What oil do Americans actual need for 3k OCI's?

[Vuflanovsky]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
You do not get out much do you? I have lived in worked in many countries and cultures. Many change their oil @ less than 2K miles many countries due the poor design of the engines utilized there/ poor quality fuel/ severe driving conditions/Low mileage per year etc. This in South America/Central America and Russia/Eastern Europe....dont get me started on China/India "oil change habits".
But if it makes you feel somewhat superior to belittle fellow BITOG members by all means continue.
But your dead wrong about this 3K Oil Change being an American habit only. Dead wrong.


...And what do so many of your kith and kin do with these oils which are works of art? You dump it at 3k miles! Bonkers. Waste on a vast scale! You should be thanking me as a true friend for being so honest with you..


Again, you're going to have to define "so many"...is that in relation to the millions of quarts of oil in Indian and South Asian putt-putts that are dumped by 3K miles or is that referring to car buffs with show cars that dump oil by 3K miles?? Personally, I don't know many people who do 3K mile oil changes anymore so if "so many" is defined by anywhere close to a majority of owners then I don't think you're correct.

 

[Noey]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: Noey
3k OCI=Marketing myth.

It's curious to me how gullible the 3k OCI folks are about oil intervals, yet they also don't extend the same logic to other fluids. How often do we hear the sanctimony of 3k OCI, yet those same folks never consider a brake fluid change or an ATF change?

I also take a bit of offence in the cultural arrogance and condescension of the question, as if somehow this is a USA only issue. The OP might want to take into consideration that this very forum seems to be disproportionately frequented by highly insightful Yanks who not only understand myth V. fact, but also have the cultural awareness not to insert that into the discussion.


Oh dear, someone's got a thin skin...

For the record, this IS only a US issue. No-one else in the world has this weird fixation with dumping perfectly good oil way before time. Warped marketing message or not, a huge amount of you do still do it. Most of the rest of the civilised world is quite happy for oil to be black once it's in the sump. My old Toyota was doing 6k oil drains way back in 1990. I stretched that to 19k once (admittedly by accident) and the car still went on to do another 40k miles quite happily.

Sorry if you feel condescended to. It's probably rooted in a well justified, deep seated sense of inferiority. Hopefully it's a phase you'll grow out of...


Not a thin skin, but rather some social skills and diplomacy. Stats would support which of us is actually inferior, regardless of OCI's.

Now, go away. You do your people no favours here.

 

[Gene K]

I have a car that gets annual changes at less than 3000 miles.

It usually has 50-100 dragstrip passes on it and is a 700 bhp Supercharged 5.0 Coyote (Ford DOHC V8) and runs 10W30 Pennzoil Platinum.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
However, if your car is older and out of warranty, then I would say there's case to be made for using a significantly cheaper oil that doesn't necessarily comply with GF-5 (or GF-6 if it ever surfaces).

The fact is, though, that getting something cheap that is out of spec is rather difficult in North America. Even the oils from the PQIA list of nightmares don't tend to cost less. The cheapest oil is usually the basic, conventional SN/GF-5 stuff.

If you go for A3/B4 here, you're going to run into a synthetic. You look for something non-certified that isn't a disaster waiting to happen, it'll be a high mileage blend that will cost a bit more (most of them are SN/GF-5 these days). Or, worse, it'll be a boutique, and then all of your goals are out the window, because along with the higher phosphorus, the base stocks are probably a lot more expensive, and the price certainly is.

Clevy: You're back!

 

[bbhero]

Yep, Clevy is back !!

 

[wemay]

I think extrapolating anything from a web-based forum to identify a country's common practice is stretching reality.

 

[Garak]

That is true. We can get some ideas, but if there ever were a group of outliers, it's BITOGers.

 

[BrocLuno]

Yeah, but us outliers ave a norm too

And what we want for any OCI is feel good. We want to know we are doing good by our actions. The marketing departments know this and play it all up. It's ego and strokes, not reality... If it was we'd all be changing based on labs ...

