What is "real music"

[mechanicx]

Rap is garbage and no talent, ingenuity or brains there besides the sound engineers. So is most of hip hop, garbage. And most of the pop music is low talent and manufactured. Rock bands who play electric guitars and drumsets and keyboards are musicians. I don't care about the studio editing. They can still play guitars and drums. That's just my useless opinion

.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Having said that, there is a LOT of music spanning across a lot of genres, cultures and styles that I play for my daughters; and there is a LOT of music that I intend for them to remain blissfully unaware of!

I'm the same way. My 3.5 year old gets to listen to all sorts of stuff. Her present favorite "daddy music" song is Maiden's Revelations, specifically the live version from the Flight 666 concert set. She'll ask to listen to it over and over again in the car, it's hilarious.

Then she'll ask for "Princess music"

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
My main point was, the bulk of what you find in all genres is of pretty questionable quality and promotes stupidity in one form or another. I guess that is a generalization, but I call it like I see it. You are right that glorification of the hood life is prevalent in a lot of rap/hip hop, but to me that doesn't make the entire genre a write off anymore than pop country makes country music a write off, or "Emo" makes punk a write off. Limiting yourself to one or two genres can let a lot of gems slip by, so I tend to explore everything and then pick and choose what I like.

I don't think people decide to commit crimes because they heard about it from rap or hip hop; there are many other situational influences that lead to someone crossing that line. Perhaps the glorification doesn't help, but I don't think blasting Justin Bieber noise through the ghetto will curb crime at all.


No, but middle class kids that get wrapped up in the "thug life" because they think it is cool IS a problem. These are the same kids that, 15-20 years ago, would have been listening to AC/DC, Metallica, GnR, Bon Jovi....etc.

The problem isn't the ghetto kids in the ghetto. They know what the ghetto is and what "thug life" is truly about because they live it! Some of them are even lucky enough to get out. I don't think any of them would consider the life they live something to pine after, do you?

And while I agree that the mind-numbing content in all popular music is of little substance, and may, as you've noted "promote stupidity", I think it must be pointed out that those impressionable minds are going to be influenced one way or another and the potential damaged caused by them listening to Taylor Swift's 400th relationship is a lot less than them aspiring to join a gang and "get their thug on" because they've listened to too much "fiddy".


"Gangsta rap" has been around for over 20 years, and middle class kids have been listening to it for about as long. I don't think there's an epidemic of middle class suburban kids stealing guns and robbing people for $50. Why rob when you can get the money from mom and dad? There's a big difference between emulating the clothing/bling and actually turning to crime. Crime usually happens as a result of circumstance more than anything else.

Do you think the "Pumped up Kicks" song by Foster the People contributed to school shootings? I think the song is garbage, but I don't think it flipped a switch in someone that wasn't already flipped.

 

[Autobahn88]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Rap is garbage and no talent, ingenuity or brains there besides the sound engineers. So is most of hip hop, garbage. And most of the pop music is low talent and manufactured. Rock bands who play electric guitars and drumsets and keyboards are musicians. I don't care about the studio editing. They can still play guitars and drums. That's just my useless opinion

.


Your opinion is not useless. It is your opinion and you have the right to voice it.

I too am not a fan of Rap or Hip Hop, but like any other genre, there are good artist out there that send a good message. Unfortunately, they are old school artists like Boogie Down Productions.
Every genre has its good and bad.

 

[Autobahn88]

Now to elaborate more on Overkill's statement. Alot of Raps lyrics do promote violence twards others and women. Here is a classic case of lyrics by 2pac, who many think he is such a great artist.

Warning, These lyrics are not for everyone so if you are easily offended do not read.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/2pac/hitemup.html

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Having said that, there is a LOT of music spanning across a lot of genres, cultures and styles that I play for my daughters; and there is a LOT of music that I intend for them to remain blissfully unaware of!

I'm the same way. My 3.5 year old gets to listen to all sorts of stuff. Her present favorite "daddy music" song is Maiden's Revelations, specifically the live version from the Flight 666 concert set. She'll ask to listen to it over and over again in the car, it's hilarious.

