I have a nephew who is into anime and anything Japanese. He loves this character. My other nephew, his brother, thinks it's stupid. Funny thing is they both love the Archies. And although they are only 15 and 12, they both are of the opinion that the Beatles are the best music artists ever.
What is "real music"
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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's music and it's a performance, but it's not real music, talent or a real performer IMO. Whomever writes the songs into the computer could be considered a musician possibly.
This seems kind of silly. To me the whole point of a live concert is to see live musicians play instruments and sing live. Otherwise its just watching music videos.
Agreed.
It's music and it's a performance, but it's not real music, talent or a real performer IMO. Whomever writes the songs into the computer could be considered a musician possibly.
This seems kind of silly. To me the whole point of a live concert is to see live musicians play instruments and sing live. Otherwise its just watching music videos.
Agreed.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Many people who watch anime and this kind of stuff too don't feel like they are "just" a hologram. Make no mistake those people are really and genuinely cheering for her same as they would a live person. A lot of it is inherent cultural and generational difference. When you watch this and stuff, you start to treat them closer to a real person than a "cartoon character" even though one knows its really not.
Its a topic that would make a very interesting psychological study.
Thats whats so hard to wrap my head around, people cheering a cartoon , creeeppyyy.
Many people who watch anime and this kind of stuff too don't feel like they are "just" a hologram. Make no mistake those people are really and genuinely cheering for her same as they would a live person. A lot of it is inherent cultural and generational difference. When you watch this and stuff, you start to treat them closer to a real person than a "cartoon character" even though one knows its really not.
Its a topic that would make a very interesting psychological study.
Thats whats so hard to wrap my head around, people cheering a cartoon , creeeppyyy.
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Many people who watch anime and this kind of stuff too don't feel like they are "just" a hologram. Make no mistake those people are really and genuinely cheering for her same as they would a live person. A lot of it is inherent cultural and generational difference. When you watch this and stuff, you start to treat them closer to a real person than a "cartoon character" even though one knows its really not.
Its a topic that would make a very interesting psychological study.
Thats whats so hard to wrap my head around, people cheering a cartoon , creeeppyyy.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Many people who watch anime and this kind of stuff too don't feel like they are "just" a hologram. Make no mistake those people are really and genuinely cheering for her same as they would a live person. A lot of it is inherent cultural and generational difference. When you watch this and stuff, you start to treat them closer to a real person than a "cartoon character" even though one knows its really not.
Its a topic that would make a very interesting psychological study.
Thats whats so hard to wrap my head around, people cheering a cartoon , creeeppyyy.
It's "real" entertainment and probably shouldn't be taken too seriously; and it is only marginally less "not real" than anything else you hear on the radio.
Are auto-tuned vocals "real"?
How about humans hitting plastic keys on a $10,000 synthesizer triggering samples of other sounds or instruments? What about if those sounds were programmed to happen at a specific point instead of a human hitting a plastic key?
What about humans using pieces of plastic to strike metal strings on a chunk of wood, which vibrate within a small magnetic field, which generates a small electrical current that travels through a cable into another electronic device that makes that shimmering electrical field louder?
What about dynamic range compression and equalization and other effects? These are pre-determined algorithms in soulless machines altering "real" music. Everything you hear on the radio has had its' drums edited to be more machine-like in their temporal accuracy, the vocals auto-tuned and the instruments compressed and EQ'd into oblivion. They've been sequenced and filtered and treated with room reverberation (again, all fake).
Once you've formed your opinion about all of these things, does anything at all in the real world change?
Are auto-tuned vocals "real"?
How about humans hitting plastic keys on a $10,000 synthesizer triggering samples of other sounds or instruments? What about if those sounds were programmed to happen at a specific point instead of a human hitting a plastic key?
What about humans using pieces of plastic to strike metal strings on a chunk of wood, which vibrate within a small magnetic field, which generates a small electrical current that travels through a cable into another electronic device that makes that shimmering electrical field louder?
What about dynamic range compression and equalization and other effects? These are pre-determined algorithms in soulless machines altering "real" music. Everything you hear on the radio has had its' drums edited to be more machine-like in their temporal accuracy, the vocals auto-tuned and the instruments compressed and EQ'd into oblivion. They've been sequenced and filtered and treated with room reverberation (again, all fake).
Once you've formed your opinion about all of these things, does anything at all in the real world change?
meh....
. Similar in theory to Gorillaz.
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians. They just perform with the created personae on stage.
I was going to go with Gwar but they actually perform with those huge costumes on
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians. They just perform with the created personae on stage.
