What oil do Americans actual need for 3k OCI's?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Kuato
To answer your question: the least expensive available.

Any modern oil (exception: those that PQIA has found to be not worth the container in which they are contained)

will be fine at 3000 mile intervals, regardless how the vehicle is used.



I suspect some of those companies bottle the runoff and sell it to those who may not know any better. Their trashy environmental concepts and procedures produce horrible by-products and they find a way to market and sell it since the EPA is probably on their case about dumping it in rivers and streams.



e.g.

Anyone in the market for depleted uranium?
 
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
You do not get out much do you? I have lived in worked in many countries and cultures. Many change their oil @ less than 2K miles many countries due the poor design of the engines utilized there/ poor quality fuel/ severe driving conditions/Low mileage per year etc. This in South America/Central America and Russia/Eastern Europe....dont get me started on China/India "oil change habits".
But if it makes you feel somewhat superior to belittle fellow BITOG members by all means continue.
But your dead wrong about this 3K Oil Change being an American habit only. Dead wrong.


Sorry old bean but if you're going to argue, you really should master your facts first.

Yes there are countries that change their oil at 2k miles. The reason they do this is because their oils are garbage and they are utterly destroyed at that point. I should know because I formulated rather a lot of them in just those very counties you mentioned! SF/CC oils and the like made from garbage local Group I base oils containing just the barest sniff of DI. Also, as you correctly pointed out, they tend to run some awful fuels in some pretty awful engines.

Now contrast that with the situation in the US. Group I is almost gone now... deliberately done to death by the API and the base oil producers. Group II oils are de rigueur and Group III usage is climbing. DI treats for GF-5 oils, even the most lowly, are around the 10% mark which is easily comparable with European levels. Your gasoline is also pretty good quality and is full of nice additives put their specifically to keep those engines clean.

And what do so many of your kith and kin do with these oils which are works of art? You dump it at 3k miles! Bonkers. Waste on a vast scale! You should be thanking me as a true friend for being so honest with you..




For me and mine, at least, on the street I feel quality GrpII with touches, splashes, and dashes of GrpIII is perfect. I don't want to 'use up' the best and rarest of resources for any real reason.

Maybe if I were on the track with the hammer down- maybe 40% GrpII, 40% GrpIII, and 20% Group IV would be ideal for a stressed V8.



I am not very well versed in Tribology, oil analyses, and grouping formulations, but the above is my guess at using and not abusing......kind of like responsible practices.
 
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Some interesting points for sure.

A major contributor is also the quality of fuel, which I haven't seen discussed yet. Over in the Middle East, where fuel quality is well behind the developed world, people change oil at ridiculously low intervals. Some people change their oil every month, some people change their oil every 2,000 km (1,250 miles). Inevitably, most of the oil blended in this part of the world is inferior at best compared to what's on the shelves in Europe and the United States. Gasoline in this part of the world is also extremely high in MMT.

Personally, I'm paying $3.58/gallon for Euro V gasoline imported from the UK and tend to following the OLM on my GM, which is my DD. I certainly do have an OCD, and admit to doing a simple drain and refill whenever the OLM hits 50% (averages about 11,500 km (7,200 mi)). When the OLM hits 1%, it's a new air filter (dusty conditions), oil filter and an oil change.

I follow a standard 15,000 km (9,375 mi)/1 year for my Grand Marquis, which also runs on Euro V and also includes a new air filter and oil filter. It doesn't really get driven that much. The Explorer, Expedition and Pajero run on Euro II - because of the high sulfur content, these guys get an oil change every 8,000 km (5,000 mi).




Why arent we (USA and the Middle East) working together. We probably have several oil tankers visit your ports daily, so how come we don't share intelligence on how to have cleaner fuels, oil, petroleum products?
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Depends on the vehicle... An off-road Jeep rock crawling for days on end might get oil changed at 3K. So might a short-tripper. Most cars and light trucks that I know of go 4~6K between changes.

The State of California fleet management determined years ago that the optimum was 6,000 miles and filter every other. So that 10's of thousands of vehicles that have done that for a long time and many go to auction over 250K still running fine.

High performance and race motors are not to be treated this way because of use extremes or fuel dilution.

But, there is more to changing oil than changing oil. It's also when you crawl around under the vehicle looking at a lot of stuff, greasing zerks (my light trucks still take grease), checking brake pads, etc.