Then she'll ask for "Princess music"

My 8 years old likes to rock out with me when we are cruising and limp bizkit is in the player. He also likes soundgarden and old pearl jam.
Training him well

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
Warning, These lyrics are not for everyone so if you are easily offended do not read.


Yikes. That was bad. I do understand, though, that you're not going to get any message of any sort through to the disenfranchised by using the Queen's English.

There was a doofus who came to speak at my high school about the usual things: stay in school, getcha 8 hours of sleep, don't do drugs, etc. He wore biker attire and dropped a few "f" bombs so we'd relate. It ended up posturing him as a doofus, but I get the challenge: Trying to get something positive to people who are actively opposed to receiving a message.

I am entirely unfamiliar with 2-Pac's music; only being aware of the destructive and divisive lyrics and music linked above. I have been told, though, that his overall shtick was one of positivity. I was blown away to find out pretty much the same thing about Insane Clown Posse: As riddled as their music is with cussing and horrific, violent themes at times, there are also moments of surprising quality. Apparently they deliberately "package" their "brand" in this way specifically to reach those uninclined to listen to more cultured music.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Having said that, there is a LOT of music spanning across a lot of genres, cultures and styles that I play for my daughters; and there is a LOT of music that I intend for them to remain blissfully unaware of!

I'm the same way. My 3.5 year old gets to listen to all sorts of stuff. Her present favorite "daddy music" song is Maiden's Revelations, specifically the live version from the Flight 666 concert set. She'll ask to listen to it over and over again in the car, it's hilarious.

Then she'll ask for "Princess music"

My 8 years old likes to rock out with me when we are cruising and limp bizkit is in the player. He also likes soundgarden and old pearl jam.
Training him well


It's not just me and my 8 year old then

He likes Dragonforce. I'm indifferent to them myself but he likes them.

He can drum Fury of the Storm on Guitar Hero drums on expert and get a pretty good score. Good workout. So far it hasn't translated to real drums that well but he can drum some basic rhythms.

Still haven't gotten him into '80s hardcore, but I've not exposed him to some of the greats because of language and subject matter.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Having said that, there is a LOT of music spanning across a lot of genres, cultures and styles that I play for my daughters; and there is a LOT of music that I intend for them to remain blissfully unaware of!

I'm the same way. My 3.5 year old gets to listen to all sorts of stuff. Her present favorite "daddy music" song is Maiden's Revelations, specifically the live version from the Flight 666 concert set. She'll ask to listen to it over and over again in the car, it's hilarious.

Then she'll ask for "Princess music"

My 8 years old likes to rock out with me when we are cruising and limp bizkit is in the player. He also likes soundgarden and old pearl jam.
Training him well


It's not just me and my 8 year old then

He likes Dragonforce. I'm indifferent to them myself but he likes them.

He can drum Fury of the Storm on Guitar Hero drums on expert and get a pretty good score. Good workout. So far it hasn't translated to real drums that well but he can drum some basic rhythms.

Still haven't gotten him into '80s hardcore, but I've not exposed him to some of the greats because of language and subject matter.



I got that swearing stuff figured out. My buddy has some recording software. He downloads the song then he can delete the offending word but the music is unaffected,and is also able to add a word. All pretty seamless actually.
So I've got the kid friendly playlist that the boy chooses from. It's my way of still being able to listen to what I want but still able to be a somewhat responsible parent.
And teletoon retro is his favorite channel. He was shocked to hear me sing the inspector gadget song.

 

[mechanicx]

Hip hop is so pathetic. I don't have much exposure to it by choice. A few times I had to listen to it because others had it on the radio. One time the radio station kept repeating the same nonsense phrase, "Are you old school?" "old school, old school, old school" over and over lol.

