What oil should i use for my car now? {knowledge-expertise required)

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I need some expert advice regarding which oil is best to use for my car- it's not a simple answer btw so let me start with all the details:
Car: Citroen ds3 1.6 thp power output 155bhp: Manufacturer recommends a 0w30 total oil c2 low saps oil.

But...

I have added a few performance upgrades on my car (bigger turbo-bigger intercooler-2.5inch exhaust with racing cat) all internals though are stock. My car now delivers 233bhp. Mileage is low, 30.00km (around 22.000 miles). Also i live in a hot summer country, my driving style is daily normal driving except for about once a month that i will drive it hard on a B road or in a bit of high speed 6th gear in the highway. I am not doing any track days-motorsport

I have two different advices:
1. From two oil company sales people, both told me that i have to stick with the manufacturer's recommendations since i haven't change the engine 's pistons or valves and also my car has relatively low mileage. If i change to a higher grade oil such as a 5w40 it will only cause damage to my engine in the long term (carbon buildingup on valves..reduced power etc. ) and also i should avoid any motorsport oil as it's good for racing but not good for everyday driving.

2. The second opinion comes from a few mechanics i talked to for advice. They suggested me exactly the opposite. Since my car now is running an increased power there will be more heat created and more strain in the engine internals so I should use a 5w40 oil for extra protection and also I can consider a motorsport oil because they have added additives such as esters / nano technology that will give extra protection to my engine.

As my knowledge for oils is very limited and also with a bit of research on the internet I didn't cameup with a clear answer as to what oil I should use
I hope there are some people with good knowledge about oils that can help me with my issue to decide which oil should i use now?
 
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155
Location
Connecticut
In USA it seems like 0w40 in whatever brand you want is the most popular flavor for modified/tuned cars. You'd still get a lighter weight at startup but a heavier hot weight.
 

SR5

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5,898
Location
Down Under
That C2 oil is mid-SAPS with a minimum HTHS of 2.9 cP.

You could step it up to a C3 oil which is also mid-SAPS but has a minimum HTHS of 3.5 cP. The increased HTHS will increase the oil viscosity for more protection with your higher power output, but everything else should be much the same.

It should be easy enough to find a quality full synthetic C3 oil in either 0W30 or 5W30 (or a 40 grade). You could also look for a few other high quality OEM specs like MB 229.51 to go with the base C3 spec.
 
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3,471
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Parts Unknown
Are you tuned for those mods? That would be my main concern.
Of course he is. Why put a bigger turbo to run the stock boost and mapping?

Not to mention the CEL from the high flow cat.

C2 is mid-saps according to ACEA, but with lower HTHS
C3 is also mid-saps, but with higher HTHS, 3.5 MPa minimum

If you want low-saps, but with the higher HTHS, then that's C4
 
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5,035
Location
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
When you upgraded the amount of HP that engine can produce, you upgraded the amount of heat it has to get rid of. My concern if it were mine, would be to upgrade the cooling system. If the cooling system is able to get rid of the extra heat so that on hot days the engine still runs at approximately the same temperature range it would be at on hot days before it had the modifications added, then you have solved a lot of the problems that increasing the HP can cause. If you have not increased the cooling systems abilities yet give that as much thought or more than what oil you should be using.

As to the oil. If you live in a hot climate where it never gets below 40 F then you might want to consider an oil where the first number is 5W instead of 0W. A 5W for the first number will hold up better in hot operating conditions. And you do not need the 0W winter performance.

As to 30 or 40 for the top number, if the cooling system is keeping the engine cool enough then a 30 probably is still good enough.

I am not an oil specialist. Just someone who has been using BITOG for a while, and has seen enough modified cars overheat because the owner did not upgrade the cooling system when they increased the amount of HP it produces. I've also seen them break universal joints, rear-end yokes, and rear-ends when they increase the HP. But if you are concerned about the engine, I would put time and money into the cooling system if it were mine.
 

Chris430s

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Thanks for all your replies.. Ofcourse i have a tuned program for my upgrade parts so that the engine works fine and also I upgraded the cooling system with a bigger intercooler- wet wetter and upgraded radiator hoses.
As for the oils there are so many and they all claim to be excellent in cold start, high temperatures, protection against wear etc.
I don't know if the date sheet can help to see which oil is of better quality? I have the data specs from 3 different oil manufacturers :

1. Miller's oil XF Premium c2 5w30 full synthetic- Mid Saps

6229-XF-Premium-C2-5w30.pdf (millersoils.co.uk)

2. Quartz Ineo First 0w30 Low Saps (as recommended by citroen)

Viscosity grade - SAE J300 0W-30
Kinematic viscosity at 40°C mm²/s ASTM D445 50.1
Kinematic viscosity at 100°C mm²/s ASTM D445 9.8
Density at 15°C kg/m3 ASTM D1298 843 Viscosity index - ASTM D2270 187
Pour point °C ASTM D97 -48 OC
Flash point °C ASTM D92 234

3. Ardeca 5w30 Pure Sports Double Ester mid saps oil

Density at 15 °Ckg/l0.854
Viscosity -30 °CmPas5630
Viscosity 40 °Cmm²/s71.60
Viscosity 100 °Cmm²/s12.10
Viscosity Index167
Flash Point COC°C234
Pour Point°C-36
Total Base NumbermgKOH/g8.3
Sulphate Ash%0.74


To be honest i have no idea what this numbers mean and if by these numbers we can determine which oil is the best of the three mentioned?
 