I was going to go with Gwar but they actually perform with those huge costumes on
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
Exactly. This is the same thing. I think it's more of a "Japanese/anime, ew" reaction thing. Being completely honest I would pay full price to go see "her" in concert. If they ever do one out here in the northeast I'll be going to it. Because real or not, I enjoy the music and love her as a character.
And for those who asked, Idk why you couldn't just google it yourself but here are the romaji lyrics to go along with the english ones.
sekai de ichi-ban ohime-sama
sou-iu atsukai kokoro-ete
yo ne?
sono-ichi,
itsumo to chigau kamigata ni
kigatsuku koto
sono-ni,
chanto kutsu made miru-koto,
ii ne?
sono-san,
watashi no kito-koto ni
wa mittsuno kotoba de benji suru koto
wakattara migite ga orisu nano wa
nonantoka-[censored]!
betsu ni wagarara nante itte nain-dakara
kimi ni kokoro kara onotte hoshii no kawaii te
sekai de ichi-ban ohime-sama
kiga-tsuite nee nee
mataseru nante rongai yo
watashi wo dare-dato onotteru no?
mou! nan-daka anai-nono ga tabetai!
ima sugu nii yo?
Ah!
Check one, two!
Aaaaaaaaaaaah!
ketten?
kawaii no machigai desho
nonku wa yurushimasen no
ano ne?
watashi no hanashi chanto kiiteru?
chotto...
a, sore to ne?
shiroi ouma-san kinatteru desho?
nukae ni kite
wakattara kashi-zuite te wo
totte ohime-samaitte
betsu ni wagarara nante itte nain dakara
demo ne sukoshi kurai shikatte
kuretatte ii no yo?
sekai de watashi dake no ouji-sama
kiga-tsuite hora hora
otete ga aitemasu
nukuchi de ouaiso na ouji-sama
mou, doushite?
kiga-tsu te yo hayaku
Oh!
zettai kimi wa wakatte nai!
wakatte nai wa...
ichigo no notta SHORTCAKE
kodawari tanagono torokeru PUDDING
minna, minna gaman shirasu
wagamama na ko dato orowa-nai de
watashi datte yareba-dekiru mon
ato de koukai suru wayo
touzen-desudatte watashi wa
sekai de ichi-banohime-sama
chanto mitete yo ne
dekoka ni icchau yo?
fui-ni dakishine-rareta kyuu ni sonna ee?
hikareru abunai yo,
sou-itte soppo muku kimi
...kocchi noga abunai wayo
Ah!
Hey, baby...
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
Exactly. This is the same thing. I think it's more of a "Japanese/anime, ew" reaction thing. Being completely honest I would pay full price to go see "her" in concert. If they ever do one out here in the northeast I'll be going to it. Because real or not, I enjoy the music and love her as a character.
And for those who asked, Idk why you couldn't just google it yourself but here are the romaji lyrics to go along with the english ones.
sekai de ichi-ban ohime-sama
sou-iu atsukai kokoro-ete
yo ne?
sono-ichi,
itsumo to chigau kamigata ni
kigatsuku koto
sono-ni,
chanto kutsu made miru-koto,
ii ne?
sono-san,
watashi no kito-koto ni
wa mittsuno kotoba de benji suru koto
wakattara migite ga orisu nano wa
nonantoka-[censored]!
betsu ni wagarara nante itte nain-dakara
kimi ni kokoro kara onotte hoshii no kawaii te
sekai de ichi-ban ohime-sama
kiga-tsuite nee nee
mataseru nante rongai yo
watashi wo dare-dato onotteru no?
mou! nan-daka anai-nono ga tabetai!
ima sugu nii yo?
Ah!
Check one, two!
Aaaaaaaaaaaah!
ketten?
kawaii no machigai desho
nonku wa yurushimasen no
ano ne?
watashi no hanashi chanto kiiteru?
chotto...
a, sore to ne?
shiroi ouma-san kinatteru desho?
nukae ni kite
wakattara kashi-zuite te wo
totte ohime-samaitte
betsu ni wagarara nante itte nain dakara
demo ne sukoshi kurai shikatte
kuretatte ii no yo?
sekai de watashi dake no ouji-sama
kiga-tsuite hora hora
otete ga aitemasu
nukuchi de ouaiso na ouji-sama
mou, doushite?
kiga-tsu te yo hayaku
Oh!
zettai kimi wa wakatte nai!
wakatte nai wa...
ichigo no notta SHORTCAKE
kodawari tanagono torokeru PUDDING
minna, minna gaman shirasu
wagamama na ko dato orowa-nai de
watashi datte yareba-dekiru mon
ato de koukai suru wayo
touzen-desudatte watashi wa
sekai de ichi-banohime-sama
chanto mitete yo ne
dekoka ni icchau yo?
fui-ni dakishine-rareta kyuu ni sonna ee?
hikareru abunai yo,
sou-itte soppo muku kimi
...kocchi noga abunai wayo
Ah!