Then they keep playing the same bird brain hit songs over and over again, "I'm in love with a stripper.." Maybe I should listen to it more for the comedy of it

.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

Do you think the "Pumped up Kicks" song by Foster the People contributed to school shootings? I think the song is garbage, but I don't think it flipped a switch in someone that wasn't already flipped.


Contributed? No, but I think the song is an abomination. It's like freakin' serial killer carnie music, I absolutely HATE that song!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

"Gangsta rap" has been around for over 20 years, and middle class kids have been listening to it for about as long. I don't think there's an epidemic of middle class suburban kids stealing guns and robbing people for $50. Why rob when you can get the money from mom and dad? There's a big difference between emulating the clothing/bling and actually turning to crime. Crime usually happens as a result of circumstance more than anything else.


I remember the changeover quite well. I'm 32. There was no gangsta rap when I was a kid, however, there was when my sisters were and I remember the "thug life" starting to be idolized around that time period. I remember kids in their classes getting caught up in gangs and drugs, so yes, I do think that it influences middle class kids, because I saw it happen.

The worst thing that happened to those of us listening to Booze-talica and GnR was that we'd sneak into our parents liquor cabinet, think we were rock stars and then end up with a wicked hang-over. None of the music I grew up around ever advocated the termination of another's life or the denigration of women.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Having said that, there is a LOT of music spanning across a lot of genres, cultures and styles that I play for my daughters; and there is a LOT of music that I intend for them to remain blissfully unaware of!

I'm the same way. My 3.5 year old gets to listen to all sorts of stuff. Her present favorite "daddy music" song is Maiden's Revelations, specifically the live version from the Flight 666 concert set. She'll ask to listen to it over and over again in the car, it's hilarious.

Then she'll ask for "Princess music"

My kids are very familiar with FFDP, Metallica, Rammstein (though they don't know German, so that's "safe"), Stan Rogers, Gowan, the works of Andrew Lloyd Webber, Amy Lee (who I think is an angel), Lindsey Stirling, Mozart, Beethoven, Tim McGraw, Martina McBride and thanks to my wife, some mainstream stuff, LOL!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
...No, but middle class kids that get wrapped up in the "thug life" because they think it is cool IS a problem. These are the same kids that, 15-20 years ago, would have been listening to AC/DC, Metallica, GnR, Bon Jovi....etc.

Hey I like GnR as much as the next guy (for my money, Appetite for Destruction is one of the greatest albums of the last 30 years) but it's nothing but sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll. Rocket Queen, Nightrain, Anything Goes, etc. Not exactly wholesome subjects for teens! Of which I was one when it came out

Your objections probably sound similar to what the old fuddy duddies said about Elvis and his gyrating hips back in the day

jeff


No different than Elvis, the Beetles, The Moody Blues....etc. sex, drugs and alcohol have always been a part of Rock music.

There's a big difference however between those things and the devaluation of human life, the dispatching of others with firearms, the glamorization of money and the objectification of women, all of which are part of the thug/gansta rap "movement".

One is far more "severe" than the other. When Axel Rose was po'd at James Hetfield for stealing the show in Montreal (which resulted in a riot, but anyway) he didn't gather his cronies and give 'ol James a drive-by. But that's exactly how Tupac, "Biggy Smalls" and other rap stars have been "dispatched".

There's a video on Youtube of Danzig getting knocked-the-f-out for running his mouth. Had he been a rapper, he'd probably have been shot. THAT is the difference!

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
...No, but middle class kids that get wrapped up in the "thug life" because they think it is cool IS a problem. These are the same kids that, 15-20 years ago, would have been listening to AC/DC, Metallica, GnR, Bon Jovi....etc.

Hey I like GnR as much as the next guy (for my money, Appetite for Destruction is one of the greatest albums of the last 30 years) but it's nothing but sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll. Rocket Queen, Nightrain, Anything Goes, etc. Not exactly wholesome subjects for teens! Of which I was one when it came out

Your objections probably sound similar to what the old fuddy duddies said about Elvis and his gyrating hips back in the day

jeff


No different than Elvis, the Beetles, The Moody Blues....etc. sex, drugs and alcohol have always been a part of Rock music.
...


