I'd like to know what some of you think about the ailing economy; sure it's gotten somewhat better, but people are very frugal now. I'm not sure what would happen if the market crashed again, because we have exhausted everything in our arsenal to slow/stop a downturn. Should the economy collapse, what would happen. Should the economy be left to collapse. It doesn't respond to stimuli.
What to do with a sluggish economy.
- Thread starter SkyActivG
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If your scared, dont get gold or silver. Guns, Ammo, and Beer will be all the craze...
If you've pounded interest rates to zero (effectively), then the old adage that if your only tool is a hammer every problem is a nail clearly applies.
It's not working, and going negative won't either.
Handing out (Oz experience) stimulus payments that in one fell swoop go straight to China stimulated nothing...nothing like fixing the railroads and water infrastructure would have done with gangs working and buying beer in local economies would at least have had a "trickle down" so to speak.
It's not working, and going negative won't either.
Handing out (Oz experience) stimulus payments that in one fell swoop go straight to China stimulated nothing...nothing like fixing the railroads and water infrastructure would have done with gangs working and buying beer in local economies would at least have had a "trickle down" so to speak.
A program like the old Civilian Conservation Corps would employ people, reduce unemployment, and rebuild the infrastructure. I don't know why big banks aren't allowed to fail, while small businesses are.
Give lots and lots of money to low income workers - they will spend it everywhere, food, clothing, engine oil, washing machines, drugs and guns. For an econnomy to florish money has to move, it doesn't move locked up in real estate and banks.
Economies are complex machines, broadly at the same level as weather systems. We use our most capable super-computers to model either, and even then we throw out a lot of inputs that should be included, and guess at a lot more inputs because we can't accurately measure them.
And then the world's most advanced computers chugs and churns and spits out a guess that is within the realm of possibility but probably got the "where" wrong as in "where in the realm of possibility are we?".
Borrowing money improves the economy due to the way banks create money out of thin air. No borrowing, no money created out of thin air; it's pretty simple stuff actually.
They can teach everything there is to know about economic theory in a first year half-class.
The rest is application, which is very, very hard to do and thus gets you to grad school and maybe a job outside academia advising people, based on your experiments during seven years of college.
What is prudent advice to give your son or daughter is broadly speaking bad advice if you want to stimulate the economy. Thus we have the first dilemma to deal with. There are many more once you solve that one.
And then the world's most advanced computers chugs and churns and spits out a guess that is within the realm of possibility but probably got the "where" wrong as in "where in the realm of possibility are we?".
Borrowing money improves the economy due to the way banks create money out of thin air. No borrowing, no money created out of thin air; it's pretty simple stuff actually.
They can teach everything there is to know about economic theory in a first year half-class.
The rest is application, which is very, very hard to do and thus gets you to grad school and maybe a job outside academia advising people, based on your experiments during seven years of college.
What is prudent advice to give your son or daughter is broadly speaking bad advice if you want to stimulate the economy. Thus we have the first dilemma to deal with. There are many more once you solve that one.
The economy has changed in that there is a larger divide in income. The loss of manufacturing jobs to China and Mexico has resulted in more people living paycheck to paycheck. Add bringing a flood of immigrants here in the past 20 years that don't grow the economy to scale and taking advantage of the cheaper labor and its a disaster. There are some sectors that have done great in this economy like the medical field. But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
The economy has changed in that there is a larger divide in income. The loss of manufacturing jobs to China and Mexico has resulted in more people living paycheck to paycheck. Add bringing a flood of immigrants here in the past 20 years that don't grow the economy to scale and taking advantage of the cheaper labor and its a disaster. There are some sectors that have done great in this economy like the medical field. But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
Well, certainly that is the common man's consensus. But who buys the most manufactured goods from the USA? And who buys the most after that nation? Hint ... you mentioned that one in your post.
I came of age in the early 1970's ... my first jobs after High School were in 1975. You could't walk down a street without tripping on a job. You could quit one in the morning and have a new one by 1:00 the same day.
Then came the late 70's then the early 80's and 20% inflation (means the cost of everything doubles every 3.5 years). An no jobs to be found; unemployment amongst some sectors of the population above 20%, and near or above 10% for everyone if you ignore the age group demographics.
I lived through those years, and trust me, they were much worse than today.
America transitioned to a service economy during the Reagan years. If it took a while for the average person to figure it out, well, that's not because there weren't enough hints out there for those paying attention. The better economy of the 90's was all service sector, not manufacturing.
Manufacturing died in the 1970's ... it just was a little stubborn and didn't die when the slide began, but much later when all hope was lost. It's a mistake to confuse the two times if you want to stimulate the economy or place blame for the loss of manufacturing. When was the first time you saw a Komatsu tracked dozer? That's when the manufacturing sector died, not last week. John Deere is thrilled about the production in their new factories ... in Russia.
