Searching through voa of new sm oils, wondering if sodium may be involved for sludge protection. I believe silicone helps with anti-foaming? I see castrol and many others claiming to prevent sludge. What should I look for on these voa's for the best protection?
what oil additive for sludge prevention?
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Some engines have a greater propensity to sludge up than others. A couple of years ago Toyota had a rash of engines turn up sludged out even when the owner followed Toyota's most liberal maintenance schedule. The ensuing investigstion turned up cylinder head coolant passages that were too small which yielded high head temps and too much of a temp spread between the top and bottom of the engine. As a result the oil would get superheated when in the area of the head and by the time it had circulated back down to the pan it's temperature had dropped 40 degrees or more. This continious heating / cooling cycle caused the oil to breakdown and sludge up. Most of those engines failed, but the ones that didn't, stay alive by religious use of high quality synthetic oil with 3k OCI's. Automotive News noted that GM has internal engineering edicts that state that any GM engine will have no more than a 15 degree drop top to bottom. Phenomenons such as this Toyota thing and overextended OCI'S on regular engines cause most of the sludge sorrows one hears about. The used oil analysis section of this board is loaded with great UOA's than owe their success to little more than name brand oils (dino or synthetic)that get changed between 3k and 5k. Your agonizing over the composition of this oil or that is probably a waste of time as, short of a voa, nobody really knows what's in the additive package (proprietary information, you see). Go with an oil you like, keep track of it's performance through UOA's and adjust as necessary. Sorry for the long post!! Cheers all DV
Great post above!! Castrol saying that is all marketing. Its ________. As the above stated using a high quality sythetic oil and quality filter will go along way.
A good rule to follow is also get the oil up to temp every time you drive it also prevents sludge. Use the recomended oil per time of year temp wise and you are good to go.
A good rule to follow is also get the oil up to temp every time you drive it also prevents sludge. Use the recomended oil per time of year temp wise and you are good to go.
Most of these engines (1mz etc) failed? There are over 3,000,000 egnies and only a little over 3,200 cases. Plus Toyota never stated there was a problem with design.
I also do not do 3K mile drain on my Amsoil. I was doing 3X that and the oil tests where good and the inside of valve cover was/is clean.
A good add for sludge is LC20.
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Do we have any clues on the sm rated oil with extra sodium? I was always under the impression calcium, magnesium were part of the detergent properties of sl oil.
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What make, model and engine size do you have?
Do you want dino, syn-blend or synthetic oils?
How long will your OCIs be?
Do you want dino, syn-blend or synthetic oils?
How long will your OCIs be?
I have an 03 ram 4.7 excellent engine. Ran a search on past posts of this engine on bitog, found out I wasn't alone on the filler neck getting gunked with sludge. I decided to do some research on voa post for a good dino with possibly higher detergent properties. Couldn't come to my own conclusion. Now the funny thing is I've been running mobil 1 5w30 for 4 oil change intervals an 5k each. Recently switched to st synthetic 5w30. I run approx 10 mile trips half highway. May eventually pull the valve cover off to take a peek inside, but currently have a broken wrist. I bought this truck at 38k 1 year ago. Currently have 60k on it.
fwiw, supertech synthetic jug says it helps prevent sludge buildup
fwiw, supertech synthetic jug says it helps prevent sludge buildup
Most of these engines (1mz etc) failed? There are over 3,000,000 egnies and only a little over 3,200 cases. Plus Toyota never stated there was a problem with design.
I also do not do 3K mile drain on my Amsoil. I was doing 3X that and the oil tests where good and the inside of valve cover was/is clean.
A good add for sludge is LC20.
According to one website (toyoland.com) about the Toyota sludging problem, it affects 96-01 V6 and 4 cylinder engines and was believed to be caused by either excessive heat or a crankcase ventilation problem. 1% of the vehicles is mentioned as being the known failure rate. It also says that Toyota's recommended solution to the sludging problem is careful oil changes and use synthetic oil. I recall reading that Toyota did change the design of these engines to prevent the problem from happening.
I also do not do 3K mile drain on my Amsoil. I was doing 3X that and the oil tests where good and the inside of valve cover was/is clean.
A good add for sludge is LC20.