 

[Joe90_guy]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There are still those who never got the memo on improved oil quality and formulation as well as improved fuel formulations who practice 3K drains.
There are also those who believe that 3K drains will prevent varnish.
But there are also those who do 3K drains on low use or high fuel dilution vehicles.
Finally, we here live in the land of cheap motor oil. For what you pay for a cheap swill, we can run M1 and our cheapest oils that comply with current specs are less costly than you could dream of.
I can understand your being jealous of our good fortune in being able to buy good oils cheaply and to be able to afford to change them as often as we might please.
A trashed US economy does closely resemble a booming UK economy.
The difference is that everything is cheaper here, from motor oil to fuel to chicken, steak, fresh fish and toilet paper.
Lord help you should you vote to leave the EU.
The pain will be incalculable.
We don't need an EU. We're a large union all by ourselves.



Hmmm...engine oil, steak, chicken, toilet paper....did you forget health??

Also I never quite get the 'jealous' thing. These days America shines out as beacon of how NOT to do things. One half of you seems to loathe the other with a vengeance. Half of you seems to be stuffing stuff up your nose and when you're not doing that, you're eating all that cheap food on a industrial scale and looking like the Michelin Man in the process. You seem half way to being a police state. Your political process is seriously messed up and you seem to be a few months away from putting a crazed loony into to the White House.

And your oil change intervals are RUBBISH!!!

PS- Do you want to go for round two? I can play this game all day long...

 

[Silk]

How long does it take to do these 3,000 miles? In New Zealand we do 10,000 or 6 months, or 15,000km and 12 month service intervals, most people pretty close to the 10,000km in 6 months. So 3,000 miles is around 5,000km....3 months in NZ, I'm sure they do a higher annual mileage in the US - so are they doing these oil changes every couple of months?

 

[MrQuackers]

We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.

 

[Joe90_guy]

Originally Posted By: Noey
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: Noey
3k OCI=Marketing myth.

It's curious to me how gullible the 3k OCI folks are about oil intervals, yet they also don't extend the same logic to other fluids. How often do we hear the sanctimony of 3k OCI, yet those same folks never consider a brake fluid change or an ATF change?

I also take a bit of offence in the cultural arrogance and condescension of the question, as if somehow this is a USA only issue. The OP might want to take into consideration that this very forum seems to be disproportionately frequented by highly insightful Yanks who not only understand myth V. fact, but also have the cultural awareness not to insert that into the discussion.


Oh dear, someone's got a thin skin...

For the record, this IS only a US issue. No-one else in the world has this weird fixation with dumping perfectly good oil way before time. Warped marketing message or not, a huge amount of you do still do it. Most of the rest of the civilised world is quite happy for oil to be black once it's in the sump. My old Toyota was doing 6k oil drains way back in 1990. I stretched that to 19k once (admittedly by accident) and the car still went on to do another 40k miles quite happily.

Sorry if you feel condescended to. It's probably rooted in a well justified, deep seated sense of inferiority. Hopefully it's a phase you'll grow out of...


Not a thin skin, but rather some social skills and diplomacy. Stats would support which of us is actually inferior, regardless of OCI's.

Now, go away. You do your people no favours here.


Interesting...

I re-read this entire post again and I noticed that it only turned personal when you chimed in with your comments about arrogance and condescension. Up until then, it was a nice little technical debate exploring the contradiction between current US oil quality and what quality and cost might be consistent with the 3k OCI.

For someone who seems to think he possesses superior diplomatic and social skills (not to mention your 'cultural awareness' whatever that is), you really know how to start a good war! Thanks for that...

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Gene K


My personal opinion is it has more to do with Cars that ended up 2 quarts low by oil change time and inadequate splash. The average motorist does not check oil between changes.


?

The average motorist may well not check oil between changes, but I'm not aware of any modern engines (outside of OPE) that use some form of splash lube. The oil level in the sump is always below the crank throws. Oil gets onto the cylinder walls from oil leaking out between rods and mains, a slow leak that gets flung; and not from any sort of dipper.

