What oil do Americans actual need for 3k OCI's?

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
So what would the HTHS of this 10W20 be ?

2.8/2.9 ?

I get the premise, and 3,000 miles on a bare bones oil makes sense, far more than 3,000 miles of M1, but as you've seen explaining rational process in an emotional "doing the best for my car" forum, let alone convincing the average punter of it being rational is going to be tougher than forcing butter up an echidna's bum with a red hot knitting needle.


It's also a marketing nightmare...why would this very cheap product be all you need? then what's the use of the expensive products? how will you differentiate yourself from another manufacturer offering a 10w20? Maybe by adding a super secret new additive that helps keep the engie live longer, and then you can charge more aswell. Oh wait....

 

[Gene K]

I saw an article once (Consumer Reports?) where a large commercial oil change chain said the average for an oil change was 4800 miles. However that was before wide spread use of the OLM. I suspect today the average is closer to 6000 miles. Out Enclave hits 10% at 5000 miles and the F150 around 7000 miles.

 

[dareo]

3k OCI is perfect for the average negligent consumer who procrastinates everything. In reality, that 3k OCI gets noticed at 5k miles and changed at 6k or 7k, and they never check oil levels either.

 

[wemay]

I would think it was the other way around. Most U.S. drivers could care less about oil or filters and "what's best for my engine". They probably go over the quick lube recommended 3k mile oci by at least 2k miles. It's here on bitog where the anxiety to change the oil and post what you're using is the 'norm'.

...and all of that was a generalization too.

 

[TheOnlySarge]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
You do not get out much do you? I have lived in worked in many countries and cultures. Many change their oil @ less than 2K miles many countries due the poor design of the engines utilized there/ poor quality fuel/ severe driving conditions/Low mileage per year etc. This in South America/Central America and Russia/Eastern Europe....dont get me started on China/India "oil change habits".
But if it makes you feel somewhat superior to belittle fellow BITOG members by all means continue.
But your dead wrong about this 3K Oil Change being an American habit only. Dead wrong.


Sorry old bean but if you're going to argue, you really should master your facts first.

Yes there are countries that change their oil at 2k miles. The reason they do this is because their oils are garbage and they are utterly destroyed at that point. I should know because I formulated rather a lot of them in just those very counties you mentioned! SF/CC oils and the like made from garbage local Group I base oils containing just the barest sniff of DI. Also, as you correctly pointed out, they tend to run some awful fuels in some pretty awful engines.

Now contrast that with the situation in the US. Group I is almost gone now... deliberately done to death by the API and the base oil producers. Group II oils are de rigueur and Group III usage is climbing. DI treats for GF-5 oils, even the most lowly, are around the 10% mark which is easily comparable with European levels. Your gasoline is also pretty good quality and is full of nice additives put their specifically to keep those engines clean.

And what do so many of your kith and kin do with these oils which are works of art? You dump it at 3k miles! Bonkers. Waste on a vast scale! You should be thanking me as a true friend for being so honest with you..

Sorry I baited you......and I got the response I anticipated.
It is a mental disorder called Illusory superiority. I suspect you have had this for some time.
You totally ignored my post and responded to a post you envisioned. I see you doing it too many respondents, not only in this thread, but others you are involved in.
It can be treated.....I hope you seek that help you need.

 

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
...it all counts for nothing when you routinely dump your oil at 3,000 miles!
[snip]
my last three cars were more or less knackered after ten years and 120k miles!
[snip]
if Americans are going to continue changing their oil ever 3k, should anything change?


I'm curious if motor oil had any part in the demise of those three cars.

I think we can all agree that 3k oil changes are still a popular marketing strategy at some US shops and franchises; and there's a segment of car owners that will play the role of good consumer and follow the advice of the vendor.
These are people who are not highly knowledgeable about cars and don't want to be.
They're broadly dumb, I've known University professors like this.
These are not people who come to BITOG.
They never check the dipstick between changes, so 3000 miles does help keep them from running it dry.
Some are driving a 3rd hand BMW and have never seen the Owner's Manual.
Why not take a semi-beater like that to Iffy Lube?

