Help choosing oil to keep my Civic Type R running forever

[Hohn]

Thanks guys. I appreciate it but the others are much more knowledgeable than I. I do have unique experiences in the automotive world I can bring to the table with the amount of engines I’ve torn down. Being factory trained by some engineers and having worked with them on problem vehicles has been interesting. I also have a lot of common sense and critical thinking skills. I consider oil and filters one of my hobbies. Never stop learning is the best advice I was ever given.

Well said. ^^

Many members of this sight have particular experience or qualifications that are quite insightful to our membership.

I hope I earn my keep here, and I appreciate that my verbosity is tolerated. I've always been a bit of a nonconformist who questions the conventional wisdom that (in my experience) has so often proven wrong. It also means I've rediscovered the wheel more than once and found ways to reason myself into circles from over-analysis.

While the intent behind it is flattering, I don't like the idea of a cool kid list that seems to devalue the contributions of other members not named. I suspect many on here with professional experience would feel similarly.

I'm just a nerd who really enjoys nerding out with things I find interesting. Oil and engines are near the top of my list.

 

[Brian123]

I have not had a chance recently.

This Thread is at 28 pages now, so we need to figure this out.

the last two drives, normal speeds on freeway and rural highway, the highest I observed was 195

That sounds perfect for a 5W-30 motor oil!

I understand that the oil temp is "calculated" from the water temp... so I am not sure how accurate it might be

The Oil temperature and the water temperature can be different, that is why we have or some of us have oil temperature gauges. Are you giving me Coolant Temperature Readings? This is going to be simple, if you have an infrared gun, do your normal drive thing and when you get home aim the infrared gun at your oil pan and report back with the number compared to the Water Temp on your Gauge.

Another thought is you might be able to plug into your computer on your car, back in the day OBII port or something and get a reading!

 

[Randomly Tired]

What are you trying to accomplish with Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 you can’t do with Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0W-40? That is off the shelf at Walmart, and $27.

As far as “if Amsoil is worth it,” much ink has been spilled here on that topic. The main benefit is long drain intervals. I’d just Google, and you’ll find more threads

The Mobil 1 ESP X4 0W-40 has a higher HTHS and cSt, so there is more shearing resistance compared to 0W-40 from what I've seen from VOAs and the information on the site. So it does seem a bit better for my use. The 5 qt jugs are really convenient though lol.

And yes, thats actually a good point you made about Amsoil, I did forget the their niche are really long extended OCIs

 

[tired]

if you have an infrared gun, do your normal drive thing and when you get home aim the infrared gun at your oil pan and report back with the number compared to the Water Temp on your Gauge.

This is a great idea. I don't have a thermometer for my oil temp either, so this is a nice way to check it.

 

[tired]

The Mobil 1 ESP X4 0W-40 has a higher HTHS and cSt, so there is more shearing resistance compared to 0W-40 from what I've seen from VOAs and the information on the site.

Where are you finding HTHS for Mobil 1 Full Synthetic?

Totally up to you. Personally I would not pay more than Amsoil for Mobil 1, but it's a personal decision.

If you want both worlds, you can get Amsoil Euro FS 5W-40 for $8.31/quart.

I do not now who is buying Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 for $11+/quart, but a fool and his money...

 

[Randomly Tired]

Where are you finding HTHS for Mobil 1 Full Synthetic?

Totally up to you. Personally I would not pay more than Amsoil for Mobil 1, but it's a personal decision.

If you want both worlds, you can get Amsoil Euro FS 5W-40 for $8.31/quart.

I do not now who is buying Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 for $11+/quart, but a fool and his money...

You are right. Im way overthinking this. I'll just go with the Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0W-40. $27 for 5 quarts is so low and its a high quality oil. Im literally splitting hairs over this. I hate Walmart with a burning passion and its inconvenient to go there but the local auto store down the street has this right next to the Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 I buy so I'll just get this.

Thank you for your help

 

[tired]

I hate Walmart with a burning passion and its inconvenient to go there

Ordering online with pickup is nice, and if you order enough, you get free delivery too so you don't have to go.

I agree. It's really hard to beat it, especially for $27/jug.

 

[thetricky]

HPL is going to make a recommendation based the information provided to them.

Do we know how the question was posed to HPL? "What the best oil for my CTR"? is a very open ended question that invites a lot of reasonable, but potential invalid assumptions for how the car is used, where it used, the desired oil drain, etc. Track use only vs aggressive canyon carving on weekends vs boring commuter duty-- those are three different usages with likely three different recommendations.

And that's just in one geographic region.

Different premises mean different conclusions. If my understanding of the OP's desires and constraints is wrong or my understanding of lube formulation tradeoffs is wrong, then so is the recommendation I derive from that.

I've tried my best to make my reasoning clear enough for someone to scrutinize in exhaustive detail and make their own assessment. I'm probably overstating the utility of having no VII in terms of extra cleanliness and shear stability. I'm probably being a bit too concerned with dilution after seeing my Honda turn 5w-30 into 5w-16 from dilution. Heck, this CTR might not dilute oil at all like my K20C4.