So it may be that the oil change is incidental to other work and is just a time/convenience thing and not mileage related... If that's the case, the incidental cost of the oil/filter is nothing compared to scheduling another day to do more work when you are already there ...

Most of my fleet runs HDEO and that is cheap enough that I don't worry about $4 a change cost savings... I get the OP's point, but the USA trend is to manage labor costs and time for services, not disposable service materials cost.

We all think the Euro trend to 10K changes is kinda nuts when we hear rumors of component failures for lack of even checking fluids on closed systems... It's that once you extend the OCI, the owner stops checking anything ...
frown.gif



I tend to agree with this theory.

Combine this with the manufacturers not even providing dip sticks to check the oil level as required, and we have a consumer who at the end of the day that doesn't even know how to open the bonnet/hood without assistance.
This applies particularly to the leading European car manufacturers.
For example, If the yellow check oil light comes on they don't know what it means because they haven't read the manual.
The default course of action is to call Roadside Assist or take it to the nearest dealer.
The manuals support this course of action.
Checking the air pressure in the tyres is another matter altogether.
Run flat tyres and people who don't even know how to change a flat tyre are symptomatic of a broader problem with operator education.

In summary, the vehicles overall are so reliable these days combined with the degree of difficulty of servicing imposed by the Europeans has made operators lazy and ignorant on many levels to the point of incompetency.

EFI is another example of the level of reliability and user friendliness of the car engines alone.
For example, how many people in society in general would know how to start the engine on their lawn mower that's flooded simply because they pressed the primer button once too many times in the middle of Summer?
Let alone be bothered to check the oil level before they start the thing.

The opening post of this thread opens the mind to many possibilities.
The answer to the question posed I suspect lies in the level of education and has cultural issues intertwined with the practical realities of this modern world.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: finmile
I think the price of goods affects our behaviour quite much.

In Europe gasoline and oil are expensive, so we want cars with the best fuel economy and the longest OCI possible. A new car with 15,000 km OCI doesn't sound too appealing anymore. 20,000 km OCI seems to be the new minimum. And if this is what the consumers want, this is what they get.

Today it can be as crazy as a three cylinder 1.0 liter turbocharged GDI engine with 30,000 km OCI, even if there's a risk that the engine is shot at 200k km (I'm not sure if this exact combination can be found from the market, but you get the idea).

On the other hand in USA oil and gasoline are dirt cheap. So why would the consumers be too concerned about a bit shorter OCI or poorer gas mileage. Bigger engines with shorter OCIs fits quite nicely to this low cost environment. And in this environment it's easy to keep the 3k miles OCI myth alive.

Money talks. If the oil change would be $79 instead of $29 would people want to extend the OCI? At least it would make them think twice, wouldn't it.

[offtopic]I'm glad to hear that Mr. T "the wall builder" isn't going to rule the USA in the future.

When G.W.B. was elected as the president, I remember some interviews from the USA, where people were saying: "I want to say to people living outside of USA that 50% of us didn't vote for him".[/offtopic]


The consumer doesn't really know what they want.
The price of goods and the estimated cost of ownership are major factors.
They just take the best deal they think they can get depending upon their loyalties(if any) to a brand.

If a manufacturer offers a longer OCI along with better fuel economy then the next one, they'll take it if they think it will save some money over the lifetime of vehicle ownership(or until the lease runs out).
With guaranteed buyback at the end of the lease this skews the loyalty to a brand, and reduces the operator's input to a scheduled program with timely prompts from the dealer to get the vehicle serviced.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: finmile


When G.W.B. was elected as the president, I remember some interviews from the USA, where people were saying: "I want to say to people living outside of USA that 50% of us didn't vote for him".[/offtopic]


Actually 3/4 of the eligible voters did not vote for GWB. 1/2 the eligible voters do not vote, and only half of the other half voted for GWB. That means only 1/4 of the people voted for GWB.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: finmile


When G.W.B. was elected as the president, I remember some interviews from the USA, where people were saying: "I want to say to people living outside of USA that 50% of us didn't vote for him".[/offtopic]


Actually 3/4 of the eligible voters did not vote for GWB. 1/2 the eligible voters do not vote, and only half of the other half voted for GWB. That means only 1/4 of the people voted for GWB.