I say we all do what's comfortable, be peaceable, and hope your car doesn't get wrecked before the body & electrical fall apart.
Both are far more likely than engine failure, given a reasonable OCI.

p.s. I would rather change oil by operating time, but I'm too lazy to add an hour-meter.

 

[Buick8]

Got a new Ford Taurus in 2008 (Company car) and, for meanness as well as for a technical exercise, I changed the oil according to the OLM. It usually went a few hundred over 6000 miles. I went to name-brand oil change places, or the dealer a few times. Used whatever oil they used, in the recommended weight which I recall was 5W-20. Filter? Whatever they used.
Car left here on a flatbed recently, headed for the auction. It had 227,000 miles, never used a noticeable amount, did not leak, and was free of engine repairs. I pronounced myself satisfied.
It was replaced with a Fusion 4-cylinder which I like better.

 

[SirTanon]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There are still those who never got the memo on improved oil quality and formulation as well as improved fuel formulations who practice 3K drains.
There are also those who believe that 3K drains will prevent varnish.
But there are also those who do 3K drains on low use or high fuel dilution vehicles.
Finally, we here live in the land of cheap motor oil. For what you pay for a cheap swill, we can run M1 and our cheapest oils that comply with current specs are less costly than you could dream of.
I can understand your being jealous of our good fortune in being able to buy good oils cheaply and to be able to afford to change them as often as we might please.
A trashed US economy does closely resemble a booming UK economy.
The difference is that everything is cheaper here, from motor oil to fuel to chicken, steak, fresh fish and toilet paper.
Lord help you should you vote to leave the EU.
The pain will be incalculable.
We don't need an EU. We're a large union all by ourselves.



Hmmm...engine oil, steak, chicken, toilet paper....did you forget health??

Also I never quite get the 'jealous' thing. These days America shines out as beacon of how NOT to do things. One half of you seems to loathe the other with a vengeance. Half of you seems to be stuffing stuff up your nose and when you're not doing that, you're eating all that cheap food on a industrial scale and looking like the Michelin Man in the process. You seem half way to being a police state. Your political process is seriously messed up and you seem to be a few months away from putting a crazed loony into to the White House.

And your oil change intervals are RUBBISH!!!

PS- Do you want to go for round two? I can play this game all day long...


Just curious here, but.. was your plan, when starting this post, to comment about oil change intervals, or did you intend it as prelude to insulting us as a nation and painting all of us with the broadest brush that you could?

I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing right through you. You may as well have started the thread with the title "Why I despise the USA"

.. but I digress.

I run 7,500 mile OCIs in my 2010 Fusion - the 'standard duty' OCI recommended by Ford for all of their vehicles from 2008 onward. Maybe I'm wrong, but the last time I checked, Ford is an American company. Nowhere in any of their documentation do I see any 3,000 mile OCI recommendation, short of those for very specific vehicles which are 'extreme duty'

- This same car has already racked up 213,000 miles, and I plan to move it to 10,000 mile OCIs once the current run is done. I'd run this one to 10k, but Pennzoil wants me to do only the 7,500, as the current fill us under their current testing regimen for Penn Platinum.


The 2014 Altima in my sig gets a 5,000 mile OCI currently, but this is only because the manufacturer prescribes a 5k OCI.. Once the warranty is up, I'll be moving to 7,500 mile OCIs on this car as well. Possibly longer, if the UOAs warrant it.

As to the remainder of your tirade, please take it to the politics forum and leave it there. I come here to talk about my car, and my oil.

I will say this.. The broad strokes you're painting only shine a light on your own ignorance. Should we assume that because you think and talk like you do, that everyone else where you live is as much of a bigot?

Food for thought...

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There are still those who never got the memo on improved oil quality and formulation as well as improved fuel formulations who practice 3K drains.
There are also those who believe that 3K drains will prevent varnish.
But there are also those who do 3K drains on low use or high fuel dilution vehicles.
Finally, we here live in the land of cheap motor oil. For what you pay for a cheap swill, we can run M1 and our cheapest oils that comply with current specs are less costly than you could dream of.
I can understand your being jealous of our good fortune in being able to buy good oils cheaply and to be able to afford to change them as often as we might please.
A trashed US economy does closely resemble a booming UK economy.
The difference is that everything is cheaper here, from motor oil to fuel to chicken, steak, fresh fish and toilet paper.
Lord help you should you vote to leave the EU.
The pain will be incalculable.
We don't need an EU. We're a large union all by ourselves.



