What are the most overrated, overpriced tires?

[nthach]

I never had luck with Bridgestone.

And while I am a Michelin guy, the Defenders disappointed me. I'm giving the T+H version a chance on a friend's car. I had luck with the X Radial DT(the Costco/BJ's/Sam's version of the Harmony/Destiny), Primacy MXV4, Pilot Sport A/S and Exalto A/S. Pirelli was a let down too for treadlife but they handle well.

 

[GaryMX5]

Yokohama OEM's. Every set I've had on a new car wore out very quickly. The set on my Mazda6 didn't make it to 25K miles. The ones on my CX5 are close to the wear indicators at 24K. The replacement costs for either of these (if you're silly enough to want to replace them with the same thing) is outrageous.

 

[grampi]

Michelins

 

[sloinker]

Goodyears +2

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Michelin basically owns the high-end high performance tire space. If you look at the best tires for the best performing cars, you'll see a few Pirellis and a Bridgestone or Dunlop or two, and everything else will be Michelin. The Pilot Sport 4 and 4S are so utterly dominant that you wonder why anyone else even tries. Better combination of dry grip, wet grip, feel, NVH, longevity, and quality than... really any summer tire ever made.

It's their mass-market stuff that's less likely to be best-in-class. Though to be completely honest, I don't see the point in those segments at all. Like, I get that people value cost, NVH, and longevity over everything else, but.... Are we buying furniture here, or tires? But maybe that's another story.

So yeah, I can see how someone who's trying to be thrifty might think Michelins are overrated or overpriced. But if you want a tire that does what a tire is supposed to do, they're a bargain compared to everything else.


That's cool, but if I tried to put Pilot Sports on my car I'd literally die the first time it snowed.

Some (as in, the vast majority) have priorities beyond MAX PERFORMANCE. If you've got enough money to constantly replace your fast wearing summer tires and live in a place where they won't kill you, more power to you. Most of us don't.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Les Schwab is for people who have never learned how to look up name-brand tire prices on the internet and compare, or their grandchildren or kids won't do it for them. That demographic is dying out.

As if Les Schwab has never sold a set of tires to anyone under 30. Because as we all know, young people NEVER overpay for anything. They're just too smart.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
That's cool, but if I tried to put Pilot Sports on my car I'd literally die the first time it snowed.

Some (as in, the vast majority) have priorities beyond MAX PERFORMANCE. If you've got enough money to constantly replace your fast wearing summer tires and live in a place where they won't kill you, more power to you. Most of us don't.

Few questions, as we seem to have deviated from specific brands to tire types more generally:

1. Don't you keep a separate set of cheapo wheels with dedicated winter tires? I do here in PA, and I'd have thought that'd be even more advantageous in SD. I know some people's living situations don't permit keeping a whole other set around, but I don't get the impression that that's the norm for people who participate in these discussions. Could be wrong.

2. Have you actually tried to calculate per-mile costs on different tires and then compare those costs to your car's overall per-mile costs? I have, and I usually find that even the difference between best-in-class and total crap is almost negligible. And when one tire gives you 30,000 completely usable miles, and the other one "lasts longer" but starts at a lower traction level and goes way downhill by that mileage, the value proposition doesn't always work out the way one might think by just looking at dollars and miles.

3. Your sig says you drive a Mazda3, not a Corolla or something else cheaper and duller, so I'm guessing you're someone who understands and respects the value of good dynamics in a car completely apart from "performance". I'm sure you know traction isn't only for sports cars, and that there's a lot more to a high-end tire than just straight-up grip. Yet I notice you seem to be blowing off tires with those traits as being only for the kind of car you don't have. Why is that?

 

[krzyss]

Driving high performance tires in snow is user error, not manufacturer.

KrzyÅ›

PS
As most overpriced category I already wrote about OEM. Their prices are impressive, regardless who manufacturer is. As a company that makes most overpriced tires I would vote for winter Nokian tires.
Their summer and all seasons are priced reasonably but winter tires are even more expensive than Michelin, which are not cheap. Maybe they used to be the best but it seems that super premium pricing nowadays is not warranted by their performance compared to cheaper alternatives from premium brands.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Goodyear


I've only had one set of Continentals and they're the Extreme Contact Sports on one of my cars right now. I think they're good tires for the price.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
That's cool, but if I tried to put Pilot Sports on my car I'd literally die the first time it snowed.

Some (as in, the vast majority) have priorities beyond MAX PERFORMANCE. If you've got enough money to constantly replace your fast wearing summer tires and live in a place where they won't kill you, more power to you. Most of us don't.

