What should i say to custumers at my job?

[icruse]

Gee, this is such an interesting thread I just can't help but jump in.
My observation of the Mobil 1 SuperSyn is along this line.
1) I have used Mobil 1 for years and have 3000 miles on the 0W30 SuperSyn and it is still on the full mark. Car runs great, quiet, and very good mpg. (By the way do I have enough mileage for a test sample that would mean anything? How and where to go for it?)

2) Reading many of the different forums and MUCH of the DISINFORMATION (man some folks are shameless: write before thinking and then do not retract, but THIS IS THE BEST SITE for information and facts, as well as opinions) anyway, I believe that the folks who are in the top line car business and REALLY do care about their reputations in the dog eat dog world of cars, are concerned about the performance of these cars, such as:
Corvette, Viper, Porsche, and Mercedes-Benz AMG; just to name a few.

So like some have already said, the verdict is still out, but I believe Mobil 1 is innocent until PROVEN guilty!

Good Day,
Steven

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

quote:

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Originally posted by JonC:

Bob's Timken machine has no relevance to how an oil will perform in an engine - it just shows how well oil performs at room temperature in a Timken machine. There may be something in the formulation of Mobil 1 that makes it work well at the temperatures and pressures found in an engine. Maybe not, but the Timken machine will not tell us the answer.
Jon

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I agree and disagree with you. This machine isn't relevant in the scientific world but here is a point to consider.. EVERY OIL, not just a few but EVERY OIL I have put on there, including the M1 trisynth, has plated up, EXCEPT the supersyn.

Another point, this machine starts out at ambient temps just like a car oil. Now as friction is applied, what does that produce? yep, heat. The longer the oil takes to plate up, the hotter it gets. Don't tell me it doesn't have the temps that is in an engine to activate the barrier properties as you missed the 101 in timken basic mechanics. That machine can produce more friction than in a regular motor therefore also produce enough heat to activate any barrier additive for this purpose. If the barrier additive cannot be activated by the amount of friction/heat on this machine, then again, I'd hate to stress my motor to that extremes to get this stuff to start activating it.

I do agree, that the ultimate answer is through oil analysis and not just one but under many conditions.

BTW, welcome to the board

[ July 19, 2002, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[JonC]

Bob, you make some valid points on the legitimacy of the Timken machine, though I still don't buy that there's a direct correlation between performance on the Timken and performance in an engine. As we both agree,the proof will be in analysis'.

Also, you state that the Supersyn was the ONLY oil that didn't plate up on your machine. Based on your machine, this would make Mobil 1 Supersyn the worst oil that you have ever tested. I find it hard to believe that Mobil 1 would go through the expense and effort to develop the worst performing oil sold in America.

Jon

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by icruse:
Gee, this is such an interesting thread I just can't help but jump in.
My observation of the Mobil 1 SuperSyn is along this line.
1) I have used Mobil 1 for years and have 3000 miles on the 0W30 SuperSyn and it is still on the full mark. Car runs great, quiet, and very good mpg. (By the way do I have enough mileage for a test sample that would mean anything? How and where to go for it?)

---

Steve, most of us on here use Terry Dyson for our analysis:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/terry.html

He's a regular contributor on here and will fully explain the analysis results better than Blackstone or OAI or any of the other more expensive services out there.

For a more meaningful sample you should try and go to 5 or 6k first though, as any oil should easily go 3k and still be in good shape.