Hmmm...engine oil, steak, chicken, toilet paper....did you forget health??

Also I never quite get the 'jealous' thing. These days America shines out as beacon of how NOT to do things. One half of you seems to loathe the other with a vengeance. Half of you seems to be stuffing stuff up your nose and when you're not doing that, you're eating all that cheap food on a industrial scale and looking like the Michelin Man in the process. You seem half way to being a police state. Your political process is seriously messed up and you seem to be a few months away from putting a crazed loony into to the White House.

And your oil change intervals are RUBBISH!!!

PS- Do you want to go for round two? I can play this game all day long...





Half of us loathe the other?
It isn't our country with a constituent part conducting elections on whether they'll remain a part of the nation.
Stuffing stuff up our noses and eating ourselves into the Michelin Man?
Only among the lower socio-economic classes, just like your own country.
Halfway to being a police state?
It's your country that's had cameras everywhere for years and we don't have quasi-legal things like ASBOs in this country.
Our political process is seriously messed up?
You forget that many of us subscribe to The Economist. We're well aware that you have a buffoon who bet the future of his country on a promised referendum on EU membership in a successful bid to remain in power.
I can also promise you that the "crazed loony" to whom you refer will never see the White House from any view other than that offered on a tour. The American electoral process is robust enough to prevent this.
The one wise thing any of your governments have done in recent decades was to have kept a national currency.
Having stayed out of the Euro seems a stroke of brilliance from a generally lackluster political class.
I guess this is round two, and I can play this game all day long as well.

 

[BrocLuno]

Hey, I was thinking along those lines ...

 

[Plawan]

Originally Posted By: Noey
3k OCI=Marketing myth.

It's curious to me how gullible the 3k OCI folks are about oil intervals, yet they also don't extend the same logic to other fluids. How often do we hear the sanctimony of 3k OCI, yet those same folks never consider a brake fluid change or an ATF change?

I also take a bit of offence in the cultural arrogance and condescension of the question, as if somehow this is a USA only issue. The OP might want to take into consideration that this very forum seems to be disproportionately frequented by highly insightful Yanks who not only understand myth V. fact, but also have the cultural awareness not to insert that into the discussion.

Dosent evryone know by now that the world revolves around the U.S and its inhabitants? I mean does anyone really care what some british dude thinks? Where in france is britian anyway hahaha.

 

[Y_K]

BITOG got its own resident Pierce Morgan..

 

[alcyon]

Originally Posted By: Plawan
.

Dosent evryone know by now that the world revolves around the U.S and its inhabitants? I mean does anyone really care what some british dude thinks?


Yes it does look that way doesn't it. Everytime I watch a movie its always zoomed in on the American(s) , its like the rest of the world does not exist. That skit on the Regular Show nailed it on the head.. USA USA !

 

[MrQuackers]

America, Fark yeah!

 

[Falcon_LS]

Some interesting points for sure.

A major contributor is also the quality of fuel, which I haven't seen discussed yet. Over in the Middle East, where fuel quality is well behind the developed world, people change oil at ridiculously low intervals. Some people change their oil every month, some people change their oil every 2,000 km (1,250 miles). Inevitably, most of the oil blended in this part of the world is inferior at best compared to what's on the shelves in Europe and the United States. Gasoline in this part of the world is also extremely high in MMT.

Personally, I'm paying $3.58/gallon for Euro V gasoline imported from the UK and tend to following the OLM on my GM, which is my DD. I certainly do have an OCD, and admit to doing a simple drain and refill whenever the OLM hits 50% (averages about 11,500 km (7,200 mi)). When the OLM hits 1%, it's a new air filter (dusty conditions), oil filter and an oil change.

