What is the consensus on Rotella T 5w40?

[Pablo]

I think, Doug, there is huge difference between a business such as yours and Joe six pack grocery getter self oil changer. Not to say you couldn't apply logical industrial fleet preventive maintenance rules to home cars (I would love it if people would/could) - but in a real world, "it ain't gonna happen". So, some safe, generally applicable, logical numbers must be generated by the oil companies with boundaries and maximums. Numbers specific to a motor oil, such as this:

quote:

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SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:

• Normal Service(3) – Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.

• Replace AMSOIL oil filter at 12,500 miles or six months, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).

• Severe Service(4) – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.

• Replace AMSOIL oil filter at 15,000 miles or six months, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).

• In all other applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.

*OEM – Original Equipment Manufacturer

(1) Where the engine or operating conditions have been modified from the original manufacturers’ design, drain oil at the owner’s discretion or extend based on oil analysis. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; modified exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturers.

(2) Engines are in good working condition and within the factory design settings. Mechanically sound engines, for example, do not leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not have internal or external anti-freeze leaks and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils.

(3) Non-turbo/non-supercharged personal transportation vehicles frequently traveling greater than 10 miles at a time and not operating under severe service.

(4) Turbo/supercharged vehicles, commercial or fleet vehicles, extensive engine idling, first use and subsequent use of AMSOIL engine oil in vehicles with 100,000 miles or greater, daily short trip driving (less than 10 miles), frequent towing, plowing or hauling heavy loads and frequent driving in dusty conditions.

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Doug - I know you like to take your usual shots at Amsoil, but they have been the leader in extended OCI's for passenger cars in the USA since 1972. They really have been - Mobil 1 jumps in and out (they seem to be back on the wagon again now) - the others stick with the 3000 mile OCI no matter that the manufacturers are leaving them in the dust, so to speak.

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi,
yes IMHO Bruce - as long as all of the other factors are comparable as staded earlier!

Some "exotics" may be able to survive extended OCIs and justify their cost very well indeed

The Trucking, Earthmoving and Marine Industries here have been very slow to embrace semi or full synthetic engine oils
Here some fleets have tried them and finally stayed with mineral lubricants citing contamination, cost, fractured service routines, inventory costs and etc.

The main "drivers" have been the Euro makers MB, MAN and lately IVECO - certainly NOT the US engine makers!!

I said;
"Since 1997 there has been no evidence at all of SIGNIFICANT variances in engine component life or end of OCI top up rates!

The OCIs are at 18-25kkms (around 12k miles) at this point top up rate is still very low or non existant. Each truck is "pitted" weekly and Fleet Management allows engine oil levels to reach around "low" level leading up to OC point

OC occurs every 4 or 5 weeks

Doug

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Doug that was a kinda baited question from me since I agree with you 110% and as I said that is something all the blenders big and small do not want know since it seems everyone is pushing some kind of juiced up HDEO or PCMO and they use every goof ball test and to me proves nothing. Only experience will do that and real world testing over a long period of time. To me any good whaterver oil compared to any other whatever oil of same vis and spec will all run fine.

bruce

 

[bruce381]

Doug I think you would agree with me on this I always recomend a shorter rather than longer OCI cause I like to keep out the solids and I think in the long run this is what will allow long engine life "keep it clean"
bruce

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
my oh my, this simple thread has had a long and complex life - is it worth it?

Pablo - no bash of Amsoil's products as I know very little about them. I always presumed that they are at least as good as most others. As you know, my bash concerns BS and mis-information from wherever!
I commend Amsoil's extended OCIs concept with in built "cautions" for the unpracticed

Yes, other Oil Companies still promote 3k OCIs with oils that clearly can do one year or 10-12k with ease. Since the mid 1960s I have lived in a very different world to that!
So, I am a little biased towards the ACEA and Euro oil Quality standards that are realistic in a world of diminishing or increasingly expensive resources

Even the Porsche Service Providers still tell owners to change their M1 at 3k when the factory clearly states 1 year or 12k! At least MB now use an accurate OCI computer like they do in their heavy trucks! Their cars here seem to be averaging at least 17-18kkms OCIs!

AS a matter of interest Detroit Diesel here at local level still tell me ".....you shouldn't use a synthetic oil in our engines Mate - its too thin...." I ask you - after lots of engines and 7 years of use!!!!

They also state "...extended OCIs will invalidate our warranty..." Well now.......!

Bruce - I knew the question had a fish on the end of it!

Yes I agree with you - and probably like you I do not arbtrarily set an OCI if UOAs are still being used. We use viscosity, soot and iron levels etc then! (It is usually soot or iron)
On engines that are in the system and not subject to UOAs we say 90-100kkms. We know by the median of all OCIs that this is cost effective (above our "break even" of 70kkms) and well below our high point of 130kkms

Better 10kkms less for an OCI than 20kkms too far!

We use a centrifuge separator for "solids" and without it I think our DDEC4 engines would have had their OCI median reduced by about 15-20kkms
The payback (on around $A1900 fitted) for the MANN-Hummel separator is around 500kkms as mentioned earlier

I hope that other people have not found this thread too boring!

Doug

 

[Pablo]

Boring? Heck no......Off track? maybe (this was a Rotella thread after all

)

 

[Curious Kid]

Not at all...this is all good stuff for one's choices are all far reaching, and some like you know this while others would like to think they do - I know I sure would. It all goes towards making the "educated decision."

Thanks guys!

As far as MPG and HDEO's, well such engines where specified tend to push the envelope of what most people see for operative conditions I would think, where hydrodynamic films are continually being challenged and boost numbers average high most of the time. I wouldn't think lube related fuel economy would have much of a chance to present itself in said conditions. But like I said, just a thought...and yes every effort does help in the long run, I agree.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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A big ADVANTAGE of smaller suppliers often overlooked in todays "cut throat" world is SERVICE! SERVICE in its widest context!

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Agreed!

But smaller entities can also reformulate quicker (because of their JIT inventory system), respond quicker to specialized requirements, and supply in small volumes, whereas larger companies don't want to talk to you unless you move 500,000 gallons a year (Lubrizol comes to mind).

Also, they don't usually have a large backlog of oil they have to dump when reformulating.

 

[MolaKule]

BTW,

Shell Rotella T GroupIII synthetic is a good value, but I still think the smaller companies offer better overall value.

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
[QB]

A big ADVANTAGE of smaller suppliers often overlooked in todays "cut throat" world is SERVICE! SERVICE in its widest context!

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Agreed!

But smaller entities can also reformulate quicker (because of their JIT inventory system), respond quicker to specialized requirements, and supply in small volumes, whereas larger companies don't want to talk to you unless you move 500,000 gallons a year (Lubrizol comes to mind).

I guess you do not use LZ funny LZ has always been good to me I have more trouble with afton and infinium.

bruce