 

[carl97ss]

i'm running 10w30 sypersyn in a maxima that has 2000 miles on the oil. i need to get another 1100 miles to then match it off against the trisynthetic that was in before for 3100 miles. I will post when i get all the numbers/

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by carl97ss:
i'm running 10w30 sypersyn in a maxima that has 2000 miles on the oil. i need to get another 1100 miles to then match it off against the trisynthetic that was in before for 3100 miles. I will post when i get all the numbers/

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Excellent! That is the best way to figure this out too, run two identical intervals, in the same car, one with old formula, one with new formula. I'm doing the same with my wife's car, but with a new added twist now. She's at 2k on the current batch of SJ TriSynthetic, then when it hits 5k I'm going to switch her car to the rather rare SL formula TriSynthetic, which was only out for a short time. I'll run it for 5k and then put in the SuperSyn. The SuperSyn is STILL not out in Canada yet! (we just got the SL TriSynth recently!) So by the time all is said and done, I'll have three oil analysis results and we can see which of those three Mobil 1 formulas worked out the best. My wife does mostly short trip driving too, although she goes back to work shortly (she's been on maternity leave) so she'll put the miles on a little faster (although not as fast as me, I do about 350 miles per week or more while she will probably do 200-250 once she's back to work) So it'll be a little while before all of my results are in!

 

[MikeMLS]

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel:
Mike,

Are you going to run oil analysis or are you going to change out your oil on a hard time. If you are going to change out your oil every 3000-5000 miles any SL oil will work. But if you are going to extend your drain intervals a better oil like the Mobil 1, Schaeffers, Redline, or Amsoil might be a better choice and give you piece of mind. You just need to be carefull because if your oil is bad you don't want to be driving on it for an extended period of time.

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Thank you Joel! I'll be trying to keep oil changes in the 3,000 to 5,000 mile range, mostly leaning to 3,000 while the warranty is still in effect. I do want to switch to a syn after 6-9,000 so I can have a great running engine that outlasts the car

(too poor to be buying new cars every 6 years)

Bob...thank you and the rest of the guys for the great insight

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

You know what? I might be hanging my You Know Whats out ready to be chopped off, and this would not be the first time this has happend

I will agree with you dragboat "I don't think it was meant for a race car so with that said in a driver loafing around in overdrive on the hiway or any other engine that is not highly stressed I would bet it is some good stuff" But why in the world would a driver under those conditions require a high price full synth when a standard SL grade dino will do the same? I have seen/ heard more evidence to show it is over rated in comparison to the trisynth.

Timken only shows barrier additive levels, and every oil I have put on that machine has plated up at one point or another where as this supersyn did not at all. Second, posted numbers didn't show all that well IMO. third, someone state that the Flash point is lower than trisynth(haven't verified for myself) . Forth, I'm hearing reports from all over about how engine slap is more pronounced with this oil among other little tid bits of personal opinions. Just way too many things point to a lesser quality than the trisynth they prev had. No doubt, there should be good analysis as for wear #'s but under what conditions and mileage vs the prices vs what a comparable SL dino could do. I suspect there will be very little advantage to that oil in comparision.

AGAIN, THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND NOT TO BE TAKEN AS FACT. there guys, that should make ya all happy.

 

[dragboat]

Quote:
But why in the world would a driver under those conditions require a high price full synth when a standard SL grade dino will do the same?"

Well for an example,my Mothers car that gets warmed up properly but only leaves town say once a month. The 5 quart jugs of Supersyn at Walmart are 17.37 or 3.47 a quart or around 20.00 per change with a Supertech filter. With that oils superior cold flow characteristics and the fact that the Sythetics seems to have cleaning abilities of it's own makes for a possibility that Dragboat ,who maintains that car now to possibly be able to extend oil changes in terms of more months between changes would be one example of how it might excell over a Dino in certain driving patterns .

