What are the reasons why oil would get pre-maturely dirty, only if visibly?
Bad PCV? Blow-by? Anything else?
Bad PCV? Blow-by? Anything else?
What makes fresh oil dirty under 1500 miles
- Thread starter dgsbikes
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No Seriously...what are the reasons! I am more interested in the "visibly" dirty part of it that quickly after an oil change.
I think that at least so early in the life of the oil, it has to be soot than anything else like the additives changing color as the oil does it's job, right?
Please assume continued synthetic oil use, normal driving conditions and reasonable OCIs and frequent enough contiguous half an hour freeway speeds at least once a week.
I think that at least so early in the life of the oil, it has to be soot than anything else like the additives changing color as the oil does it's job, right?
Please assume continued synthetic oil use, normal driving conditions and reasonable OCIs and frequent enough contiguous half an hour freeway speeds at least once a week.
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Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
No Seriously...what are the reasons!
He did give you a good reason. High detergent oils will clean the engine quickly. Excessive blowby would cause an oil to soot up quickly too.
Hopefully it's the first explanation.
No Seriously...what are the reasons!
He did give you a good reason. High detergent oils will clean the engine quickly. Excessive blowby would cause an oil to soot up quickly too.
Hopefully it's the first explanation.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
No Seriously...what are the reasons!
He did give you a good reason. High detergent oils will clean the engine quickly. Excessive blowby would cause an oil to soot up quickly too.
Hopefully it's the first explanation.
I understand! My point, that I failed to clarify in the OP but have done so in my 2nd post on this thread was that what's there to clean right after an OC if synthetic, reasonable OCIs have been followed, non-sludgy engine, and extended operating temps frequently, etc.?
Is blow-by the only reason? If so, wouldn't it result in noticeable loss in compression? Or maybe codes?
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
No Seriously...what are the reasons!
He did give you a good reason. High detergent oils will clean the engine quickly. Excessive blowby would cause an oil to soot up quickly too.
Hopefully it's the first explanation.
I understand! My point, that I failed to clarify in the OP but have done so in my 2nd post on this thread was that what's there to clean right after an OC if synthetic, reasonable OCIs have been followed, non-sludgy engine, and extended operating temps frequently, etc.?
Is blow-by the only reason? If so, wouldn't it result in noticeable loss in compression? Or maybe codes?
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You could take the oil cap off with the engine running to look for blowby. The computer has no way to diagnose the condition.
How black is the oil. Maybe a picture?
My old Pontiac engine turns the oil dark just fast idling for an hour. But it has very low compression numbers on 2 cylinders and obvious blowby seen from the breather and when the oil cap is off.
How black is the oil. Maybe a picture?
My old Pontiac engine turns the oil dark just fast idling for an hour. But it has very low compression numbers on 2 cylinders and obvious blowby seen from the breather and when the oil cap is off.
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van depending on usage)
Used a Napa 0w20SN and VSP 5w-30SM in about 25/75 ratio as I couldn't find PU at the time. Changed the filter (P1 2007/8 stock) It's almost 6K on this OCI. So at this point, the oil is expected to be dirty enough, at least visibly. Just that this OC, the oil did seem to get darker much quicker than before. The van did lose some oil that last OCI which was also a bit extended than usual, but never before!
Maybe it was just the PCV as it was a bit sticky and didn't rattle enough. Cleaned it with brake parts cleaner about 5K on this OC. I will be replacing it next oil change and see what happens. I managed to get PU from Walmart, so the van will be back on PU this next OCI that has worked excellently so far on the van. I will also run a Napa Gold instead of P1 this time around to rule out filter media failure on the 2007/8 stock P1.
Was wondering if there are other areas that I should look into.
Used a Napa 0w20SN and VSP 5w-30SM in about 25/75 ratio as I couldn't find PU at the time. Changed the filter (P1 2007/8 stock) It's almost 6K on this OCI. So at this point, the oil is expected to be dirty enough, at least visibly. Just that this OC, the oil did seem to get darker much quicker than before. The van did lose some oil that last OCI which was also a bit extended than usual, but never before!