What does GWB have to do with this? Does he change his oil every 3k lol
 
Originally Posted By: Plawan
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: finmile


When G.W.B. was elected as the president, I remember some interviews from the USA, where people were saying: "I want to say to people living outside of USA that 50% of us didn't vote for him".[/offtopic]


Actually 3/4 of the eligible voters did not vote for GWB. 1/2 the eligible voters do not vote, and only half of the other half voted for GWB. That means only 1/4 of the people voted for GWB.

What does GWB have to do with this? Does he change his oil every 3k lol


I'm sure GWB has never changed his own motor oil. He probably doesn't even know where on his car to find a dipstick. I doubt he has ever touched a dipstick. Oh, except for his last day in office, when he shook hand with that guy who took his place. Yea, I'm quite sure that's the last time GWB touched a dipstick.
crackmeup2.gif


Just a joke. No politics intended. Don't shut down the thread. I'm just trying to make light on a thread that's full of tense feelings.

On a side note, of everyone I talk cars with, I can only think of a couple instances when people have said they follow a 3k oci. Most I know follow the oil life monitor. A few others stick with 4k-5k oci. The rest of us nuts go somewhere over 7k-8k.

BTW, I honestly don't understand how anyone who comes from a country where they have a leader by birthright, which the people adore, but he/she isn't even really a political leader, but only a figurehead, and a House of Commons where bantering and insults are tossed around as often as nose tissue in a waste basket, and which can't manage to keep rule of any of it's territories, could really point fingers at any other political system. Good thing they go by UK, because after giving up 98% of their land mass in the last 250 years, it really isn't Great anything.

They don't even make Rolls Royce cars any longer. Nope. Rolls Royce is now a (gasp) German car company. But wait, they still have Jaguar. No, wait. Jaguar is now an Indian owned company, right? Land Rover? Oh, wait, it's part of Tata too? Bentey? Oh, it's owned by the Germans also, right? Well, there is Lotus? What? You say it's owned by a Malaysian company? And they put Toyota engines in them? The Mini? Oh, it's part of BMW? Well, there's MG. What? It's owned by the Chinese? Well, there is the AC. But no one would know who they are if it weren't for an American. You know. Carroll Shelby. Ancient history, right? But then why does AC still have to put Ford and Corvette engines in their cars? Wait! AC builds all their cars in South Africa now? Not the UK?

Well, what in the world do the British know about automobiles, except for how to destroy
15.gif
a company so it can be bought out by a foreign manufacturer?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
As an old oil formulator, I'm constantly amazed by posts from the US which say 'I change my oil every 3,000 miles' or 'I don't want black oil in my engine so I change it when it starts to go dark'. It makes a complete mockery of everything that the motor lubricant industry has done over the last few decades. Better base oils, higher treats of increasingly expensive additives, eye-wateringly expensive oil development and Byzantine qualification processes based on an ever expanding suite of engine and rig tests...it all counts for nothing when you routinely dump your oil at 3,000 miles!


There are a number of reasons why 3K mile OCI is still popular in the US, like the following:
1/ Lack of education combined with clever Iffylube hype!
2/ The Iffylube and even some dealerships want to use the cheapest oil possible, which is often some group 2 base stock that has no Moly or Boron (Anti wear adds) and a distinct lack of detegents.
3/ Some engines are run on 0w20 when their design spec was in the 30 range. That's OK if you keep dumping the oil every few thousand miles.
4/ Fuel contamination issues (DI, DPF or just gummed injectors).
5/ The all American golden oil feel good factor!

PS: Got 2 cars, a Renault Twingo 1.2 (16v) town car and a Renault Migraine 1.9TDI. The Twingo's max recommended OCI is 30K km, but the last owner forgot that and it did 50K km when I dumped it. No lumps luckily!
The Migraine has a max recommended OCI of 20K km, BUT a UOA program indicates 30K would be fine.
I only use Ultra or Synthoil 0 or 5w40 in both. The Twingo uses 5w20 in the US, BUT the EU dealers and lube shops use a 10w40 in Germany. Shell list it for Ultra 0w40, so that's what is in it at present.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
Having lived in the UK for more than 10 years during my career.....I am always amazed at the assumptions Brits make about Americans.


I would really like to hear the highlights of this!

Can you give us a "Top 5" or so? Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
Having lived in the UK for more than 10 years during my career.....I am always amazed at the assumptions Brits make about Americans.


