wemay
Site Donor 2023
For a while i thought QState oils did, but i realized after going back to Mobil, Kendall, MAG1, Castrol etc., no difference, just mind tricks. At least for me.
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What synthetic oil will make valvetrain quieter?
- Thread starter GM4LIFE
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Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
tig1,
I wasn't referring to Amsoil testing. I was referring to BITOG members UOA results on this forum showing how well Pennzoil Ultra Platinum did vs. Mobil 1. They are both very good oils with awesome results.
I was referring to "KUATO" about Amsoil testing.
tig1,
I wasn't referring to Amsoil testing. I was referring to BITOG members UOA results on this forum showing how well Pennzoil Ultra Platinum did vs. Mobil 1. They are both very good oils with awesome results.
I was referring to "KUATO" about Amsoil testing.
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Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 is also well documented by many of us here at BITOG and many folks that I know to produce very quiet engines. As for test, aren't you speaking of the test that Amsoil runs themselves, comparing Amsoil to other brands that they call out by name? Just askin.
Not speaking about their own tests, but rather everyone else's - UOAs, PQIA, etc. Amsoil has not, as OP said, ever failed to give good service.. Not saying M1 has failed, as mentioned earlier it is a great oil too.
M1 is also well documented by many of us here at BITOG and many folks that I know to produce very quiet engines. As for test, aren't you speaking of the test that Amsoil runs themselves, comparing Amsoil to other brands that they call out by name? Just askin.
Not speaking about their own tests, but rather everyone else's - UOAs, PQIA, etc. Amsoil has not, as OP said, ever failed to give good service.. Not saying M1 has failed, as mentioned earlier it is a great oil too.
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Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
tig1,
I wasn't referring to Amsoil testing. I was referring to BITOG members UOA results on this forum showing how well Pennzoil Ultra Platinum did vs. Mobil 1. They are both very good oils with awesome results.
I was referring to "KUATO" about Amsoil testing.
Oh, ok! I misunderstood.
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
tig1,
I wasn't referring to Amsoil testing. I was referring to BITOG members UOA results on this forum showing how well Pennzoil Ultra Platinum did vs. Mobil 1. They are both very good oils with awesome results.
I was referring to "KUATO" about Amsoil testing.
Oh, ok! I misunderstood.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Hohn
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
I wanted to stick with the 5W30 weight as that is what GM strongly recommends. They say never to run a thicker oil other than 5W30.
It's important to recognize that there are considerations OTHER than engine longevity that can drive a strong OEM recommendation.
For example, almost all the 20-wt oils are recommended because the slight fuel economy benefit associated with them was used in achieving CAFE measured performance. EPA then wants to know how manufacturer will prevent customer from using thicker (lower mpg) oil. OEM goes to EPA with all the scary manual stuff end firm recommendations against the thicker stuff, EVEN if it might make the engine last longer.
Qualifications: I work as an engine engineer for a large engine company, and have had conversations with world-class tribologists about this kind of thing.
Well,
Luckily the theory of 0w20 or 5w20 not being up to the task of lubricating to the standards of thicker viscosities hasn't come to fruition. High mileage Toyota, Ford and Honda's being the pudding.
I keep hearing that 20 grades will shorten engine life but I'm just no seeing it.
In today's disposable world maybe we won't see worn out engines. They outlast the body and suspensions and the rust that sends many vehicles to the boneyard.
I have been on the thicker is better side forever however thanks to bitog I've seen the light.
20 grades keep vehicles on the road for at least as many miles as we've ever seen,so why not net that extra 1/2 mpg.
Id rather have those nickels in my pocket than handing them over to the gas station.
Originally Posted By: Hohn
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
I wanted to stick with the 5W30 weight as that is what GM strongly recommends. They say never to run a thicker oil other than 5W30.
It's important to recognize that there are considerations OTHER than engine longevity that can drive a strong OEM recommendation.
For example, almost all the 20-wt oils are recommended because the slight fuel economy benefit associated with them was used in achieving CAFE measured performance. EPA then wants to know how manufacturer will prevent customer from using thicker (lower mpg) oil. OEM goes to EPA with all the scary manual stuff end firm recommendations against the thicker stuff, EVEN if it might make the engine last longer.
Qualifications: I work as an engine engineer for a large engine company, and have had conversations with world-class tribologists about this kind of thing.
Well,
Luckily the theory of 0w20 or 5w20 not being up to the task of lubricating to the standards of thicker viscosities hasn't come to fruition. High mileage Toyota, Ford and Honda's being the pudding.
I keep hearing that 20 grades will shorten engine life but I'm just no seeing it.
In today's disposable world maybe we won't see worn out engines. They outlast the body and suspensions and the rust that sends many vehicles to the boneyard.
I have been on the thicker is better side forever however thanks to bitog I've seen the light.
20 grades keep vehicles on the road for at least as many miles as we've ever seen,so why not net that extra 1/2 mpg.
Id rather have those nickels in my pocket than handing them over to the gas station.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Hohn
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
I wanted to stick with the 5W30 weight as that is what GM strongly recommends. They say never to run a thicker oil other than 5W30.
It's important to recognize that there are considerations OTHER than engine longevity that can drive a strong OEM recommendation.