Maybe it was just the PCV as it was a bit sticky and didn't rattle enough. Cleaned it with brake parts cleaner about 5K on this OC. I will be replacing it next oil change and see what happens. I managed to get PU from Walmart, so the van will be back on PU this next OCI that has worked excellently so far on the van. I will also run a Napa Gold instead of P1 this time around to rule out filter media failure on the 2007/8 stock P1.
Was wondering if there are other areas that I should look into.
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One more thing, I just recalled I switched from an Honda Genuine (Filtech) Engine Air Filter to Wix Gold along with the last oil change.
Some oil may oxidize or just turn darker with heat faster. It's all subjective and not a cause for worry.
I'm sure you will have tons of advice of all kinds in the morning.
I'm sure you will have tons of advice of all kinds in the morning.
Dirt entering the engine with the air. Dirt ingestion.
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van depending on usage
This engine is notoriously hard on engine oil. Your engine is not as clean as you assume. What makes your oil change color is indeed the cleaning of your engine. What typically darkens any oil in use is heat, cleaning old oil residue, blow by, excessive fuel in the oil.
Of course color change doesn't mean all that much as to the current oil life (remaining).
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van depending on usage
This engine is notoriously hard on engine oil. Your engine is not as clean as you assume. What makes your oil change color is indeed the cleaning of your engine. What typically darkens any oil in use is heat, cleaning old oil residue, blow by, excessive fuel in the oil.
Of course color change doesn't mean all that much as to the current oil life (remaining).
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van
This is the reason. Under the covers and in the VCM system its probably getting nasty. 6-7K is possibly not as well maintained as you think on this engine.
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
Maybe it was just the PCV as it was a bit sticky and didn't rattle enough.
This is a sure sign that all is not going well with these engines. Change the oil more often, 5K.
Pablo and i posted close to each other. I must have read his mind.
Seriously 80K is about the time for some of these 3.5 iVETC engines have a problem you don't need to get into.
I have seen this many times and posted pics of engines at these miles that had 7500 mile synthetic OCI.
If you get a VSA and CEL light along with running on 3 cylinders post back before taking it to a dealer.
There are a few things you can try to clear it up before tearing into it.
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van
This is the reason. Under the covers and in the VCM system its probably getting nasty. 6-7K is possibly not as well maintained as you think on this engine.
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
Maybe it was just the PCV as it was a bit sticky and didn't rattle enough.
This is a sure sign that all is not going well with these engines. Change the oil more often, 5K.
Pablo and i posted close to each other. I must have read his mind.
Seriously 80K is about the time for some of these 3.5 iVETC engines have a problem you don't need to get into.
I have seen this many times and posted pics of engines at these miles that had 7500 mile synthetic OCI.
If you get a VSA and CEL light along with running on 3 cylinders post back before taking it to a dealer.
There are a few things you can try to clear it up before tearing into it.
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van depending on usage
This engine is notoriously hard on engine oil. Your engine is not as clean as you assume. What makes your oil change color is indeed the cleaning of your engine. What typically darkens any oil in use is heat, cleaning old oil residue, blow by, excessive fuel in the oil.
Of course color change doesn't mean all that much as to the current oil life (remaining).
Everyone here assumes that Honda engines are easy on oil, why is this particular hard? What about the Honda R18 engine in the Civic? I've seen it get dirty after 1-2k as well.
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van depending on usage
This engine is notoriously hard on engine oil. Your engine is not as clean as you assume. What makes your oil change color is indeed the cleaning of your engine. What typically darkens any oil in use is heat, cleaning old oil residue, blow by, excessive fuel in the oil.
Of course color change doesn't mean all that much as to the current oil life (remaining).
Everyone here assumes that Honda engines are easy on oil, why is this particular hard? What about the Honda R18 engine in the Civic? I've seen it get dirty after 1-2k as well.