So ask yourself why the Russians buy John Deere tractors and we don't?
The economy has changed in that there is a larger divide in income. The loss of manufacturing jobs to China and Mexico has resulted in more people living paycheck to paycheck. Add bringing a flood of immigrants here in the past 20 years that don't grow the economy to scale and taking advantage of the cheaper labor and its a disaster. There are some sectors that have done great in this economy like the medical field. But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
Well, certainly that is the common man's consensus. But who buys the most manufactured goods from the USA? And who buys the most after that nation? Hint ... you mentioned that one in your post.
I came of age in the early 1970's ... my first jobs after High School were in 1975. You could't walk down a street without tripping on a job. You could quit one in the morning and have a new one by 1:00 the same day.
Then came the late 70's then the early 80's and 20% inflation (means the cost of everything doubles every 3.5 years). An no jobs to be found; unemployment amongst some sectors of the population above 20%, and near or above 10% for everyone if you ignore the age group demographics.
I lived through those years, and trust me, they were much worse than today.
America transitioned to a service economy during the Reagan years. If it took a while for the average person to figure it out, well, that's not because there weren't enough hints out there for those paying attention. The better economy of the 90's was all service sector, not manufacturing.
Manufacturing died in the 1970's ... it just was a little stubborn and didn't die when the slide began, but much later when all hope was lost. It's a mistake to confuse the two times if you want to stimulate the economy or place blame for the loss of manufacturing. When was the first time you saw a Komatsu tracked dozer? That's when the manufacturing sector died, not last week. John Deere is thrilled about the production in their new factories ... in Russia.
So ask yourself why the Russians buy John Deere tractors and we don't?
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
So, the answer is Mexico is the USA's No2 export market for manufactured goods.
No1 is Canada, and the Canada/US trade is the world's largest, and by quite a large margin to boot.
Mexico is becoming a manufactured goods exporter because wages in China have risen over the last 15 years to the point where the two nations are essentially at wage parity. You can't buy a freezer that wasn't made in Mexico, for example.
No1 is Canada, and the Canada/US trade is the world's largest, and by quite a large margin to boot.
Mexico is becoming a manufactured goods exporter because wages in China have risen over the last 15 years to the point where the two nations are essentially at wage parity. You can't buy a freezer that wasn't made in Mexico, for example.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
The medical field has grown too large, too expensive and is a burden on working people and taxpayers.
The Medicare entitlement deficit is absurd.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
The medical field has grown too large, too expensive and is a burden on working people and taxpayers.
The Medicare entitlement deficit is absurd.
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
I'd like to know what some of you think about the ailing economy; sure it's gotten somewhat better, but people are very frugal now. I'm not sure what would happen if the market crashed again, because we have exhausted everything in our arsenal to slow/stop a downturn. Should the economy collapse, what would happen. Should the economy be left to collapse. It doesn't respond to stimuli.
Here we go again-predictions of doom, gloom and economic collapse. Ups and downs have always been part of the economy, and always will be part of the economy.
I suggest you quit believing everything you hear on television, and learn how to work with the opportunities that are available. For example, when we had the downturn in 2008 and 2009-did you buy or sell stock? If you sold you were one of the multitude of fools. If you bought, then by now you've made a lot of money on those purchases (assuming they were smart purchases to begin with). There was even a nice little buying opportunity in January and February of this year.
Jobs? There are plenty of job opportunities, but the job landscape has changed over the last 50 years. If you are just a high school grad and hope to walk into a big manufacturing plant and get a high paying job bolting widgets together then yes, you're in trouble. If you're educated, skilled, and know how to go after what you want then there are a lot of opportunities available. You can also do what millions of others have done and build your own business.
People are very frugal now? The smart ones are, but there are still plenty of people that are foolish enough to live beyond their means-just look at the number of people getting 30 year mortgages, and the number of people getting car loans that are 5, 6 and 7 years long. Even worse, there are still a lot of people leasing cars and carrying a lot of consumer/credit card debt.
No matter how good the economy is, there are always sectors that don't do as well. And no matter how bad the economy gets during downturns, there are always sectors that do well during those times. The key is to diversify yourself and your finances/savings so that you can always do well, even if we do see a downturn.
I'd like to know what some of you think about the ailing economy; sure it's gotten somewhat better, but people are very frugal now. I'm not sure what would happen if the market crashed again, because we have exhausted everything in our arsenal to slow/stop a downturn. Should the economy collapse, what would happen. Should the economy be left to collapse. It doesn't respond to stimuli.
Here we go again-predictions of doom, gloom and economic collapse. Ups and downs have always been part of the economy, and always will be part of the economy.