According to one website (toyoland.com) about the Toyota sludging problem, it affects 96-01 V6 and 4 cylinder engines and was believed to be caused by either excessive heat or a crankcase ventilation problem. 1% of the vehicles is mentioned as being the known failure rate. It also says that Toyota's recommended solution to the sludging problem is careful oil changes and use synthetic oil. I recall reading that Toyota did change the design of these engines to prevent the problem from happening.
Best protection against sludge? No need to look in a voa for a certain additive, just run a shorter oci than normal if its a major concern. Also running synthetic would be the best protection against sludge, imo because of its superior base, not some "special" additive.
James, the Na in the SM formulas is a legit additive. I don't care for that, but that's how E-M went about their SM dino formulation.
I agree sm oils are not telling the story of there addpack on voa, but rather uoa tells us the storys of how these oils perform overall. With the trend of lower calcium, magnesium, zddp in newer oil, perhaps an oil with higher sodium could be the answer, (I'm afraid I can only speculate on this)
Thanks guys. I think I'll call mobil tomorrow, see if I can get an answer from them. Will post results
I would just look for black dirty oil, and change it at 3K conventional and 5K max synthetic. If it is not black and dirty then you have the wrong oil. And keep in mind that there is nothing magic about synthetics. They have low solvency and need a lot of help to prevent sludge formation.
I was thinking that too, Rob AKA. Don't know if a higher group oil is the answer.
It's been a while since the Toyota sludge issue went down but if I recall correctly Toyota's engineers tightened up the head coolant passages to create more heat in the combustion chamber to aid in emmisions compliance and fuel economy. The sludge issue was traced back to these modifications and later remodified to stop the sludging. How many cars were involved? I don't have that exact number but I can tell you this - it made the cover story in Automotive News and Toyota tried to stonewall the complaining customers, even those who had dealer maintained their cars to the letter of the maintenance schedule. IIRC there was Lexus cars involved too. It wasn't until websites like www.mysludgeduptoyota.com and others started springing up and garnering thousands of hits with comments like "well this is my last Toyota forever" that the company caved in and started warrantying the engines. I also think Toyota extended the warranty on the cars with the affected engines for longer than their normal warranty. If I got the number of cars affected wrong I apologize. I just remember thinking, after reading the story, that Toyota will be scratched off the family car shopping list. Can you imagine a Toyota dealer telling a hardcore bitoger that he hasn't properly oiled his car? And then denying the warranty? Scary thought. Cheers All!!! DV
Well, both you and Ron are wrong then. But hey, it's not my engine.
Would you stop spreading nonsense. Black dirty oil means that the soot and other contaminates are in suspension, what does it have to do with sludge? Also, how can you recommend an oci when you have no idea what kind of vehicle he drives, what type of driving he does, etc?
It seems that as time passes, and bitog gets more members.. i go more and more
Remembeer James..those 11 mile trips are considered "severe duty" ..so you should do short intervals... I used to travel 100 miles perday ...with bypass and changed my oil filter every 3000 or so ...now have 20 miles per day ... I change it now at 1500 or so ..
as for the detergent question ..I belive Calcioum is another add that helps clean the engine..and your Mobile 1 is one of the best oils for cleaning you will find
SXG6 very well stated.
I too have a Dodge Ram / 4.7l engine,
it's the PCV system's design, location and choice of materials (plastic) that causes the emulsion build-up in the oil fill tube. (it's not oil sludge)
Even using M1 5W30 on short intervals from day one didn't help any in cold Montréal winters,
until I removed the oil fill tube from the engine and wrapped it with several layers of foil type insulation..
no more emulsion/condensation build-up in there whatsoever.
Mike
it's the PCV system's design, location and choice of materials (plastic) that causes the emulsion build-up in the oil fill tube. (it's not oil sludge)
Even using M1 5W30 on short intervals from day one didn't help any in cold Montréal winters,
until I removed the oil fill tube from the engine and wrapped it with several layers of foil type insulation..
no more emulsion/condensation build-up in there whatsoever.
Mike
Many oil reports for regular SM oil appear to perform VERY well under severe conditions. In these reports where the oil's physical properties has been obviously beat up, additives were not depleated and the insolubles level is .2 or .3 which proves acids and oxidation are nuetralized and carbon deposits are in suspension, or trapped in the filter.
These are some things I look at in UOA reports.
These are some things I look at in UOA reports.
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