I've offered my opinion and thoroughly laid out how I arrived at the conclusion. Change the premises, get a different conclusion.

Hopefully even if a reader disagrees with my conclusion he can at least see how I arrived at it and point to a specific difference of premise that would drive a different conclusion. I'm ok with making errors of fact or assumption, it's errors of reasoning that I take more seriously and dearly hope I have avoided.

He lives in cali, super mild year-round environment for vehicle and lube operation no matter what you are doing. Nothing wrong with getting into the weeds on a subject, I do it all the time however, where do you stop and just make the call?

OP could run ANY of HPL’s offerings with stellar results, the only differences being OCI lengths. Baffles me that he is even more confused about lube choice after talking with them. Not sure on his experience, however they have been incredibly thorough with answering my questions. They have built up good relationships with great results on here, Trust them, run the lube!

 

[Hohn]

Well said. ^^

Many members of this sight have particular experience or qualifications that are quite insightful to our membership.

I hope I earn my keep here, and I appreciate that my verbosity is tolerated. I've always been a bit of a nonconformist who questions the conventional wisdom that (in my experience) has so often proven wrong. It also means I've rediscovered the wheel more than once and found ways to reason myself into circles from over-analysis.

While the intent behind it is flattering, I don't like the idea of a cool kid list that seems to devalue the contributions of other members not named. I suspect many on here with professional experience would feel similarly.

I'm just a nerd who really enjoys nerding out with things I find interesting. Oil and engines are near the top of my list.

PS, I know how to spell site, I just don’t get to edit mistakes

 

[CleanSump]

Paralysis from overanalysis. It's not just a BITOG disease.

 

[Legs4Arms]

I think it totally depends on how you drive the car. I'd beat it like it owed me money on a regular basis so I'd probably run the Liqui Moly Synthoil Premium 5W-40 I got on sale for a great price. Lots of PAO, shear stable with great film strength.

If it was used as more of a bump-around-town car with the occasional redline 1-2-3-4 any of the good 0W-30 Euro's would be a good fit. Enjoy the car they're fun little rippers

 

[Zumbooruk]

This Thread is at 28 pages now, so we need to figure this out.

That sounds perfect for a 5W-30 motor oil!

The Oil temperature and the water temperature can be different, that is why we have or some of us have oil temperature gauges. Are you giving me Coolant Temperature Readings? This is going to be simple, if you have an infrared gun, do your normal drive thing and when you get home aim the infrared gun at your oil pan and report back with the number compared to the Water Temp on your Gauge.

Another thought is you might be able to plug into your computer on your car, back in the day OBII port or something and get a reading!

No, I am giving Oil temp (from the oil temp gauge). oil temps as shown on the gauge are indeed different from the water temp gauge

However, Honda does not use an oil temp sensor, and therefore the ECU estimates the Oil temp gauge display based on a model that factors in engine coolant temperature (ECT1), ambient air temperature, load, speed, and heat dissipation rates.

 

[Zumbooruk]

HPL is going to make a recommendation based the information provided to them.

Do we know how the question was posed to HPL? "What the best oil for my CTR"? is a very open ended question that invites a lot of reasonable, but potential invalid assumptions for how the car is used, where it used, the desired oil drain, etc. Track use only vs aggressive canyon carving on weekends vs boring commuter duty-- those are three different usages with likely three different recommendations.

And that's just in one geographic region.

Different premises mean different conclusions. If my understanding of the OP's desires and constraints is wrong or my understanding of lube formulation tradeoffs is wrong, then so is the recommendation I derive from that.

I've tried my best to make my reasoning clear enough for someone to scrutinize in exhaustive detail and make their own assessment. I'm probably overstating the utility of having no VII in terms of extra cleanliness and shear stability. I'm probably being a bit too concerned with dilution after seeing my Honda turn 5w-30 into 5w-16 from dilution. Heck, this CTR might not dilute oil at all like my K20C4.

I've offered my opinion and thoroughly laid out how I arrived at the conclusion. Change the premises, get a different conclusion.

