What is the best GM engine?

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cutehumor:
hey guys, I was driving back from school and saw the pontiac G6. It looked pretty sharp. the 3.5 engine is brand new for the vehicle. I would be tempted but since I have to buy a vehicle in less than a year. I'm going to have to pass especially with new engine bugs that may happen.

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Yeah, IMO, the G6 is one of the nicest looking GM products I've ever seen. I think it represents a huge leap in styling, but again, that's my opinion.

Sadly, I also have to agree that were I in the market for a car, I'd pass on the G6 for at least a couple years. There have been too many bad intakes, slapping pistons, etc. for me to buy a 3.5L (new engine) equipped car until I've seen how it establishes itself in the real world.

Oh yeah, to answer the question, having owned two 3.8L cars (both SC-ed versions) I'd say that the 3.8L/231 is the winner by a long margin.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

3.8 should be pretty reliable if you don't get a leaking intake gasket.

 

[Shaman]

3.8 w/ SC. Let's not talk about the tranny though.

 

[kenw]

with all the raves on the 3.8L S/C, isn't this the one GM has now replaced?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Cutehumor, The 4.2 had some initial problems but they have worked them out. initialy they had sleeve cracking issues and so did the ecotec. They also had a problem with timeing chain tensioner being installed backward and other parts mix ups between the the whole family spawned from the 4.2 Vortec.

It is a good motor but is not that powerful in relation to it's displacement. Many people think that it's low end torq. is deficient and that it is too biased towards high end HP. I think it is a wounderful replacement for the 4.3 Vortec V6. It does not appear to have any new or continueing problems.

GM worked ut the intake leak on the upper adn lower intake manifold on the 3.8 some time ago so you should not have any worrys their. THe 3.8 was going to be replaced but customer demand forced marketing to keep the 3.8 in service until 2009 model year. The plant that build the 3.8 really needs to be redone and it is not cost effective for them to redo the entire place with a phase out around the corner. WHile it is a wounderful engine and my favorite GM power plant the equipment last i heard was being held together with bailing twine! I am sure that this was not meant literaly.

Everytime they tried building the 3.8 at other engine plants production fell so...... I am guessing that long term emissions laws are what is forceing it's demise. I wish they whould have kept the block and lower rotateing assembly for the 3.8 and just redesigned the heads and intake. It is such a good design that it seemed almost stupid to spend good money developing a new power plant to replace it (high content 3.6 V6)when a few tweaks would have done! I am wounder how the new high content V6 is going to fair in the long run. It has alot of new technology that GM has not used since the Catera V6 and the Lotus designed ZR1 V8.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I am guessing that long term emissions laws are what is forceing it's demise.

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Nope, the current version meets SULEV standards and that's without a major redesign in 10 years. The cause is packaging(lost to the 60degree engines) and ignorant stereotypes about camshaft count(lost to new DOHC engines).

-T

 

[Glades101]

Where does the 4.3 Chevy Vortec stand?

 

[DJ]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheTanSedan:
A 305/350 V8 Chevy doesn't even come close to 318/360 Mopar for performance, reliability and longevity all conditions otherwise similar.

The GM smallblock was designed to be cheap to build. And cheap it was. Thus a good thing so many were made, and parts/rebuilds so easy to do.

Let's not even talk about big blocks or sixes.

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PURE ignorance and blind brand loyalty. My vote for best GM engine would be the gen1 and 2 smallblocks, but I think you only get those in a cargo van these days. The Impala is nice and the 3.8 is a solid engine.

 

[TheTanSedan]

A 305/350 V8 Chevy doesn't even come close to 318/360 Mopar for performance, reliability and longevity all conditions otherwise similar.

The GM smallblock was designed to be cheap to build. And cheap it was. Thus a good thing so many were made, and parts/rebuilds so easy to do.

Let's not even talk about big blocks or sixes.

 

[kenw]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheTanSedan:
A 305/350 V8 Chevy doesn't even come close to 318/360 Mopar .......

Let's not even talk about big blocks or sixes.

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we weren't. We weren't even talking about anything other than GM ENGINES.....

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Glades101:
Where does the 4.3 Chevy Vortec stand?

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Early models(early 90s) had problems due to their central port fuel injection system, but they were powerful and economic. The engine is basically a V6 SBC, so a pretty durable engine.

-T

 

[Islandvic]

Isn't the new 3.5 GM motor Chinese sourced?

Do the '05 5.3's have piston slap anymore?

