Dparm said the car is tracked - I wouldnt use a GF-4 oil in a tracked engine.
What causes TBN depletion?
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Well, does track time/autocross deplete TBN? Or does that just annihilate oil in general?
Well most "race" oils have lower TBNs. I wonder if that's because they know the oils get changed frequently or because their chemistry promotes slower TBN loss.
It's mostly because of the shorter intervals. There are many reasons for short OCIs in a race engine, such that the oil never needs a high TBN.
Of course, there's a range of requirements, which is why there is a range of "race" oils with a range of TBNs, some of which are clearly in street oil territory (e.g. Motul 300V).
Of course, there's a range of requirements, which is why there is a range of "race" oils with a range of TBNs, some of which are clearly in street oil territory (e.g. Motul 300V).
I don't know what type of PCMO you refer to, but I like Mobil Clean 5000 as it starts with a TBN of about 9, which is fairly high for a PCMO non-syn. Plus it has the CF light duty diesel rating that usually only syn PCMO's have. It is obviously intended to go 6 months/5000 miles, but probably capable of much further in less-than-severe service. Plus the price is good. My other favorite PCMO non-syn oils are Havoline and Motorcraft, based on performance per dollar or value.
Use the recomended oil at the recomended interval for the service you use the vehicle for. TBN is simply a measure of buffering capability against acid. A more stable buffer may indeed have a lower TBN and maintain a moderate TBN throughout a long OCI while a less stable buffer would react and deplete on a much steeper slope.
I used to be obsessed with this stuff reading every white paper analyzing every UOA doing UOA's and wasting alot of time and effort I could have put towards getting another echelon higher in my personal academic education.
But now I simply run the Toyota Synthetic 0w20 to 10k miles or 1 year WCF in my two Toyota SUV's and I don't sweat it. I post on BITOG while I load up material for classes that matter to my life and leave the oil to the engineers, tribologist and designers to assign.
I used to be obsessed with this stuff reading every white paper analyzing every UOA doing UOA's and wasting alot of time and effort I could have put towards getting another echelon higher in my personal academic education.
But now I simply run the Toyota Synthetic 0w20 to 10k miles or 1 year WCF in my two Toyota SUV's and I don't sweat it. I post on BITOG while I load up material for classes that matter to my life and leave the oil to the engineers, tribologist and designers to assign.
I have had a dilemma since I started lurking at BITOG. I have been driving a '73 Cadillac for the last 15 years because it serves my purposes due to my line of work AND I love the car. The big V-8 sound and that torquey "electric motor pull" only a diesel can deliver except in an engine you feed with gas.
TBN has recently (thanks to BITOG) come to my attention but so has ZDDP. I was running Mobil 1 15-50 for over 10 years until I moved to a pretty cold climate (about 0-10 degrees) in the winter.
It takes about 20 minutes at a fast idle just to get the coolant temp up to 120 degrees and then I only drive for maybe 10 miles so I worry about moisture burn off and fuel burn off.
I have now decided that diesel oils may be my best bet due to the fact that they do have a high TBN and handle contamination better than regular oil so I am trying Rotella T-6 synthetic whereas I was running Valvoline ZR1 20-50 and 10-30. Yes, I know this is the wrong section for diesel oil but we ARE discussing TBN and there are many who run diesel oil in their cars.
I guess I'll see how the Rotella works out. Fuel dilution and water dilution are my biggest worries right now. I DO take long drives once in a while ( a few times a year) but not very often. I chose a diesel oil because of the high TBN and, as important, the higher ZDDP numbers.
I may end up going boutique when this is all said and done but the price precludes changing the oil very often. I guess VOA's will have to be done. I've never done one before.
TBN has recently (thanks to BITOG) come to my attention but so has ZDDP. I was running Mobil 1 15-50 for over 10 years until I moved to a pretty cold climate (about 0-10 degrees) in the winter.
It takes about 20 minutes at a fast idle just to get the coolant temp up to 120 degrees and then I only drive for maybe 10 miles so I worry about moisture burn off and fuel burn off.
I have now decided that diesel oils may be my best bet due to the fact that they do have a high TBN and handle contamination better than regular oil so I am trying Rotella T-6 synthetic whereas I was running Valvoline ZR1 20-50 and 10-30. Yes, I know this is the wrong section for diesel oil but we ARE discussing TBN and there are many who run diesel oil in their cars.
I guess I'll see how the Rotella works out. Fuel dilution and water dilution are my biggest worries right now. I DO take long drives once in a while ( a few times a year) but not very often. I chose a diesel oil because of the high TBN and, as important, the higher ZDDP numbers.
I may end up going boutique when this is all said and done but the price precludes changing the oil very often. I guess VOA's will have to be done. I've never done one before.
I'd agree that the T6 is worth trying in the Caddy. As far as warmup, are you sure the thermostat is working and not stuck open? It shouldn't take that long to warm up, even at low idle.
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
I'd agree that the T6 is worth trying in the Caddy. As far as warmup, are you sure the thermostat is working and not stuck open? It shouldn't take that long to warm up, even at low idle.
Yes, the thermostat is working but those engines are one BIG hunk of metal AND I blocked off the heat crossover in the intake manifold about 2 years ago. I've been too busy or too lazy to pull the manifold and put in a new gasket that doesn't block it off.
I'll see how it does this winter and I may just have to pull the manifold and fix it. It runs so much better in the summer with that crossover blocked BUT I guess I have to come to grips with the facts. Winter is a LOT longer than summer.
I put an aluminum intake on it and thought the aluminum would transfer the heat just fine but it doesn't seem to be working out that way when it's 10 degrees or less out. There IS a chance that it WAS the thermostat last winter because I was having problems with it running a little on the warm side and then one day it just cooled right down while I just happened to be watching the temp gauge.
I'll see what it does when it gets real cold this winter and proceed from there.
I'd agree that the T6 is worth trying in the Caddy. As far as warmup, are you sure the thermostat is working and not stuck open? It shouldn't take that long to warm up, even at low idle.
Yes, the thermostat is working but those engines are one BIG hunk of metal AND I blocked off the heat crossover in the intake manifold about 2 years ago. I've been too busy or too lazy to pull the manifold and put in a new gasket that doesn't block it off.
I'll see how it does this winter and I may just have to pull the manifold and fix it. It runs so much better in the summer with that crossover blocked BUT I guess I have to come to grips with the facts. Winter is a LOT longer than summer.
I put an aluminum intake on it and thought the aluminum would transfer the heat just fine but it doesn't seem to be working out that way when it's 10 degrees or less out. There IS a chance that it WAS the thermostat last winter because I was having problems with it running a little on the warm side and then one day it just cooled right down while I just happened to be watching the temp gauge.
I'll see what it does when it gets real cold this winter and proceed from there.
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