Just a thought though

 

[sprintman]

A perspective on Timken testing from downunder!
Last Friday I drove from Canberra to Melbourne (400 miles) for 24hrs of oil/additive testing at Ronn, my friend/business partner place. He runs a forklift service company so oil/grease/additive performance are vital to his keeping afloat. An ex RAAF fighter pilot and ultralight owner he travels extensively around Oz advising on lubes etc. We had the Redline state manager with us until 2:00am saturday taking notes etc on his and opposition products. We retested many Redline engine/gear oils and some old favourites too. One some now aged and dark M1 0W40 TS (when new almost clear). It still amazes us and Mr. Redline too. The lube/plating ability comes in very early compared to any other oil tested with just a low amount of heat buildup in the oil bath. Then up to 100lbs pressure without a problem. Next some Redline 10W40 street. Didn't want to plate/lube and basicaly wanted outa there big time. BUT, here's the smoking gun. With much coaxing at low to medium pressure until there was real temperature in the bath it started to do its job. Finally 100-120lbs on torque wrench (getting close to the limit of out measurement capability) no burning/blackening of the oil and bearing, small wear scar. Mr. Redline happy now, should be too. Tested many others again to recheck previous tests and IMHO Helix Ultra syn still bloody ordinary, but we recognise the limits of what this type of testing shows. We also had a look at Pennzoil 10W30 SL dino, which I'm using after an Auto-Rx clean and the best dino tested yet (good one Johnny!!).
Its apparent that every oil tested has markedly different characteristics and some require very high temperature to do their thing. IMHO this may be why M1 10W30 SS performed so poorly on Bob's Timken machine? We don't have Mobil SS here yet, hopefully soon, so we can have another look. Next weekend Rons flying up here and this time Delvac 1 will be tested along with some BP visco 5000 5W40 syn, their top locally available oil. I think I've found Chevron Delo 400 under another brand (Caltex) which is 50% owned by Chevron Texaco. Castrol 0W30 SLX syn will get a run provided I can find a smaller bottle (I refuse to give Castrol A$85 for 5 litres to see if itis any good). And last I love your great US made Militec-1 metal treatment. Last time we added that to M1 0W40 at an oil seminar we hit 150lbs and then the drive shaft snapped, dropping the whole shebang on the floor. Nothing like burning a smoking hole in a hired Motels conference room carpet to get their undivided attention!

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

quote:

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by sprintman "IMHO this may be why M1 10W30 SS performed so poorly on Bob's Timken machine"

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sprintman, Sorry but to prove my point on the heat issue, go to your machine, put in a fresh bearing, now start grinding it metal against metal and take temp readings. I just went out there and burnt a harden timken bearing. The measurable heat on the top side of the bearing(not where the bearing was meeting and grinding at the surface but on top of the bearing) was at 302deg before I stopped. So you think maybe I didn't produce enough heat? Remember, I have over 4yrs experience putting oils on this machine and this was the first time I could not get it to plate. like patman said, maybe I got a bad batch. To also prove a point on the supersyn, look at the bearing result picture
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/videos/bearingresults.jpg and you'll see that the grind spot I had on the mobil was much bigger than even where I did a metal to metal grind. This ought to prove that I gave the SS more time to plate and every other oil's grind spot is a lot smaller due to the fact they actually plated long before I ever got to the grind spot of M1 supersyn which had created a much higher heat level than any other. Again, If I have to stress my motor to that extreme levels of temp to activate the barrier additives, well, nuf said.

[ July 20, 2002, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[sprintman]

Bob

Well as I said just a thought after Redline acted strangely. Can't wait to get some SuperSyn M1 and test the you know what out of it!

 

[widman]

Good thread. Getting bak to the original question, I answer that every day. Most of my sales are Group I SL/CI-4 ($2.38/qt-in drums), then Group II SL/CI-4($2.50/qt-in drums), finally Synthetic ($7.58/qt). I make the least on Group I because there are 32 competing brands in the market. There is one other synthetic and no other Group II. The average Engineer or Architect makes $1,000 a month and a 4Runner costs $40,000 without leather. (a qt of oil costs more than a haircut)
So what do I tell customers? If you want the very best, get the synthetic. Extend the life of your engine. If you are thinking oil is oil, at least get the Group I SL/CI-4 (only one on the market), not the SJ/CF-4 or SF/CD. If you understand a little about oil and can sacrifice a beer or a couple of smokes, go for the Group II. If you are running an air-cooled engine, go for the Group II or synthetic.