What are some things that can make Oil "Black?"

[highmilegeguy]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: highmilegeguy

Its Dirty oil and it should be changed with the seasons, at least. You're not pushing "dark" oil through your bearings, you're pushing dirt filled oil through them. You show me where its good to run dirt through the bearings and valves if you want to get [censored] with me.


Do you have proof?

Every UOA that I've send in had black oil, however the results were good-no high levels of contaminants, wear metals always normal. And I have this device called an oil filter that filters out contaminants that might damage those bearings and valves.


+1 oil filters clean out this dirt, down to about 20 microns, which, in case you don't know, is extremely small.
You assume the filter is working. If it gets filled up, it simply bypasses the unfiltered oil. Then your filter is doing zip.
Amazing the illogical arguments guys make to justify not changing the oil.

 

[highmilegeguy]

Lose the debate and resort to hyerbole.

My proposal is within reasonableness for general maintenance.

Lets use the same hyperbole argument for your idea.

Well, lets never change the oil since dark oil is not harmful. I mean, why change it then?

 

[cchase]

It's really got my brain balled up trying to figure out if you have a Jaguar or a Chevy Blazer, OilBlazer93.

Under the assumption you have gotten rid of the Jaguar and replaced it with a Blazer, I would suspect the dark oil is probably just because it's a 17 year old vehicle with likely a questionable past.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: highmilegeguy

Well, lets never change the oil since dark oil is not harmful. I mean, why change it then?

I don't advertize never changing oil. I go by things like used oil analysis and manufacturer's recommendation to determine what is a safe OCI, without unnecessary premature dumping of good oil.

 

[OilBlazer93]

Originally Posted By: cchase
It's really got my brain balled up trying to figure out if you have a Jaguar or a Chevy Blazer, OilBlazer93.

Under the assumption you have gotten rid of the Jaguar and replaced it with a Blazer, I would suspect the dark oil is probably just because it's a 17 year old vehicle with likely a questionable past.

Vehicles, aside.. Can Dark Oil "Just Happen?" Im rather intrigued by what "Fuel Dilution" is!

I basically ask Universal questions. I -Do- have more than one car.

And im not an Expert.. THATS WHY IM HERE!!!

And, yes, i would forget to put Gas in -A Car.-

Im boggled trying to figure out if that guy with the Stingray -really had "No Oil" in his car. Ive really never heard of that. Because, how could no -Oil- be in a car..

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: cchase
It's really got my brain balled up trying to figure out if you have a Jaguar or a Chevy Blazer, OilBlazer93.

Under the assumption you have gotten rid of the Jaguar and replaced it with a Blazer, I would suspect the dark oil is probably just because it's a 17 year old vehicle with likely a questionable past.

Vehicles, aside.. Can Dark Oil "Just Happen?" Im rather intrigued by what "Fuel Dilution" is!

I basically ask Universal questions. I -Do- have more than one car.

And im not an Expert.. THATS WHY IM HERE!!!

And, yes, i would forget to put Gas in -A Car.-

Im boggled trying to figure out if that guy with the Stingray -really had "No Oil" in his car. Ive really never heard of that. Because, how could no -Oil- be in a car..


Just do what makes you sleep well at night. If you feel better extending your OCI for $$ or environmental reasons, do it! If you feel better having cleaner oil, do it! At least you're changing your own oil

 

[OilBlazer93]

Originally Posted By: highmilegeguy
Lose the debate and resort to hyerbole.

My proposal is within reasonableness for general maintenance.

Lets use the same hyperbole argument for your idea.

Well, lets never change the oil since dark oil is not harmful. I mean, why change it then?


Dude....

Look. They -SAY- "Dark Oil" does not really mean anything. i have also heard it said that if Oil "Stays Clean," That its not doing its Job... Seems valid. i HAVE had Oil stay clean for some time, but that means the Engine wasnt working?? See, im flipping it around for you.

Yes, Filters DO keep Oil clean. IF they become Dirty. one really does not know. Either way, im -sure- Dirt and Particles, and perhaps even sludgy nits? Can be -SUSPENDED- in Oil Film. But Amber Brown is "Normal." Oil thats "Black" ... !!! Its like "WHAT HAPPENED!"

Now, in My case, my Car (Truck, sorry) Ran out of Gas. One poster things i have a Jaguar. Fine. Well, then, my point.. If you had a Jaguar OR a Blazer (I dont have a Jaguar) AND the oil turned BLACK, and you SEEM to know WHEN, such as "After you ran out of Gas..." is that "No Relation" it just got Dirty, OR is it because of all the [censored] Running the engine did while Sputtering? (Fuel Injected, all the way.)

This is why i dont mess with the Pantera. I DONT want to mess it up.. And ive noticed: The Stingrays on here.. NOBODY weants to keep them STOCK! Shame.

highmileageguy, there are a LOT of Smart people on this board. SOME even have Ferraris and Stuff! .. i trust them. Please, please.. Be Nice to them!

If you are saying that if the Oil turned Black that the Filter is clogged, that makes some sense. is that what you are saying?