Hopefully even if a reader disagrees with my conclusion he can at least see how I arrived at it and point to a specific difference of premise that would drive a different conclusion. I'm ok with making errors of fact or assumption, it's errors of reasoning that I take more seriously and dearly hope I have avoided.

this is what I sent HPL (which is essentially my original post)

I just purchased my dream car 2025 Honda Civic Type R (FL5 K20C1)​

​

I want to keep it "forever" i.e. maximize the probability that the engine and the turbo will last for a long long time.​

​

I have no intention of tracking or racing, but I do drive aggressively and accelerate hard shifting at the red line whenever I can. though only once the engine/oil is thoroughly warmed up. I let it idle for a minute or two when I get home, after driving easy for the last few miles.​

​

I never had a turbocharged car, but I understand that I need to use an oil that will minimize coking​

​

I was also told that the K20C1 has potential issues with oil fuel dilution which affects the oil​

​

it seems that there is a debate in the community as far as the weight, 0w20 as recommended by Honda in the USA or 5W30 as in the rest of the world. some say 0w20 is best for cooling the turbo. other say 0w20 is only for fuel efficiency, and that 5W30 will protect the engine better.​

​

I live in Southern California, rarely if ever temps drop below freezing.​

​

I plan to change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles (but will follow your recommendations)​

​

I did a lot of research, reading, and watching videos, and I identified HPL as the best oil I can use (with Amsoil, Mobil 1, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum as runners up)​

​

but...​

​

which one of your oils might be the best for my application and my desire to keep my car "forever"?​

To which they replied with:

My overall choice would be our supercar 0w30. A tough oil that checks all the boxes.

5-10,000 mile drains. It’s whatever you feel comfortable with.​

 

[Hohn]

Supercar in 5k OCIs…. Not cheap, but certainly that engine will be well-protected.

Given that you do intend to be more aggressive and drive to redline, I do think that shift towards a 30 grade. And here, the 0w-30 is not because you need gobs of cold flow, but rather because this aggressive driving is exactly the kind of driving where a high calcium, full SAPS recipe is ideal. That means the Suoercar line, and the only Supercar 30 grade is 0w-30.

Higher RPM effective raises the shear rate and makes the oil appear thicker. The water skier is going faster, so he rides higher, so to speak. Film thickness at a constant temperature tends to be higher if you are increasing speed but not load.

Thanks for the background.

 

[Rennie]

this is what I sent HPL (which is essentially my original post)

I just purchased my dream car 2025 Honda Civic Type R (FL5 K20C1)​

​

I want to keep it "forever" i.e. maximize the probability that the engine and the turbo will last for a long long time.​

​

I have no intention of tracking or racing, but I do drive aggressively and accelerate hard shifting at the red line whenever I can. though only once the engine/oil is thoroughly warmed up. I let it idle for a minute or two when I get home, after driving easy for the last few miles.​

​

I never had a turbocharged car, but I understand that I need to use an oil that will minimize coking​

​

I was also told that the K20C1 has potential issues with oil fuel dilution which affects the oil​

​

it seems that there is a debate in the community as far as the weight, 0w20 as recommended by Honda in the USA or 5W30 as in the rest of the world. some say 0w20 is best for cooling the turbo. other say 0w20 is only for fuel efficiency, and that 5W30 will protect the engine better.​

​

I live in Southern California, rarely if ever temps drop below freezing.​

​

I plan to change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles (but will follow your recommendations)​

​

I did a lot of research, reading, and watching videos, and I identified HPL as the best oil I can use (with Amsoil, Mobil 1, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum as runners up)​

​

but...​

​

which one of your oils might be the best for my application and my desire to keep my car "forever"?​

To which they replied with:

My overall choice would be our supercar 0w30. A tough oil that checks all the boxes.​

​

5-10,000 mile drains. It’s whatever you feel comfortable with.​

I called Redline and asked their opinion, and they recommended their full synthetic in 0w-20. They said their 0w-20 thinks it’s a 0w-30. Have used in 2018 type R, and 2019 Miata for six years or so, and was happy with drivability, and noise, during NC summers. That was the choice I was comfortable making.

 

[Hohn]

Sounds like you talked to someone on the phone who knows very little about oil. They run their 0w-20 higher in the grade-- at KV100 of 9.0, when the cutoff for 30 grade is 9.2 So the HTHS is unsurprisingly high at 2.9.

But Redline's additive packages aren't able to maintain acceptable cleanliness for an oil of that price. The evidence of Redline's lackluster cleanliness is all over here on BITOG.

You might not be able to find an oil much more expensive, but you can surely find one that is better than Redline.

 

[kschachn]

I called Redline and asked their opinion, and they recommended their full synthetic in 0w-20. They said their 0w-20 thinks it’s a 0w-30. Have used in 2018 type R, and 2019 Miata for six years or so, and was happy with drivability, and noise, during NC summers. That was the choice I was comfortable making.

That’s a bit embarrassing for a technical response.

 

[Rennie]

Yeah was probably shipping and receiving

 

[edyvw]

I called Redline and asked their opinion, and they recommended their full synthetic in 0w-20. They said their 0w-20 thinks it’s a 0w-30. Have used in 2018 type R, and 2019 Miata for six years or so, and was happy with drivability, and noise, during NC summers. That was the choice I was comfortable making.

Blenders will never recommend outside of manufacturer recommendations.

 

[facility1]

by all rights you could consider Pennzoil Ultra platinum 5w-30 as it runs on the thinner side of the spectrum of viscositys ,or AMSOIL Signature Series 0w30 or 5w-30 to extend your oci .in your warmer climate.