For example, almost all the 20-wt oils are recommended because the slight fuel economy benefit associated with them was used in achieving CAFE measured performance. EPA then wants to know how manufacturer will prevent customer from using thicker (lower mpg) oil. OEM goes to EPA with all the scary manual stuff end firm recommendations against the thicker stuff, EVEN if it might make the engine last longer.
Qualifications: I work as an engine engineer for a large engine company, and have had conversations with world-class tribologists about this kind of thing.
Well,
Luckily the theory of 0w20 or 5w20 not being up to the task of lubricating to the standards of thicker viscosities hasn't come to fruition. High mileage Toyota, Ford and Honda's being the pudding.
I keep hearing that 20 grades will shorten engine life but I'm just no seeing it.
In today's disposable world maybe we won't see worn out engines. They outlast the body and suspensions and the rust that sends many vehicles to the boneyard.
I have been on the thicker is better side forever however thanks to bitog I've seen the light.
20 grades keep vehicles on the road for at least as many miles as we've ever seen,so why not net that extra 1/2 mpg.
Id rather have those nickels in my pocket than handing them over to the gas station.
I agree. I even asked GM Engineering to relay a question to their lube engineers to see if I can run a 0W20 or 5W20 and their answer was "NO!" and to keep using 5W30 grade. Not thinner and not thicker. I don't see what the big deal is. Is thinner oil going to be worse for my engine? I seriously doubt it or maybe they know something I don't.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Hohn
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
I wanted to stick with the 5W30 weight as that is what GM strongly recommends. They say never to run a thicker oil other than 5W30.
It's important to recognize that there are considerations OTHER than engine longevity that can drive a strong OEM recommendation.
For example, almost all the 20-wt oils are recommended because the slight fuel economy benefit associated with them was used in achieving CAFE measured performance. EPA then wants to know how manufacturer will prevent customer from using thicker (lower mpg) oil. OEM goes to EPA with all the scary manual stuff end firm recommendations against the thicker stuff, EVEN if it might make the engine last longer.
Qualifications: I work as an engine engineer for a large engine company, and have had conversations with world-class tribologists about this kind of thing.
Well,
Luckily the theory of 0w20 or 5w20 not being up to the task of lubricating to the standards of thicker viscosities hasn't come to fruition. High mileage Toyota, Ford and Honda's being the pudding.
I keep hearing that 20 grades will shorten engine life but I'm just no seeing it.
In today's disposable world maybe we won't see worn out engines. They outlast the body and suspensions and the rust that sends many vehicles to the boneyard.
I have been on the thicker is better side forever however thanks to bitog I've seen the light.
20 grades keep vehicles on the road for at least as many miles as we've ever seen,so why not net that extra 1/2 mpg.
Id rather have those nickels in my pocket than handing them over to the gas station.
I agree. I even asked GM Engineering to relay a question to their lube engineers to see if I can run a 0W20 or 5W20 and their answer was "NO!" and to keep using 5W30 grade. Not thinner and not thicker. I don't see what the big deal is. Is thinner oil going to be worse for my engine? I seriously doubt it or maybe they know something I don't.
Some engines may have lower oil pressure at full-temp than ideal probably that's your first concern. In colder environments; e.g. during winter up north in US/Canada, then an app that generally runs 5w-30 may be just fine with 0w-20 if you rarely see temps above freezing and get those single digit and minus readings a lot. However, this is mainly an improved cold flow and for short tripping. If you still see severe duty in the winter in terms of workload on the engine; even though colder ambient, you will still run into the concern over dropping the grade low to the point its HTHS numbers may be somewhat concerning and you'd probably first see oil pressure readings dip lower than you normal see at full temp with 5w30, etc.
That's the gist anyway. The specifics depend on your app, age of engine, how much wear is already present, etc. A tired oil pump may not like going thinner if the OE grade is showing minimums on the oil pressure. For example, this engine approaching 300k and being a 1992 I don't really want to risk the oil pressure dropping too much by going to a 0w-20. Is it possible? Sure. Do I want to risk it? No. Maybe I am a bit too conservative, but it is my only vehicle, so...someone else first?
Honestly, I could get away with it BUT as I said if my oil pump is tired that'd probably be the first thing to show and I don't REALLY want to risk oil pressure dropping and having any more wear to the crankshaft/bearings/rods at this age than need be. At some point, you want to give yourself more head room for protection. In newer vehicles that can handle whatever full-temp discrepancy 'may' be present I don't think you'd run into any problems long-term with regular service. Again, YMMV per app and usage.
That's the gist anyway. The specifics depend on your app, age of engine, how much wear is already present, etc. A tired oil pump may not like going thinner if the OE grade is showing minimums on the oil pressure. For example, this engine approaching 300k and being a 1992 I don't really want to risk the oil pressure dropping too much by going to a 0w-20. Is it possible? Sure. Do I want to risk it? No. Maybe I am a bit too conservative, but it is my only vehicle, so...someone else first?
Honestly, I could get away with it BUT as I said if my oil pump is tired that'd probably be the first thing to show and I don't REALLY want to risk oil pressure dropping and having any more wear to the crankshaft/bearings/rods at this age than need be. At some point, you want to give yourself more head room for protection. In newer vehicles that can handle whatever full-temp discrepancy 'may' be present I don't think you'd run into any problems long-term with regular service. Again, YMMV per app and usage.
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