These engines need synthetic oil with 5K OCI's or less... I know from personal knowledge that you really need to stay on top of the maintenance. I would also make sure the fuel system is clean and would use Redline Sl-1 in a tank of fuel before changing your oil...
Diesel engine? They'll turn oil black almost instantly.
Fresh oil means fresh detergent.
My guess is that this is the point that your oil is about to start laying down varnish...
Paying attention to my L67 on the current OCI, with visible varnish in the valve covers, and using an oil alleged to have superior cleaning properties, the oil was clear on the dipstick for week after week after week, then at around 800-900km, got dark, so I changed the oil (was $2.30/litre, which is crazy cheap for Oz, and the reason for my experiment)...the change was rapid. The removed oil was not see through in any way shape or form in a 3/4" glass bottle. I was hoping that it was transluscent enough to heat and cool, and see if I could make it cloudy at lower temperatures.
Oil both dissolves, and produces varnish. It can hold varnish in solution until it is saturated with varnish, then it lays it down ...somewhere, usually not where it is made in the system.
So if an engine is varnish free, the oil will stay clear for a fair part of an OCI. If the oil is changed before it has made enough varnish to be saturated with the stuff, you will enter a new OCI with an "as new" approach to the oil and engine.
However, once the oil is saturate in service, it has to lay down the new varnish.
Once varnish is there, a new oil change will be dissolving old varnish while the engine is making new...and MAY thus get dark/opaque quite early.
It's only a guess, and my opinion, but I've got a little insight into varnish.
Paying attention to my L67 on the current OCI, with visible varnish in the valve covers, and using an oil alleged to have superior cleaning properties, the oil was clear on the dipstick for week after week after week, then at around 800-900km, got dark, so I changed the oil (was $2.30/litre, which is crazy cheap for Oz, and the reason for my experiment)...the change was rapid. The removed oil was not see through in any way shape or form in a 3/4" glass bottle. I was hoping that it was transluscent enough to heat and cool, and see if I could make it cloudy at lower temperatures.
Oil both dissolves, and produces varnish. It can hold varnish in solution until it is saturated with varnish, then it lays it down ...somewhere, usually not where it is made in the system.
So if an engine is varnish free, the oil will stay clear for a fair part of an OCI. If the oil is changed before it has made enough varnish to be saturated with the stuff, you will enter a new OCI with an "as new" approach to the oil and engine.
However, once the oil is saturate in service, it has to lay down the new varnish.
Once varnish is there, a new oil change will be dissolving old varnish while the engine is making new...and MAY thus get dark/opaque quite early.
It's only a guess, and my opinion, but I've got a little insight into varnish.
First, oil color is NOT an indication of oil condition.
Second, I have noticed that Iron block engines or engines with aluminum heads and iron blocks tend to make oil darker faster than engines with all aluminum blocks and heads.
Second, I have noticed that Iron block engines or engines with aluminum heads and iron blocks tend to make oil darker faster than engines with all aluminum blocks and heads.
I was thinking that you did not get enough of the old oil at at the last oil change.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van depending on usage
This engine is notoriously hard on engine oil. Your engine is not as clean as you assume. What makes your oil change color is indeed the cleaning of your engine. What typically darkens any oil in use is heat, cleaning old oil residue, blow by, excessive fuel in the oil.
Of course color change doesn't mean all that much as to the current oil life (remaining).
+1 ^^ what he said^^^
Originally Posted By: dgsbikes
This is a 2006 Honda Ody with VCM. Has 80K miles on it. Well maintained and serviced. PU 5w20 with OLM + 1k OCIs generally (comes out to about 6K to 7K on this van depending on usage
This engine is notoriously hard on engine oil. Your engine is not as clean as you assume. What makes your oil change color is indeed the cleaning of your engine. What typically darkens any oil in use is heat, cleaning old oil residue, blow by, excessive fuel in the oil.
Of course color change doesn't mean all that much as to the current oil life (remaining).
+1 ^^ what he said^^^
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