 

[OilBlazer93]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: cchase
It's really got my brain balled up trying to figure out if you have a Jaguar or a Chevy Blazer, OilBlazer93.

Under the assumption you have gotten rid of the Jaguar and replaced it with a Blazer, I would suspect the dark oil is probably just because it's a 17 year old vehicle with likely a questionable past.

Vehicles, aside.. Can Dark Oil "Just Happen?" Im rather intrigued by what "Fuel Dilution" is!

I basically ask Universal questions. I -Do- have more than one car.

And im not an Expert.. THATS WHY IM HERE!!!

And, yes, i would forget to put Gas in -A Car.-

Im boggled trying to figure out if that guy with the Stingray -really had "No Oil" in his car. Ive really never heard of that. Because, how could no -Oil- be in a car..


Just do what makes you sleep well at night. If you feel better extending your OCI for $$ or environmental reasons, do it! If you feel better having cleaner oil, do it! At least you're changing your own oil


Thanks... I just think i need to call "Shenanigans" on my Engine. Because the Oil is Black now.. and as before, it wasnt.

Most people think im OK with the Oil in there. I do too. Im just trying to figure it out.

Time to do some reading.. and we have some posters "Fighting" on here? I wish they'd stop.

They should both buy cars and see who can get the oil dirty First. One NEVER changes the filter, and one changed it every day. One works for ZMax or Slick 50............

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Thanks... I just think i need to call "Shenanigans" on my Engine. Because the Oil is Black now.. and as before, it wasnt.

Most people think im OK with the Oil in there. I do too. Im just trying to figure it out.

Time to do some reading.. and we have some posters "Fighting" on here? I wish they'd stop.

They should both buy cars and see who can get the oil dirty First. One NEVER changes the filter, and one changed it every day. One works for ZMax or Slick 50............

Is it thick when it comes out? If a used 5w30 comes out real thick even though it's warmed up, it's probably carrying some bad stuff and has been in there too long.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
and we have some posters "Fighting" on here?

Nobody's fighting. We're just exchanging opinions - that's what the forum is for. In the end, it's your car, your life. Do what helps you sleep at night, as per sangyup81's advice. As emotional as we get about oil here on BITOG, it's really not worth losing sleep over.

 

[sxg6]

Things can get kind of confusing. For example: From my experience, in many hondas, the engine oil gets dark very slowly. This doesn't mean the oil isn't doing it's job, it just means different engines affect engine oils differently. I can't stress enough, I would not think something is wrong with your engine just because the oil is dark. Running out of gas would not affect the engine oil at all in my view. Lastly, I normally do not link to Amsoil documentation, but I think they do a great job of summarizing fuel dilution.

http://home.comcast.net/~dsmphotos/bitog/fueldilution.pdf

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: highmilegeguy
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: highmilegeguy

Its Dirty oil and it should be changed with the seasons, at least. You're not pushing "dark" oil through your bearings, you're pushing dirt filled oil through them. You show me where its good to run dirt through the bearings and valves if you want to get [censored] with me.


Do you have proof?

Every UOA that I've send in had black oil, however the results were good-no high levels of contaminants, wear metals always normal. And I have this device called an oil filter that filters out contaminants that might damage those bearings and valves.


+1 oil filters clean out this dirt, down to about 20 microns, which, in case you don't know, is extremely small.
You assume the filter is working. If it gets filled up, it simply bypasses the unfiltered oil. Then your filter is doing zip.
Amazing the illogical arguments guys make to justify not changing the oil.



You really are hilarious. Oil filters in 99% of cases will never go into bypass, because it takes a LOT of pressure to do that. And oil filters don't get "filled up" that quickly. You have the basic idea correct, but you are completely missing teh scale. IE filters with 25+k miles on them are still in perfectly usable condition.

 

[OilBlazer93]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Thanks... I just think i need to call "Shenanigans" on my Engine. Because the Oil is Black now.. and as before, it wasnt.

Most people think im OK with the Oil in there. I do too. Im just trying to figure it out.

Time to do some reading.. and we have some posters "Fighting" on here? I wish they'd stop.

They should both buy cars and see who can get the oil dirty First. One NEVER changes the filter, and one changed it every day. One works for ZMax or Slick 50............

Is it thick when it comes out? If a used 5w30 comes out real thick even though it's warmed up, it's probably carrying some bad stuff and has been in there too long.


I just read the Following:

"Most common causes are ruptured fuel pump diaphragm and flooding the engine by excessive gas pedal use. Good luck and hope this helps"

EDIT: -OF FUEL DILUTION- regarding above thing of what i read. And whats a "Fuel Diaphram?"

.. I can tell you, i did this. I now have Two questions:

1) Is all that gas actually -Cleaning- the engine? and

2) Is my Oil OK still, OR is it warranted to be Changed?

I made my engine SUPER Flooded. Yes I Did... Pump,pump,pump,pump,pump,pump, tun,turn,turn,turn,turn,turn... Drive, Sputter stop... In my _Vehicle.- Repeat, flooded flooded flooded.... (You get the idea.)