I suggest you quit believing everything you hear on television, and learn how to work with the opportunities that are available. For example, when we had the downturn in 2008 and 2009-did you buy or sell stock? If you sold you were one of the multitude of fools. If you bought, then by now you've made a lot of money on those purchases (assuming they were smart purchases to begin with). There was even a nice little buying opportunity in January and February of this year.
Jobs? There are plenty of job opportunities, but the job landscape has changed over the last 50 years. If you are just a high school grad and hope to walk into a big manufacturing plant and get a high paying job bolting widgets together then yes, you're in trouble. If you're educated, skilled, and know how to go after what you want then there are a lot of opportunities available. You can also do what millions of others have done and build your own business.
People are very frugal now? The smart ones are, but there are still plenty of people that are foolish enough to live beyond their means-just look at the number of people getting 30 year mortgages, and the number of people getting car loans that are 5, 6 and 7 years long. Even worse, there are still a lot of people leasing cars and carrying a lot of consumer/credit card debt.
No matter how good the economy is, there are always sectors that don't do as well. And no matter how bad the economy gets during downturns, there are always sectors that do well during those times. The key is to diversify yourself and your finances/savings so that you can always do well, even if we do see a downturn.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
You've given some pretty good information on Coconut oil out there previously, and there's some equally good information about all manner of cheap, unpatentable stuff that the medical system refuse to use.
Chase the research dollar, the charity drives, the patents, then slug the end user and insurance companies to make all of that expenditure back...then lobby to make it compulsory, or scare govt into buying $100M of the product (and at the same time work out how to make it from yeast, not Star Anise, and produce it for pennies at the current market rate)...
At least a Shaman or witch doctor was held accountable by his tribe.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
You've given some pretty good information on Coconut oil out there previously, and there's some equally good information about all manner of cheap, unpatentable stuff that the medical system refuse to use.
Chase the research dollar, the charity drives, the patents, then slug the end user and insurance companies to make all of that expenditure back...then lobby to make it compulsory, or scare govt into buying $100M of the product (and at the same time work out how to make it from yeast, not Star Anise, and produce it for pennies at the current market rate)...
At least a Shaman or witch doctor was held accountable by his tribe.
Get a job or training in HVAC, electrician, RN,CPA, plumbing and so on if your ego will let you....trade skills are good jobs, pushing paper at Dollar General, or working in mills, not so good anymore,,IMHO>
If you're a lazy bum, right now the economy is great
True- skilled trades around here have not taken a pay cut and if you're good you're busy.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Get a job or training in HVAC, electrician, RN,CPA, plumbing and so on if your ego will let you....trade skills are good jobs, pushing paper at Dollar General, or working in mills, not so good anymore,,IMHO>
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Get a job or training in HVAC, electrician, RN,CPA, plumbing and so on if your ego will let you....trade skills are good jobs, pushing paper at Dollar General, or working in mills, not so good anymore,,IMHO>
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
I'd like to know what some of you think about the ailing economy; sure it's gotten somewhat better, but people are very frugal now. I'm not sure what would happen if the market crashed again, because we have exhausted everything in our arsenal to slow/stop a downturn. Should the economy collapse, what would happen. Should the economy be left to collapse. It doesn't respond to stimuli.
Here we go again-predictions of doom, gloom and economic collapse. Ups and downs have always been part of the economy, and always will be part of the economy.
I suggest you quit believing everything you hear on television, and learn how to work with the opportunities that are available. For example, when we had the downturn in 2008 and 2009-did you buy or sell stock? If you sold you were one of the multitude of fools. If you bought, then by now you've made a lot of money on those purchases (assuming they were smart purchases to begin with). There was even a nice little buying opportunity in January and February of this year.
Jobs? There are plenty of job opportunities, but the job landscape has changed over the last 50 years. If you are just a high school grad and hope to walk into a big manufacturing plant and get a high paying job bolting widgets together then yes, you're in trouble. If you're educated, skilled, and know how to go after what you want then there are a lot of opportunities available. You can also do what millions of others have done and build your own business.
People are very frugal now? The smart ones are, but there are still plenty of people that are foolish enough to live beyond their means-just look at the number of people getting 30 year mortgages, and the number of people getting car loans that are 5, 6 and 7 years long. Even worse, there are still a lot of people leasing cars and carrying a lot of consumer/credit card debt.
No matter how good the economy is, there are always sectors that don't do as well. And no matter how bad the economy gets during downturns, there are always sectors that do well during those times. The key is to diversify yourself and your finances/savings so that you can always do well, even if we do see a downturn.