Has it been determined that "piston slap" causes long term durability issues?

It's too bad the Saturn VUE is not eligible. It's a great little SUV with a great Honda engine.

If you can afford the gas, get a Tahoe.

 

[ekpolk]

T-Keith:

I'm surprised at you for not doing this yourself by now. Everyone else, here's a link to T-Keith's recent UOA on his 215k mile 231 (3.8L) equipped Buick. Read it and Weap!

As the old saying goes, vote early, vote often.

 

[JohnBrowning]

T-Keith, You are saying that it was cost effective for them to design and valadate a new engine series (High Content)just for packageing??? That does not seem right. How hard can it be to design your platforms around exsisting engines? I am not saying that you are wrong in any way at all just questioning GM's logic! If the engine meets SULEV right now and has the lowest internal friction of any of their engines, is simple and durable it seems like a no brainer.

Here goes some rocket science for you. We have the side post battery to thank due to GM and their better ideas. They felt that it would allow for "better packageing" they claimed that they could make hoods more stream lined,lower and aerodynamic by getting rid of the top posts.

I would me more impressed if they could package a car that would allow you to change the headlamp bulb with out needing to remove the battery. I would like to be able to change my spark plugs with out haveing to remove a strut tower brace and scratching my arms all to heck. The ability to get to fasteners with tools would be nice as well. Nothing like haveing to take off a bunch of unrelated parts to work on something! You can take on look and tell that it was to make assembly faster and cheaper but come on!!!

In the past their 60 degree V6's have not been smooth,powerful, durable or effiecent. It sure seems like a shame to get rid of a winner!!! I think on of the articles 427Z06 posted mentioned Volvo going to a 60 degree V8 designed by Yamaha. It was also for packageing!!

 

[Steve S]

GM is the heartbreak of America. Why take a chance buying one.

 

[DJ]

John your complains about how difficult it is to do simple things applies to almost everything these days, low slung noses and FWD will do that. There is not a manufacturer out there that has not had issues at some point, the imports just one tend to deal with them better and two tend only to send good cars over here. You don't see GM or Ford marketting the Sunfire or the like overseas they only export the good cars, the imports do the same so we only see the cream skimmed off the top. In recent years the domestics are right up there with the imports quality wise yet people still think imports are better and much of that is due to imports dealing with problems and not argueing about it like domestics. Ford's dickering over the tire thing on the Explorer is a good example instead of admitting it was stupid to put 23psi in a truck tire so it rode like a car they have to blame the tire and have all the court battles and B.S..

 

[T-Keith]

I love side terminal batteries, why anyone would use a crude clamp and top terminals is beyond me. I can change a headlight on all my cars without removing the battery. The "High feature" engines didn't win out toward packaging, the 60degrees did. They are much narrower and since GM put V6s in smaller cars then most companies and their more contous toward packaging, they got the bill. As I said the high feature engines won because of ignorant stereotypes about camshaft count.

-T

 

[labman]

I agree on the side terminals. When I realized how much less trouble I was having with them on my cars, I converted my truck and lawn mower. Much easier to pull the negative terminal as you frequently should when working under the hood.

 

[JohnBrowning]

SIde terminal batterys have a much higher failure rate at least AC/Delco has a higher failure rate with them. THey have a real problem with cracking were the lead and plastic meet. The top post batterys have been good to me. I have had more issues with side terminal. With the top terminals you can see when they need to be cleaned. With the side terminal the corrosion gets in beteen the outer boot and the internal on seperateing the second set of contacts. You cannot see the corision. I have seen a lot of people replace cables on GM vechiles when all they needed to do was cut the boot open and clean it! Repairs are easier to make to top terminal claps and you can more easily add componets to the system. It is also much easier for someone to damage the battery termional on side post by over tightening. It is too easy to remove a top post temrinal conector even if it is harder then a side post to remove.

I still think that getting rid of the 3.8 is going to be a mistake. we will see. I sure hope the they get the NVH and durability of the 3.5 up to the level of the 3.8!!

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:

I still think that getting rid of the 3.8 is going to be a mistake. we will see. I sure hope the they get the NVH and durability of the 3.5 up to the level of the 3.8!!

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I agree. The new Lucerne has the 3800, so we know it has a few more years. The 60degrees have always idled smoothly, but the upper rpms haven't sounded too great. More then likely the Buick's will get the new "high feature" line which seem to be pretty good, but no where near the efficiency o the 3800.

-T