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5,035
Location
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
While I can completely understand upgrading the intercooler when you added a bigger turbo, I was referring to the radiator and fans when I suggested upgrading the cooling system. I have seen people with modified engine stuck with vehicles that would not restart after they shut them off because the engine produced too much heat for the stock cooling system. Along with the radiator and fans, if you can it would be good to upgrade the water pump.

Cooling is a big deal when it comes to keeping a modified engine running reliably for several years and it is often one of the last things people think about.

Burn more fuel, make more heat, including heat that is transferred to the engine. You've got to get rid of that extra heat somewhere or the temperature of the engine will be much higher than normal, and if that is allowed to happen it leads to bad things.

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One of the worst I ever saw was a young man who modified his engine to increase the HP and left the cowling off around the fan. Without that the fan drew much less air through the radiator. A double whammy, make more heat and decrease the cooling.

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But more common were the ones that increased the HP and just stayed with the stock cooling system and had problems.
 

SR5

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5,898
Location
Down Under
OP, which country are you based in ? Just to help with oil selection, as some members here may know your area and what oils are available.

Fundamentally you want a name brand, full synthetic oil, that is rated ACEA C3 in a 5W30 or 0W30.

Then once you have a short list, buy either on price, or look for extra OEM specs like Dexos2, MB 229.51, BMW LL-04, VW etc.

Of the three options above, 1 and 2 look like C2 oils (lower HTHS, lower viscosity), but I think you need to step it up to a C3 oil (higher HTHS, higher viscosity, same SAPS level) for your extra power and heat load. Option number 3 looks about right, but I don’t know the brand and you don’t give the specifications ( eg API, ACEA, etc).

Can you get Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 ? That is what I would use, or something similar from Mobil 1 or Castrol Edge
 

Chris430s

Thread starter
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26
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OP, which country are you based in ? Just to help with oil selection, as some members here may know your area and what oils are available.

Fundamentally you want a name brand, full synthetic oil, that is rated ACEA C3 in a 5W30 or 0W30.

Then once you have a short list, buy either on price, or look for extra OEM specs like Dexos2, MB 229.51, BMW LL-04, VW etc.

Of the three options above, 1 and 2 look like C2 oils (lower HTHS, lower viscosity), but I think you need to step it up to a C3 oil (higher HTHS, higher viscosity, same SAPS level) for your extra power and heat load. Option number 3 looks about right, but I don’t know the brand and you don’t give the specifications ( eg API, ACEA, etc).

Can you get Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 ? That is what I would use, or something similar from Mobil 1 or Castrol Edge
Hi again
I write the brands also on my first sentence :). 1. Miller's oil . 2. Total 3. Ardeca , the only 0w30 is the total the other two are 5w30. Miller and Ardeca are c3, total is c2

I live in Greece mild winter temps and hot summer , but on a very hot day I will not push my car , looking after my engine
 
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186
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The Netherlands
I am pretty familiar with Peugeot and this is the same engine that Peugeot also uses in their 208 T16 4wd rally cars with 280hp 1.6T under rally circumstances (one of the thougest that are out there)

I've looked at peugeot-sport store (their shop for rally teams) and they recommend the total ineo 0w30 first. (as been said before)
A10 Engine assembly (peugeotsport-store.com)

I guess they put a lot of money in R&D and testing this engine on the dyno with proven results so i would stick with this oil.
Or oil with the same viscosity and specs. (personally i have good results with Shell helix)

But i would not go to a thicker grade or change specs.

Thinner oil flows faster, cools better, free's up more hp, better engine response etc...
 

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30
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England
I am surprised no one has suggested a decent oil cooler setup? That'd negate most of the issues with higher heat etc. You could get a thermostatic controlled one that opens only at a certain temperature. That way you keep the quick warm up and also have cooler oil.
 
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186
Location
The Netherlands
I am surprised no one has suggested a decent oil cooler setup? That'd negate most of the issues with higher heat etc. You could get a thermostatic controlled one that opens only at a certain temperature. That way you keep the quick warm up and also have cooler oil.
The 1.6 T engines have oil to water heat exchanger so its not really neccesary, also the turbo is watercooled so cooling is not really an issue with these.
 

Chris430s

Thread starter
Messages
26
Location
🇨🇾
I am pretty familiar with Peugeot and this is the same engine that Peugeot also uses in their 208 T16 4wd rally cars with 280hp 1.6T under rally circumstances (one of the thougest that are out there)

I've looked at peugeot-sport store (their shop for rally teams) and they recommend the total ineo 0w30 first. (as been said before)
A10 Engine assembly (peugeotsport-store.com)

I guess they put a lot of money in R&D and testing this engine on the dyno with proven results so i would stick with this oil.
Or oil with the same viscosity and specs. (personally i have good results with Shell helix)

But i would not go to a thicker grade or change specs.

Thinner oil flows faster, cools better, free's up more hp, better engine response etc...
A few weeks ago I had a call with a Castrol technical rep and he advice me not to assume my engine is the same as the 208gti or any more powerful models having the same 1.6 turbo engine, the pistons on the more powerful engines are different and also the bore of the pistons so I should look at manufacturer recommendation+ the weather condition in my country, I don't know if he was correct
 
Messages
186
Location
The Netherlands
A few weeks ago I had a call with a Castrol technical rep and he advice me not to assume my engine is the same as the 208gti or any more powerful models having the same 1.6 turbo engine, the pistons on the more powerful engines are different and also the bore of the pistons so I should look at manufacturer recommendation+ the weather condition in my country, I don't know if he was correct
They did change between compression ratios for some models and a slightly different turbo. Other then that al the 1.6 thp engines are identical, especially in terms of lubrication.
 
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