Pop,
I like a lot of your sentiment. But I see so many more areas where we (ie US politicians) have devalued so many of our skill sets. Shining example is the realm of education. Higher education is NOT for everyone. There was a time when a college degree was for those who had some drive and had enough aptitude to build upon. We've devalued the 4 year degree and an employer can no longer simply trust that academia produced a solid foundation in this potential employee. There are multitudes of young adults leaving with 4 year degrees that cannot write a solid resume nor a legitimate business letter. Higher education has become a political machine churning out students with little and sometimes no critical thinking skills. I lean heavy on education, I believe in it and it is disturbing to see how it has been devalued and watered down into a social justice basic training camp. IMHO whatever social issues the student may want to delve into is a - ok but AFTER you've actually learned something!
Financial world is just very difficult to invest in right now. A while back I invested in Alcoa; turned a short term (high tax rate) profit but was scared so I took my earnings and ran. I now invested in Travel America (TA) and am nervous but so far its ok. My kids are young but I started talking to them about compounding interest and log term investment. Scary, scary financial world we are currently in. I believe in the cyclical nature of markets but I also see such a vast chance coming with automation that will change the lanscape forever.
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
I'd like to know what some of you think about the ailing economy; sure it's gotten somewhat better, but people are very frugal now. I'm not sure what would happen if the market crashed again, because we have exhausted everything in our arsenal to slow/stop a downturn. Should the economy collapse, what would happen. Should the economy be left to collapse. It doesn't respond to stimuli.
Here we go again-predictions of doom, gloom and economic collapse. Ups and downs have always been part of the economy, and always will be part of the economy.
I suggest you quit believing everything you hear on television, and learn how to work with the opportunities that are available. For example, when we had the downturn in 2008 and 2009-did you buy or sell stock? If you sold you were one of the multitude of fools. If you bought, then by now you've made a lot of money on those purchases (assuming they were smart purchases to begin with). There was even a nice little buying opportunity in January and February of this year.
Jobs? There are plenty of job opportunities, but the job landscape has changed over the last 50 years. If you are just a high school grad and hope to walk into a big manufacturing plant and get a high paying job bolting widgets together then yes, you're in trouble. If you're educated, skilled, and know how to go after what you want then there are a lot of opportunities available. You can also do what millions of others have done and build your own business.
People are very frugal now? The smart ones are, but there are still plenty of people that are foolish enough to live beyond their means-just look at the number of people getting 30 year mortgages, and the number of people getting car loans that are 5, 6 and 7 years long. Even worse, there are still a lot of people leasing cars and carrying a lot of consumer/credit card debt.
No matter how good the economy is, there are always sectors that don't do as well. And no matter how bad the economy gets during downturns, there are always sectors that do well during those times. The key is to diversify yourself and your finances/savings so that you can always do well, even if we do see a downturn.
Pop,
I like a lot of your sentiment. But I see so many more areas where we (ie US politicians) have devalued so many of our skill sets. Shining example is the realm of education. Higher education is NOT for everyone. There was a time when a college degree was for those who had some drive and had enough aptitude to build upon. We've devalued the 4 year degree and an employer can no longer simply trust that academia produced a solid foundation in this potential employee. There are multitudes of young adults leaving with 4 year degrees that cannot write a solid resume nor a legitimate business letter. Higher education has become a political machine churning out students with little and sometimes no critical thinking skills. I lean heavy on education, I believe in it and it is disturbing to see how it has been devalued and watered down into a social justice basic training camp. IMHO whatever social issues the student may want to delve into is a - ok but AFTER you've actually learned something!
Financial world is just very difficult to invest in right now. A while back I invested in Alcoa; turned a short term (high tax rate) profit but was scared so I took my earnings and ran. I now invested in Travel America (TA) and am nervous but so far its ok. My kids are young but I started talking to them about compounding interest and log term investment. Scary, scary financial world we are currently in. I believe in the cyclical nature of markets but I also see such a vast chance coming with automation that will change the lanscape forever.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
The medical field has grown too large, too expensive and is a burden on working people and taxpayers.
The Medicare entitlement deficit is absurd.
Baloney. Agenda driven comments with little factual basis. Whatever field you work in could easily be labeled, and then you could have the Government run YOUR business. It is typical to pick someone or something to blame, why would anyone blame a field that Government and Insurance have nearly ruined?
And hello? Entitlements have NOTHING to do with your rant. That's a completely different problem...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
But the medical field is a leach on everyone not affiliated to it.
I'm sure a few medical folks would disagree with this incredibly uninformed comment...
The medical field has grown too large, too expensive and is a burden on working people and taxpayers.
The Medicare entitlement deficit is absurd.
Baloney. Agenda driven comments with little factual basis. Whatever field you work in could easily be labeled, and then you could have the Government run YOUR business. It is typical to pick someone or something to blame, why would anyone blame a field that Government and Insurance have nearly ruined?
And hello? Entitlements have NOTHING to do with your rant. That's a completely different problem...
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