At least that I know of... Thus running 2qt low may well still make full oil pressure, maybe not at redline but for most of the time. And still have full and proper lubrication. Albeit with possibly hotter oil (probably not if a oil heater/cooler is used).

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy


Also I never quite get the 'jealous' thing. These days America shines out as beacon of how NOT to do things. One half of you seems to loathe the other with a vengeance. Half of you seems to be stuffing stuff up your nose and when you're not doing that, you're eating all that cheap food on a industrial scale and looking like the Michelin Man in the process. You seem half way to being a police state. Your political process is seriously messed up and you seem to be a few months away from putting a crazed loony into to the White House.

And your oil change intervals are RUBBISH!!!

PS- Do you want to go for round two? I can play this game all day long...





I'm not sure who is advocating 3k OCI's. I do have a friend who I think does 4k OCI's--but he short trips and drives miles on dirt roads in the process. My vehicles have been doing 10k OCI's for a while.

Last I knew the obesity "crisis" was cross the pond also. McD's is "over there" also, and your people are starting to pack it away too. I know of no more ugly American than... Jeremy Clarkson.

Finally, politics is politics. Are you going to tell me that your fellow citizens don't go at also?

For the record, I used to own a nice turbo-diesel station wagon, complete with manual transmission. I liked that car but not the Euro repair costs. I did take it out past 300k, not all Americans toss their cars after 100k either.

I think you like to paint with a broad brush.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: old1
Even if it takes 3 years to put the 3000 miles on???


In a fuel injected car driven on the street, I think yes, but would get a UOA to be sure.

In a carbureted off road vehicle that sees plenty of dusty conditions, no.

As mentioned above (between all the -ahem- spirited discussion) it depends on the vehicle; but in most cases 3000 miles is under using a modern oil.

 

[virginoil]

3000 mile OCI not a myth if the OLM says change or extreme driving conditions prevail.

Probably overkill for some.

Its relatively cheap. My mechanic was rung by the Toyota Dealer who could not believe the cleanliness of a 14 year old 1.8L Corolla engine using this regime to confirm how he had this.

The Corolla was traded for a new Toyota.

 

[Noey]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: Noey
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: Noey
3k OCI=Marketing myth.

It's curious to me how gullible the 3k OCI folks are about oil intervals, yet they also don't extend the same logic to other fluids. How often do we hear the sanctimony of 3k OCI, yet those same folks never consider a brake fluid change or an ATF change?

I also take a bit of offence in the cultural arrogance and condescension of the question, as if somehow this is a USA only issue. The OP might want to take into consideration that this very forum seems to be disproportionately frequented by highly insightful Yanks who not only understand myth V. fact, but also have the cultural awareness not to insert that into the discussion.


Oh dear, someone's got a thin skin...

For the record, this IS only a US issue. No-one else in the world has this weird fixation with dumping perfectly good oil way before time. Warped marketing message or not, a huge amount of you do still do it. Most of the rest of the civilised world is quite happy for oil to be black once it's in the sump. My old Toyota was doing 6k oil drains way back in 1990. I stretched that to 19k once (admittedly by accident) and the car still went on to do another 40k miles quite happily.

Sorry if you feel condescended to. It's probably rooted in a well justified, deep seated sense of inferiority. Hopefully it's a phase you'll grow out of...


Not a thin skin, but rather some social skills and diplomacy. Stats would support which of us is actually inferior, regardless of OCI's.

Now, go away. You do your people no favours here.


Interesting...

I re-read this entire post again and I noticed that it only turned personal when you chimed in with your comments about arrogance and condescension. Up until then, it was a nice little technical debate exploring the contradiction between current US oil quality and what quality and cost might be consistent with the 3k OCI.

For someone who seems to think he possesses superior diplomatic and social skills (not to mention your 'cultural awareness' whatever that is), you really know how to start a good war! Thanks for that...



The issue with "Superiority" seems to be yours. Sadly for you, the facts (and the responses to them) would indicate quite the contrary. Good job!
.

