to be very bad.
I still think my original statement more or less nails it. Sure, large swaths of owners in desert states may not need 4WD... Really, ever. Sure. But now take that truck to Upstate New York or Pennsylvania in the winter to visit your family member that just got a house up there or whatever for Christmas and your Texas plated truck.. may encounter a snow road.. who knows.
Now, another angle. Are we talking about simply basic trucks, or basic work trucks? I think an 80s Nissan P'up or Pickup (I do not think they had an actualodel name back then. Same for Toyota??) Or again an 80s Toyota Pick-Up were "basic trucks" and could be had with a 5-speed and nothing else in them.. cloth seats, maybe even no A/C. (Think Marty McFly's pick-up at the end of the first movie. That was a basic truck with a nice paint job and big tires. Looks good, even today.) But I am not sure if that is a work truck.
I have seen Auto parts delivery vehicles be both basic Chevy S-10s and sometimes their Isuzu clone (????) and Ford Rangers. You could get an S-10 with a 2.5 and probably even a manual.
I don't get to look here every day due to very busy work schedule but I don't want to be seen as not responding. Apologies there. As to Long Island. Sort of a big place, LI as a whole.. There was always the neighbor with that view. There is nothing wrong with that view. Everyone I know that ever made do with a 2WD used to put ohhh about 200-300lbs (4 or 6 bags) of Road Salt bags in the back of the bed. Seemed to help immensely. I agree that in areas where snow isn't.. really really deep bad or prevalent you can do that. I would then have to ask you how many hilly, winding roads are in Long Island like there are in NY-19 (called NY-17 in Tuxedo, sorry) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_county_routes_in_Orange_County,_New_York that is a windy, hilly road you could call "twisties" that is fun in an old Accord or any sports car on a sunny day.. but downright treacherous in any kind of bad weather, and at night.
Not really sure it would ever make sense to be spending all that money on a truck, say, a brand new 1991 Chevy Silverado or "C/K2500" (Silverado) and not have 4WD. That truck always did have cloth bench seats though, so, it maybe still qualifies as basic... Neighbors had a Ford F-350 Powerstroke Diesel. The 7.3. I think that was 4WD as well. I do not recall exactly but. For context.
I’ve lived in Texas, and if you’re sliding that much in the rain that you think you need 4H than you need to either stop driving like a jackass or buy some new tires. Even with an empty 3/4 ton truck you shouldn’t have that much issue with the back kicking out unless you want to do it and even then the oversteer is pretty controllable.I wonder how many pick-ups in Texas would have better control if they could just hit a 4 HI button when it started torrential raining.. you would then have to ask how good the tires are. But even then, it would have helped. (Even the selector on an Expedition has that option. At least on an Eddie Bauer it did. And that's maybe the single best snow vehicle I've ever had. I believe weight helps, yes.)
Back in Upstate New York.. we would laugh at pickups that were not some form of 4WD. It was almost like a luxury item, sure, but if you're gonna get a truck.. get one with 4WD? Just as an aside. And the farther North and West you go in NY, seems like the more snow you get, or got. Some debate about winters now. They used to be very bad.
I still think my original statement more or less nails it. Sure, large swaths of owners in desert states may not need 4WD... Really, ever. Sure. But now take that truck to Upstate New York or Pennsylvania in the winter to visit your family member that just got a house up there or whatever for Christmas and your Texas plated truck.. may encounter a snow road.. who knows.
Now, another angle. Are we talking about simply basic trucks, or basic work trucks? I think an 80s Nissan P'up or Pickup (I do not think they had an actualodel name back then. Same for Toyota??) Or again an 80s Toyota Pick-Up were "basic trucks" and could be had with a 5-speed and nothing else in them.. cloth seats, maybe even no A/C. (Think Marty McFly's pick-up at the end of the first movie. That was a basic truck with a nice paint job and big tires. Looks good, even today.) But I am not sure if that is a work truck.
I have seen Auto parts delivery vehicles be both basic Chevy S-10s and sometimes their Isuzu clone (????) and Ford Rangers. You could get an S-10 with a 2.5 and probably even a manual.