Hey, baby...
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Originally Posted By: Nick R
And she's not real. She's a hologram, with a computer generated voice using a program called vocaloid.
And do your parents approve of this new girlfriend?
Sorry Nick... couldn't resist.
And she's not real. She's a hologram, with a computer generated voice using a program called vocaloid.
And do your parents approve of this new girlfriend?
Sorry Nick... couldn't resist.
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
Soooooo....the former lead singer of Blur had a voice for Gorillaz computer generated to sound just like his voice?
2D's vocals are Damon Albarn.
Yes, it is computer sequenced and sampled but it is done from material performed by musicians. It is not 100% computer generated from the start
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
Soooooo....the former lead singer of Blur had a voice for Gorillaz computer generated to sound just like his voice?
2D's vocals are Damon Albarn.
Yes, it is computer sequenced and sampled but it is done from material performed by musicians. It is not 100% computer generated from the start
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
Soooooo....the former lead singer of Blur had a voice for Gorillaz computer generated to sound just like his voice?
2D's vocals are Damon Albarn.
Yes, it is computer sequenced and sampled but it is done from material performed by musicians. It is not 100% computer generated from the start
Well, I still consider it computer generated, but vocaloid software is based of pre-recording done by a human as well. But it's modified to such an extreme degree that I don't consider it the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saki_Fujita
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The difference is that the audience knows that Gorrilaz's music is performed by real musicians.
Is this a joke?! The Gorillaz records are entirely, 100% computer-generated, sequenced, sampled audio.
Soooooo....the former lead singer of Blur had a voice for Gorillaz computer generated to sound just like his voice?
2D's vocals are Damon Albarn.
Yes, it is computer sequenced and sampled but it is done from material performed by musicians. It is not 100% computer generated from the start
Well, I still consider it computer generated, but vocaloid software is based of pre-recording done by a human as well. But it's modified to such an extreme degree that I don't consider it the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saki_Fujita
Does Milli Vanilli know about this?
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Does Milli Vanilli know about this?
I guess it's not that different.
Truth be told, I've never been to a Gorillaz "performance" I can just download a "live" performance, turn up the audio, then order a t-shirt online and pay for overnight delivery to equal the high cost of buying one there. That way I don't get a bunch of baked out teenagers staring at me and asking, "Why are you here old man? Who is Blur and why are you wearing that shirt here?" (nevermind that Damon Albarn is almost exactly the same age as me)
Does Milli Vanilli know about this?
I guess it's not that different.
Truth be told, I've never been to a Gorillaz "performance" I can just download a "live" performance, turn up the audio, then order a t-shirt online and pay for overnight delivery to equal the high cost of buying one there. That way I don't get a bunch of baked out teenagers staring at me and asking, "Why are you here old man? Who is Blur and why are you wearing that shirt here?" (nevermind that Damon Albarn is almost exactly the same age as me)
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Yes, it is computer sequenced and sampled but it is done from material performed by musicians. It is not 100% computer generated from the start
What exactly would music "computer generated from the start" sound like?! You realize computers don't compose any of this, right? None of that material is "performed": It is all, 100%, sequenced and generated by computers and samplers. People program sequencers and samplers, choose the samples, etc. In much the same way a composer would "generate" a composition on sheet music and then use the members of an orchestra to make the sounds, humans "compose" (I had to really stretch to use the word "compose" as it pertains to modern pop music!) the ideas and notes and such on a computer; but computers make the actual sounds. I run a recording studio, by the way. This, heart-breakingly, is simply how it is done.
Yes, it is computer sequenced and sampled but it is done from material performed by musicians. It is not 100% computer generated from the start
What exactly would music "computer generated from the start" sound like?! You realize computers don't compose any of this, right? None of that material is "performed": It is all, 100%, sequenced and generated by computers and samplers. People program sequencers and samplers, choose the samples, etc. In much the same way a composer would "generate" a composition on sheet music and then use the members of an orchestra to make the sounds, humans "compose" (I had to really stretch to use the word "compose" as it pertains to modern pop music!) the ideas and notes and such on a computer; but computers make the actual sounds. I run a recording studio, by the way. This, heart-breakingly, is simply how it is done.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's music and it's a performance, but it's not real music, talent or a real performer IMO. Whomever writes the songs into the computer could be considered a musician possibly.