Few questions, as we seem to have deviated from specific brands to tire types more generally:

1. Don't you keep a separate set of cheapo wheels with dedicated winter tires? I do here in PA, and I'd have thought that'd be even more advantageous in SD. I know some people's living situations don't permit keeping a whole other set around, but I don't get the impression that that's the norm for people who participate in these discussions. Could be wrong.

2. Have you actually tried to calculate per-mile costs on different tires and then compare those costs to your car's overall per-mile costs? I have, and I usually find that even the difference between best-in-class and total crap is almost negligible. And when one tire gives you 30,000 completely usable miles, and the other one "lasts longer" but starts at a lower traction level and goes way downhill by that mileage, the value proposition doesn't always work out the way one might think by just looking at dollars and miles.

3. Your sig says you drive a Mazda3, not a Corolla or something else cheaper and duller, so I'm guessing you're someone who understands and respects the value of good dynamics in a car completely apart from "performance". I'm sure you know traction isn't only for sports cars, and that there's a lot more to a high-end tire than just straight-up grip. Yet I notice you seem to be blowing off tires with those traits as being only for the kind of car you don't have. Why is that?


1. I don't have a set of winter wheels for this particular car, no, and as of now (I've only had it for a few months) I just have the snow tires, but I am planning on swapping them out when the weather clears up. The problem is what happens if I get caught out by an early or late storm before I have the snow tires on for the year. If I have summer hi-po tires, I could quite literally be killed. With a performance all-season, I may have a few white knuckle moments, but I'd be fine.

2 and 3. The issue is that there are lots of tires that are entirely adequate for the majority of drivers on public roads that are much, much cheaper, and often much longer lasting. Racing is a different application, of course, but not one applicable to the majority of drivers. The fact is, it doesn't matter if the expensive tires will let me take the corner at 65 if the speed limit is only 45. On a public road, with a car that isn't particularly fast anyway, I don't really gain much from the expensive tires, especially when I could only run them for 3-4 months anyway,

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
1. I don't have a set of winter wheels for this particular car, no, and as of now (I've only had it for a few months) I just have the snow tires, but I am planning on swapping them out when the weather clears up. The problem is what happens if I get caught out by an early or late storm before I have the snow tires on for the year. If I have summer hi-po tires, I could quite literally be killed. With a performance all-season, I may have a few white knuckle moments, but I'd be fine.

Right. So I guess the next question is why you apparently thought I was insinuating that you personally should get high-performance summer tires. But I guess that's irrelevant for anyone else.

Performance all-seasons are at the point now where they'd cover this kind of usage perfectly. The Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 has been a favorite for years; the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ and Bridgestone Potenza RE980AS are the other top-tier options. Any of them will beat the pants off of any budget all-season tire. With normal-person driving they'll outlast their summer-only counterparts by like 50% or more, and they'll work better at the wear bars than many of the cheaper options will when brand new.

The point I was making was about performance-oriented tires generally, not track-oriented summer-only tires.


Originally Posted by littlehulkster
The fact is, it doesn't matter if the expensive tires will let me take the corner at 65 if the speed limit is only 45. On a public road, with a car that isn't particularly fast anyway, I don't really gain much from the expensive tires, especially when I could only run them for 3-4 months anyway,

There are plenty of reasons for a performance tire that have zero to do with driving faster than traffic. E.g.:

1. Emergency situations. Should be obvious that there's no such thing as too much grip during a panic stop or sudden swerve.

2. The bigger your tire's performance reserves, the less likely it is that you'll end up short on grip as the tire wears. It's not uncommon for more mainstream tires to get sketchy under half tread depth, especially in the rain. Meanwhile, my friends and I have worn Pilot Sports of various kinds past the wear bars and still been okay on wet roads.

3. Performance-oriented tires are very often built better, with better uniformity and strength.

4. Good performance tires just feel better to drive on in all circumstances, even nowhere near the limit of grip. They communicate better, are more directionally stable, and respond to control inputs more intuitively and authoritatively. That gives you more confidence at all speeds. The effect is similar to what you get from a BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche vs. an economy car -- or from a Mazda3 vs. a Corolla, incidentally. You don't have to drive fast at all to feel like you're on surer footing, and that's a great feeling.

 

[littlehulkster]

Well, the Pilot sport 4 and 4s you mentioned earlier are both high performance summer tires, something entirely unsuitable for my climate and type of driving.

When it comes to performance all-seasons, that is exactly what I plan to get, although I'm probably going for something more along the lines of the Sumitomo A/S P02, which is plenty good enough for my needs, while also being quite cheap.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Well, the Pilot sport 4 and 4s you mentioned earlier are both high performance summer tires, something entirely unsuitable for my climate and type of driving.

Those were examples against the notion that Michelin tires are categorically overrated or overpriced. For applications for which those tires are appropriate, they're almost the only models worth considering, including in terms of bang-for-the-buck. That's kind of the opposite of overrated/overpriced.