When I was about 13, old enough to stay up late but too young to be out at any decent parties, a band performed on Saturday Night Live. I thought I knew all about rock. Bad Company, Styx, Queen, Van Halen, ZZ Top, Foreigner, Boston, etc... Then this crazy band comes on SNL and it's got more rawness. More power. ROCK!! Second song wasn't as good. Third song starts incredible and is cut off by the network. I was hooked. I had to go to the record store (remember those?) and squirrel up my courage to asked the baked out pimple faced teen at the counter if he knew who that band was.
"Oh yeah....that was Fear man. They're pretty good..."

It was controversial. It was dangerous. It was obscene. just like Alice Cooper had been 10 years before. Just like Dylan, the Rolling Stones, the Doors, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, and Jerry Lee Lewis had been before.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
...No, but middle class kids that get wrapped up in the "thug life" because they think it is cool IS a problem. These are the same kids that, 15-20 years ago, would have been listening to AC/DC, Metallica, GnR, Bon Jovi....etc.

Hey I like GnR as much as the next guy (for my money, Appetite for Destruction is one of the greatest albums of the last 30 years) but it's nothing but sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll. Rocket Queen, Nightrain, Anything Goes, etc. Not exactly wholesome subjects for teens! Of which I was one when it came out

Your objections probably sound similar to what the old fuddy duddies said about Elvis and his gyrating hips back in the day

jeff


No different than Elvis, the Beetles, The Moody Blues....etc. sex, drugs and alcohol have always been a part of Rock music.
...


When I was about 13, old enough to stay up late but too young to be out at any decent parties, a band performed on Saturday Night Live. I thought I knew all about rock. Bad Company, Styx, Queen, Van Halen, ZZ Top, Foreigner, Boston, etc... Then this crazy band comes on SNL and it's got more rawness. More power. ROCK!! Second song wasn't as good. Third song starts incredible and is cut off by the network. I was hooked. I had to go to the record store (remember those?) and squirrel up my courage to asked the baked out pimple faced teen at the counter if he knew who that band was.
"Oh yeah....that was Fear man. They're pretty good..."

It was controversial. It was dangerous. It was obscene. just like Alice Cooper had been 10 years before. Just like Dylan, the Rolling Stones, the Doors, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, and Jerry Lee Lewis had been before.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


"the lights go down, the stage is set, the man in the wing breaks out in sweat. Backstage joker spiked his coke while the dressing room was full of smoke. Crowd is full, getting high! He's afraid he's gonna die, he's the apple of their eye! He struts, he strolls, his love is... Rock 'n Roll, he's the Veteran Cosmic Rocker".

1981 - The Moody Blues

Yes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Rock has always been "controversial", that's what defined the genre.

 

[Nick R]

Also, something just occured to me. I think about 2 of you actually watched it. How do I know? Because there are real people there playing the drums and guitar, and keyboard Hmmm, I think THEY are real, don't you?

 

[Spazdog]

for some reason it reminded me of the "Diva's" performance in The Fifth Element

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Also, something just occured to me. I think about 2 of you actually watched it. How do I know? Because there are real people there playing the drums and guitar, and keyboard Hmmm, I think THEY are real, don't you?


Watched what? And you know 2 people watched it because it has real people in it? I am not connecting the dots; but I can tell you that if whatever in the world you're talking about has a keyboard in it (you used he word "keyboard" and not "piano" so I am presuming you're talking about someone playing an electronic synthesizer) then he was triggering samples OR making synthetic sounds that do not even exist in real life. Is that real?

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

Do you think the "Pumped up Kicks" song by Foster the People contributed to school shootings? I think the song is garbage, but I don't think it flipped a switch in someone that wasn't already flipped.


Contributed? No, but I think the song is an abomination. It's like freakin' serial killer carnie music, I absolutely HATE that song!


Agree on that.

It is an example of how pop/rock can be just as perverse, violent, and sickening as any rap.