I follow a standard 15,000 km (9,375 mi)/1 year for my Grand Marquis, which also runs on Euro V and also includes a new air filter and oil filter. It doesn't really get driven that much. The Explorer, Expedition and Pajero run on Euro II - because of the high sulfur content, these guys get an oil change every 8,000 km (5,000 mi).

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: BeerCan
So what percentage of the American motoring public changes their oil at 3k? Can I see the source of your data?

The small sample set I know follow their olm and they are all between 5 and 10k. I think the 3k people are getting less and less every year, but I am speculating.

BTW you don't have to act like such a tool.


I think the majority of people always go well, well, over 3000 miles ... even if that is what is printed on the jiffy lube window sticker.

I know a few people with OLMs in their vehicle - and they drive a few months with it at 0 until it is convenient to get it changed. One of them has a 2005 Accord (on which he refuses to change the timing belt at >130K miles) that routinely goes 12000, 15000 on whatever valvoline instant oil change puts in the engine.

He has put at least 50,000 miles on the car (last time I saw it close to a year ago) and has done maybe 3 or 4 oil changes.

 

[Plawan]

If it seems like Americans minimize, overlook or straight out just forget to remember that the rest of you exist,
Its because we do hahaj get over it

 

[finmile]

I think the price of goods affects our behaviour quite much.

In Europe gasoline and oil are expensive, so we want cars with the best fuel economy and the longest OCI possible. A new car with 15,000 km OCI doesn't sound too appealing anymore. 20,000 km OCI seems to be the new minimum. And if this is what the consumers want, this is what they get.

Today it can be as crazy as a three cylinder 1.0 liter turbocharged GDI engine with 30,000 km OCI, even if there's a risk that the engine is shot at 200k km (I'm not sure if this exact combination can be found from the market, but you get the idea).

On the other hand in USA oil and gasoline are dirt cheap. So why would the consumers be too concerned about a bit shorter OCI or poorer gas mileage. Bigger engines with shorter OCIs fits quite nicely to this low cost environment. And in this environment it's easy to keep the 3k miles OCI myth alive.

Money talks. If the oil change would be $79 instead of $29 would people want to extend the OCI? At least it would make them think twice, wouldn't it.

[offtopic]I'm glad to hear that Mr. T "the wall builder" isn't going to rule the USA in the future.

When G.W.B. was elected as the president, I remember some interviews from the USA, where people were saying: "I want to say to people living outside of USA that 50% of us didn't vote for him".[/offtopic]

 

[bbhero]

Full synthetic oil changes can easily cost in excess of $60 for many people here.

In regards to your thoughts at the end of your post. . Our nation and Europe are having the same concerns in having many people coming into them. There have been some serious events as a result of this. The drug cartels make large sums of money using people as transporters for their drugs, forcing others to pay them to be led across the border, and women have been brought in to be used in a undesirable way. The drug cartels will hunt down and kill those attempting to cross in here by themselves. This has turned into yet another revenue stream for these cartels. This is more than unfortunate for those involved. It shows a true lack of compassion. When control is given over to very unsavory and unscrupulous individuals then the result is what we have.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Joe90 Guy,

I am just starting to get involved in this thread. I am responding to,the original post, as that is all I have read.


You see on Bob quite regularly about AFE vs EP. They cost about the same so why not run EP for 5-6000 miles and be happy? And we actually study the subject.


Now, for normal driving....commuting and such for many who just get point A to B and drive thru the lube shack whenever they feel like it are, my guess, going 3,4,5,6000 miles on bulk oil and will run it 5-10 years if the odometer hasnt rolled over much.

For the DIY, non-BITOG crowd. I think a majority seek out the cheapest way to get 5 quarts and a filter. So a 3000 OCI would probably be about as close to perfect for the scenario.


Then, of course, there are some who try to do too much, find More Power, or just try to pamper the car and maybe they buy on price- but the highest priced oil and filter.... Who knows what they will do? Maybe a $50 oil change for 3 months or 3000 miles, but maybe they are street racing or visiting the racetrack from time to time....


Then there are some who probably follow the manual to the tee....and then some who use the manual as a general guideline.





I had a 87 automobile that called for 7500 mile OCI.....so maybe it was doable then or maybe the factories can make mistakes......eg the sludgers you read about on here from time to time.