This seems kind of silly. To me the whole point of a live concert is to see live musicians play instruments and sing live. Otherwise its just watching music videos.
That's the crux of the matter. They KNOW that she isn't real. But they don't care. As far as they are concerned, she is. But can we say that she isn't an artist? It's an odd question. Theres no denying that she IS a hugely popular and "successful" pop star, both in Japan and elsewhere.
So how is she different from the rest of the manufactured pop stars? She can't sing, play, or write, and has other people using electronics to create her voice...how is that different from Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, Justin Beiber, any boy band, etc?
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's music and it's a performance, but it's not real music, talent or a real performer IMO. Whomever writes the songs into the computer could be considered a musician possibly.
This seems kind of silly. To me the whole point of a live concert is to see live musicians play instruments and sing live. Otherwise its just watching music videos.
That's the crux of the matter. They KNOW that she isn't real. But they don't care. As far as they are concerned, she is. But can we say that she isn't an artist? It's an odd question. Theres no denying that she IS a hugely popular and "successful" pop star, both in Japan and elsewhere.
So how is she different from the rest of the manufactured pop stars? She can't sing, play, or write, and has other people using electronics to create her voice...how is that different from Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, Justin Beiber, any boy band, etc?
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
It's "real" entertainment and probably shouldn't be taken too seriously; and it is only marginally less "not real" than anything else you hear on the radio.
Are auto-tuned vocals "real"?
How about humans hitting plastic keys on a $10,000 synthesizer triggering samples of other sounds or instruments? What about if those sounds were programmed to happen at a specific point instead of a human hitting a plastic key?
What about humans using pieces of plastic to strike metal strings on a chunk of wood, which vibrate within a small magnetic field, which generates a small electrical current that travels through a cable into another electronic device that makes that shimmering electrical field louder?
What about dynamic range compression and equalization and other effects? These are pre-determined algorithms in soulless machines altering "real" music. Everything you hear on the radio has had its' drums edited to be more machine-like in their temporal accuracy, the vocals auto-tuned and the instruments compressed and EQ'd into oblivion. They've been sequenced and filtered and treated with room reverberation (again, all fake).
Once you've formed your opinion about all of these things, does anything at all in the real world change?
If it can't be performed acoustically, it's probably lousy music. [/thread]
It's "real" entertainment and probably shouldn't be taken too seriously; and it is only marginally less "not real" than anything else you hear on the radio.
Are auto-tuned vocals "real"?
How about humans hitting plastic keys on a $10,000 synthesizer triggering samples of other sounds or instruments? What about if those sounds were programmed to happen at a specific point instead of a human hitting a plastic key?
What about humans using pieces of plastic to strike metal strings on a chunk of wood, which vibrate within a small magnetic field, which generates a small electrical current that travels through a cable into another electronic device that makes that shimmering electrical field louder?
What about dynamic range compression and equalization and other effects? These are pre-determined algorithms in soulless machines altering "real" music. Everything you hear on the radio has had its' drums edited to be more machine-like in their temporal accuracy, the vocals auto-tuned and the instruments compressed and EQ'd into oblivion. They've been sequenced and filtered and treated with room reverberation (again, all fake).
Once you've formed your opinion about all of these things, does anything at all in the real world change?
If it can't be performed acoustically, it's probably lousy music. [/thread]
Originally Posted By: Nick R
That's the crux of the matter. They KNOW that she isn't real. But they don't care. As far as they are concerned, she is. But can we say that she isn't an artist? It's an odd question. Theres no denying that she IS a hugely popular and "successful" pop star, both in Japan and elsewhere.
But the fact remains it's nothing more than a computer program, with no real heart and soul. Just because a few fools in Japan and elsewhere fawn over a fake computer image still doesn't make it real, no matter how much they want it to be. It will never draw it's inspiration from the audience, it's performance will be exactly the same time and time again, and it will never need to practice in order to perfect that slight nuance that seems to elude it. The heart of it's music is nothing more than a computer program, and it will never be able to put it a lifetime of human experience into what it passes off as music.
A real performer pours their heart and soul into their music. They don't rely on computers, fakery or electronic gizmos for their talent. Their talent is the result of hard work, years of dedication, practice, and a love for the music. A real performer draws energy from the audience, and uses that energy to improve their own performance, something your cartoon character can never do.
That's the crux of the matter. They KNOW that she isn't real. But they don't care. As far as they are concerned, she is. But can we say that she isn't an artist? It's an odd question. Theres no denying that she IS a hugely popular and "successful" pop star, both in Japan and elsewhere.