 

[AuthorEditor]

A few comments on the OP's first post. I think many/most people have gotten away from the 3000-mile oil change myth, and I bet most purchasers of new cars follow the OLM lights. Second, if for some reason you wanted to do it every 3000 miles my recommendation would still be to go for a name-brand oil or even Supertech purchased at Walmart and something like a Toughguard filter. The entire cost of the change would be less than $20 if you did it yourself and the quality would be superior to what most oil-change places give you. Third, 5W-20 and 5W-30 synthetic oils make a huge difference in starting in the dead of winter here in the Northeast. I suspect you will save the cost of going to a 5W synthetic just on starter motors, and the increased flow has got to be better for the engine. After having lived in the good old days of 10W-40 and 10W-30 oils I would never go back. I can vividly remember adding oil to the car and it flowed like honey in the cold. Compare that to how a 5W synthetic flows in January and you will never go back. Just follow the car manufacturer recommendations for the weight in your manual, which is probably 5W-20 or 5W-30 for the majority of cars, but whatever it is they know a lot more about what your car needs than you will ever.

 

[mark pruett]

Originally Posted By: Noey
3k OCI=Marketing myth.


I wouldn't say "myth" exactly. More like "legend", in that there's certainly a little historical grain of truth at the core of it, but that there's a lot of [censored] and misinformation and flat-out untruths surrounding it.

For example, my 2005 Dodge Dakota with the PowerTech 3.7 V6 DOES have a 3000 mile interval for severe service, and the conditions that qualify for "Severe Service" are silly enough (51% or more of high speed driving over 90 degrees, day or night temp under 32 degrees, short trips under 10 miles) that most drivers in most parts of the country probably qualify.

I mean, there's probably someone somewhere who drives more than 10 miles a trip, but under highway speeds, at places where the temp doesn't habitually top out over 90 degrees, and where it rarely gets below freezing, but that doesn't encompass the vast majority of people, I imagine.

And.. the conditions apply to the "maintenance intervals", which encompass the OCI, the transmission fluid changes, the rear axle changes, and everything else. On the "Standard" one, everything's at multiples of 6000 miles, and on the "Severe" one, everything's at intervals of 3000 miles, so the short OCI may be as much for ensuring that you change your rear axle fluid more often, as it is for your engine. IIRC, my old 1976 Suburban had a similar schedule, as did my 1995 Ford Ranger.

So there's the grain of truth. The legendary part is the notion that it's applicable to all cars under all conditions, which is pure marketing [censored]. And it's surprisingly pervasive. My wife who's NOT a car person at all, was skeptical of her VW Passat's 10k OCI until I explained all this to her. (then she went off and trusted the local shop knucklehead who put in non VW 502 synthetic

)

So for someone like my dad, it's not surprising that if he saw 3000 mile oil changes in his youth, and keeps being bombarded with marketing about it, that he'll come to believe that at the very least it's not harmful, if he's not actively thinking he's doing something useful.

The big problem is more that we have intensive marketing saying 3k intervals are beneficial, without any significant marketing against them. By that, I mean nobody stands to make money by having longer OCIs (the same oil companies that make the conventional oil also make the long-OCI synthetics.). Manufacturers publish their recommendations, but don't really care past that, and filter manufacturers tacitly go along with the shorter OCIs as they sell filters. So in a fiscal sense, nobody really is harmed by shorter OCIs, and several groups benefit from them.

And the arguments against them are usually couched in terms of environmentalism, which has a rather questionable reputation in the minds of many. "Possibly ruin my engine... for some questionable tree-hugging reason? No way." If they were smart, they'd just advertise it like they do here- oils are better, OCIs can be larger, and you can SAVE MONEY!"

 

[supton]

When was 3k OCI's "good"? I mean, a century or so ago 1k was kinda long. 2k was Kendall's marketing campaign, wasn't it? Surely 3k must have been appropriate for the 60-80's, dependent upon one's oil choice.