I would really like to hear the highlights of this!

Can you give us a "Top 5" or so? Thanks!


I'm pretty sure that 90+% of the British could point to the US on a global map within a few seconds...not quite sure that could be reciprocated.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

I'm pretty sure that 90+% of the British could point to the US on a global map within a few seconds...not quite sure that could be reciprocated.


Chocks away, Guv'nah!

Lets here it, ole boy!
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: finmile
I think the price of goods affects our behaviour quite much.

In Europe gasoline and oil are expensive, so we want cars with the best fuel economy and the longest OCI possible. A new car with 15,000 km OCI doesn't sound too appealing anymore. 20,000 km OCI seems to be the new minimum. And if this is what the consumers want, this is what they get.

Today it can be as crazy as a three cylinder 1.0 liter turbocharged GDI engine with 30,000 km OCI, even if there's a risk that the engine is shot at 200k km (I'm not sure if this exact combination can be found from the market, but you get the idea).

On the other hand in USA oil and gasoline are dirt cheap. So why would the consumers be too concerned about a bit shorter OCI or poorer gas mileage. Bigger engines with shorter OCIs fits quite nicely to this low cost environment. And in this environment it's easy to keep the 3k miles OCI myth alive.

Money talks. If the oil change would be $79 instead of $29 would people want to extend the OCI? At least it would make them think twice, wouldn't it.

[offtopic]I'm glad to hear that Mr. T "the wall builder" isn't going to rule the USA in the future.

When G.W.B. was elected as the president, I remember some interviews from the USA, where people were saying: "I want to say to people living outside of USA that 50% of us didn't vote for him".[/offtopic]

Actually he's gonna win the republican primaries and hopefully the presidency.but what you need to do is worry about your own politics.
Didn't we teach y'all a lesson already? Now get in line and follow the leader.
 
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Originally Posted By: Plawan
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: finmile


When G.W.B. was elected as the president, I remember some interviews from the USA, where people were saying: "I want to say to people living outside of USA that 50% of us didn't vote for him".[/offtopic]


Actually 3/4 of the eligible voters did not vote for GWB. 1/2 the eligible voters do not vote, and only half of the other half voted for GWB. That means only 1/4 of the people voted for GWB.

What does GWB have to do with this? Does he change his oil every 3k lol


I'm sure GWB has never changed his own motor oil. He probably doesn't even know where on his car to find a dipstick. I doubt he has ever touched a dipstick. Oh, except for his last day in office, when he shook hand with that guy who took his place. Yea, I'm quite sure that's the last time GWB touched a dipstick.
crackmeup2.gif


Just a joke. No politics intended. Don't shut down the thread. I'm just trying to make light on a thread that's full of tense feelings.

On a side note, of everyone I talk cars with, I can only think of a couple instances when people have said they follow a 3k oci. Most I know follow the oil life monitor. A few others stick with 4k-5k oci. The rest of us nuts go somewhere over 7k-8k.

BTW, I honestly don't understand how anyone who comes from a country where they have a leader by birthright, which the people adore, but he/she isn't even really a political leader, but only a figurehead, and a House of Commons where bantering and insults are tossed around as often as nose tissue in a waste basket, and which can't manage to keep rule of any of it's territories, could really point fingers at any other political system. Good thing they go by UK, because after giving up 98% of their land mass in the last 250 years, it really isn't Great anything.

They don't even make Rolls Royce cars any longer. Nope. Rolls Royce is now a (gasp) German car company. But wait, they still have Jaguar. No, wait. Jaguar is now an Indian owned company, right? Land Rover? Oh, wait, it's part of Tata too? Bentey? Oh, it's owned by the Germans also, right? Well, there is Lotus? What? You say it's owned by a Malaysian company? And they put Toyota engines in them? The Mini? Oh, it's part of BMW? Well, there's MG. What? It's owned by the Chinese? Well, there is the AC. But no one would know who they are if it weren't for an American. You know. Carroll Shelby. Ancient history, right? But then why does AC still have to put Ford and Corvette engines in their cars? Wait! AC builds all their cars in South Africa now? Not the UK?

Well, what in the world do the British know about automobiles, except for how to destroy
15.gif
a company so it can be bought out by a foreign manufacturer?
amen brother.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top