But the fact remains it's nothing more than a computer program, with no real heart and soul. Just because a few fools in Japan and elsewhere fawn over a fake computer image still doesn't make it real, no matter how much they want it to be. It will never draw it's inspiration from the audience, it's performance will be exactly the same time and time again, and it will never need to practice in order to perfect that slight nuance that seems to elude it. The heart of it's music is nothing more than a computer program, and it will never be able to put it a lifetime of human experience into what it passes off as music.
A real performer pours their heart and soul into their music. They don't rely on computers, fakery or electronic gizmos for their talent. Their talent is the result of hard work, years of dedication, practice, and a love for the music. A real performer draws energy from the audience, and uses that energy to improve their own performance, something your cartoon character can never do.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
But the fact remains it's nothing more than a computer program, with no real heart and soul. Just because a few fools in Japan and elsewhere fawn over a fake computer image still doesn't make it real, no matter how much they want it to be. It will never draw it's inspiration from the audience, it's performance will be exactly the same time and time again, and it will never need to practice in order to perfect that slight nuance that seems to elude it. The heart of it's music is nothing more than a computer program, and it will never be able to put it a lifetime of human experience into what it passes off as music.
A real performer pours their heart and soul into their music. They don't rely on computers, fakery or electronic gizmos for their talent. Their talent is the result of hard work, years of dedication, practice, and a love for the music. A real performer draws energy from the audience, and uses that energy to improve their own performance, something your cartoon character can never do.
I don't know if the OP's virtual "musician" could ever perform live. Don't know how much it would deviate from the virtual sound. But virtual bands like Dethklok and Gorrilaz do perform live.
The personalities of the virtual band are sometimes so over the top and storied that they can enhance the overall listening experience. In a way, it's not all that different than '70s rock operas like Tommy, The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars, The Wall, or Joe's Garage. (no, I'm not comparing Gorillaz or Dethklok to The Who, Pink Floyd, etc... just saying that it gives the songs a back story. I'm a fan of Metalocalypse and Gorillaz obviously but it is not on the level of Pink Floyd or The Who)
But the fact remains it's nothing more than a computer program, with no real heart and soul. Just because a few fools in Japan and elsewhere fawn over a fake computer image still doesn't make it real, no matter how much they want it to be. It will never draw it's inspiration from the audience, it's performance will be exactly the same time and time again, and it will never need to practice in order to perfect that slight nuance that seems to elude it. The heart of it's music is nothing more than a computer program, and it will never be able to put it a lifetime of human experience into what it passes off as music.
A real performer pours their heart and soul into their music. They don't rely on computers, fakery or electronic gizmos for their talent. Their talent is the result of hard work, years of dedication, practice, and a love for the music. A real performer draws energy from the audience, and uses that energy to improve their own performance, something your cartoon character can never do.
I don't know if the OP's virtual "musician" could ever perform live. Don't know how much it would deviate from the virtual sound. But virtual bands like Dethklok and Gorrilaz do perform live.
The personalities of the virtual band are sometimes so over the top and storied that they can enhance the overall listening experience. In a way, it's not all that different than '70s rock operas like Tommy, The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars, The Wall, or Joe's Garage. (no, I'm not comparing Gorillaz or Dethklok to The Who, Pink Floyd, etc... just saying that it gives the songs a back story. I'm a fan of Metalocalypse and Gorillaz obviously but it is not on the level of Pink Floyd or The Who)
Great, first robots are taking over our manufacuring sector and now we have cartoons replacing real people on stage. lol What the [censored] is our world coming too...
Too me and many others that take our music seriously, this is nothing but utter [censored]. It has no soul or meaning. It is pure manufactured [censored]. John Lennon would be turning in his grave over this.
Too me and many others that take our music seriously, this is nothing but utter [censored]. It has no soul or meaning. It is pure manufactured [censored]. John Lennon would be turning in his grave over this.
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Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
Great, first robots are taking over our manufacuring sector and now we have cartoons replacing real people on stage. lol What the [censored] is our world coming too...
Too me and many others that take our music seriously, this is nothing but utter [censored]. It has no soul or meaning. It is pure manufactured [censored]. John Lennon would be turning in his grave over this.
So would Mozart, Bach, Beethoven....etc.
Great, first robots are taking over our manufacuring sector and now we have cartoons replacing real people on stage. lol What the [censored] is our world coming too...
Too me and many others that take our music seriously, this is nothing but utter [censored]. It has no soul or meaning. It is pure manufactured [censored]. John Lennon would be turning in his grave over this.
So would Mozart, Bach, Beethoven....etc.
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