That's not the same thing as saying everyone should buy them. If your application isn't in that category, then obviously they're not for you. That doesn't make them overrated or overpriced; it makes them the wrong choice.

 

[Vuflanovsky]

For some, it might come down to the definitions of "categorically", "overpriced", and "overrated"....if Michelin tires cost 25-30% more on average then IMO they're overpriced. If there are competing models that provide 85% plus of the performance envelope while providing similar or better wear and ride characteristics for 25% less then they're overrated. The "wrong choice" can be as subjective as "overrated and overpriced" even within vehicle categories if you'd actually prefer the Pirelli, Bridgestone or Conti equivalent and what they offer versus the Michelin in an otherwise high performance vehicle.

Within reason, your preference in an application can mean as much as "what's right" in terms of performance envelope. If I like a softer riding max performance category tire that de-emphasizes performance to a degree and makes my vehicle livable then that's what's right and not the ultimate nth degree of performance. If you apply the value equation based on that idea you're going to get a different result than only and always inputting the highest performance tire or the notion that because I'm buying Michelin I'm buying the only real option. That may be both subjective and objective depending on a lot of things.

 

[vwGLI]

This award must go to Michelin Premier LTX. Great tires in terms of comfort level and traction. But the compound is way too soft that leads to unacceptable low treadlife. I put 7000 miles on them and they're halfway down to the wear bar. Just checkout the reviews on Tirerack. It has excellent review when it was just released, but tanked when people realize how short they last. I still like them because I drive so little and Michelin seems stand behind their 60K miles warranty very well!

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Premier+LTX

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Big-wheel no-profile tires on basic economy cars

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Big-wheel no-profile tires on basic economy cars

Amen!

 

[dogememe]

Michelin

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
That's cool, but if I tried to put Pilot Sports on my car I'd literally die the first time it snowed.

Some (as in, the vast majority) have priorities beyond MAX PERFORMANCE. If you've got enough money to constantly replace your fast wearing summer tires and live in a place where they won't kill you, more power to you. Most of us don't.

Few questions, as we seem to have deviated from specific brands to tire types more generally:

1. Don't you keep a separate set of cheapo wheels with dedicated winter tires? I do here in PA, and I'd have thought that'd be even more advantageous in SD. I know some people's living situations don't permit keeping a whole other set around, but I don't get the impression that that's the norm for people who participate in these discussions. Could be wrong.

2. Have you actually tried to calculate per-mile costs on different tires and then compare those costs to your car's overall per-mile costs? I have, and I usually find that even the difference between best-in-class and total crap is almost negligible. And when one tire gives you 30,000 completely usable miles, and the other one "lasts longer" but starts at a lower traction level and goes way downhill by that mileage, the value proposition doesn't always work out the way one might think by just looking at dollars and miles.

3. Your sig says you drive a Mazda3, not a Corolla or something else cheaper and duller, so I'm guessing you're someone who understands and respects the value of good dynamics in a car completely apart from "performance". I'm sure you know traction isn't only for sports cars, and that there's a lot more to a high-end tire than just straight-up grip. Yet I notice you seem to be blowing off tires with those traits as being only for the kind of car you don't have. Why is that?


1. I don't have a set of winter wheels for this particular car, no, and as of now (I've only had it for a few months) I just have the snow tires, but I am planning on swapping them out when the weather clears up. The problem is what happens if I get caught out by an early or late storm before I have the snow tires on for the year. If I have summer hi-po tires, I could quite literally be killed. With a performance all-season, I may have a few white knuckle moments, but I'd be fine.

2 and 3. The issue is that there are lots of tires that are entirely adequate for the majority of drivers on public roads that are much, much cheaper, and often much longer lasting. Racing is a different application, of course, but not one applicable to the majority of drivers. The fact is, it doesn't matter if the expensive tires will let me take the corner at 65 if the speed limit is only 45. On a public road, with a car that isn't particularly fast anyway, I don't really gain much from the expensive tires, especially when I could only run them for 3-4 months anyway,


Just do what i do then. Run three sets of tires. Each set sees about 4 months/year. Summer, winter and intermediate. The Nokian WRG3 makes a great intermediate tire. I also have a forth set of tires that are track only.

 

[HowAboutThis]

Any tire you pay full price for and don't get a buy 3 get one free or $150 back or something similar. I love Michelin, but have had Firestone 80k milers that did fine for 70k and then I traded car in they still had life left, Goodyear TripleTred replaced after 90k miles still had 4/32nds, Toyo that lasted all 65k miles fine, and many different Michelin sets that were great. I calculate $/mile with rebates and go with something good, no bottom of the line brands. Just my $0.02.