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Thanks... I just think i need to call "Shenanigans" on my Engine. Because the Oil is Black now.. and as before, it wasnt.

Most people think im OK with the Oil in there. I do too. Im just trying to figure it out.

Time to do some reading.. and we have some posters "Fighting" on here? I wish they'd stop.

They should both buy cars and see who can get the oil dirty First. One NEVER changes the filter, and one changed it every day. One works for ZMax or Slick 50............

Is it thick when it comes out? If a used 5w30 comes out real thick even though it's warmed up, it's probably carrying some bad stuff and has been in there too long.


I just read the Following:

"Most common causes are ruptured fuel pump diaphragm and flooding the engine by excessive gas pedal use. Good luck and hope this helps"

.. I can tell you, i did this. I now have Two questions:

1) Is all that gas actually -Cleaning- the engine? and

2) Is my Oil OK still, OR is it warranted to be Changed?

I made my engine SUPER Flooded. Yes I Did... Pump,pump,pump,pump,pump,pump, tun,turn,turn,turn,turn,turn... Drive, Sputter stop... In my _Vehicle.- Repeat, flooded flooded flooded.... (You get the idea.)



Generally this isn't the cause of fuel dilution. This doesn't really happen anymore with modern EFI, since pumping the pedal doesn't do anything. Actually, if anything it is less likely, since on most FI cars, holding your foot to the floor will shut off the fuel injectors, allowing the engine to be spun without firing.

The most common causes are excessive idling, cold starts, lots of short trips, and if you have a Direct Injected engine, the fuel wash on the cylinder walls helps contribute. If in the winter you have a few mile commute, and it rarely sees any highway miles, and/or you start it 10+ minutes before you drive it anywhere, you might end up with fuel dilution. If you think you have bad fuel dilution, take a few hours on a nice warm day, and drive on the highway for 1 1/2 -2 hours, this will get the oil up to temperature, and the fuel will evaporate. Gas doesn't clean an engine. Kerosene is supposed to, but gasoline with Ethanol will just hurt it.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Black oil and dark brown are two different things. Your oil should not be black. If it is, I'd suspect that you have a mechanical problem - excessive fuel dilution/blowby.


.. Fuel Dilution?

What can cause Fuel Dilution?

And if Oil is dark due to that.. Changey time?

Or is Dark Oil "OK" if it has like 100 miles on it...

I ran out of gas in the Blazer, now its Black. Thats why im asking.


That is probably unrelated, but if anything it might be because when you are running out of gas, the engine is running very lean, and lean burning means burning much hotter. That may have something to do with it.

 

[OilBlazer93]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Black oil and dark brown are two different things. Your oil should not be black. If it is, I'd suspect that you have a mechanical problem - excessive fuel dilution/blowby.


.. Fuel Dilution?

What can cause Fuel Dilution?

And if Oil is dark due to that.. Changey time?

Or is Dark Oil "OK" if it has like 100 miles on it...

I ran out of gas in the Blazer, now its Black. Thats why im asking.


That is probably unrelated, but if anything it might be because when you are running out of gas, the engine is running very lean, and lean burning means burning much hotter. That may have something to do with it.


Thanks for Both your Posts! ANd i can tell you.. That i ALWAYS let my car Idle for a LOOONG time!! So.. yes i believe i DO have Fuel Dilution! (t is good to know its not any Blown Gaskets. Please confirm this...)

Now.. are you saying i should DRIVE it on the Highway for "A Few Hours" (Consider it done!) .. OR Change the Oil? (Driving it will make the Fuel in the Oil burn up, and i just top off with Oil ti get my -Lubrication back? My Engine is Tough...)

And in any case.. STOP Warming it up for 10-30 Minutes?

I thought it would be "Fully Operational" at Idle for when time to Drive came..

 

[OilBlazer93]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Thanks... I just think i need to call "Shenanigans" on my Engine. Because the Oil is Black now.. and as before, it wasnt.

Most people think im OK with the Oil in there. I do too. Im just trying to figure it out.

Time to do some reading.. and we have some posters "Fighting" on here? I wish they'd stop.

They should both buy cars and see who can get the oil dirty First. One NEVER changes the filter, and one changed it every day. One works for ZMax or Slick 50............

Is it thick when it comes out? If a used 5w30 comes out real thick even though it's warmed up, it's probably carrying some bad stuff and has been in there too long.


I just read the Following:

"Most common causes are ruptured fuel pump diaphragm and flooding the engine by excessive gas pedal use. Good luck and hope this helps"

.. I can tell you, i did this. I now have Two questions:

1) Is all that gas actually -Cleaning- the engine? and

2) Is my Oil OK still, OR is it warranted to be Changed?

I made my engine SUPER Flooded. Yes I Did... Pump,pump,pump,pump,pump,pump, tun,turn,turn,turn,turn,turn... Drive, Sputter stop... In my _Vehicle.- Repeat, flooded flooded flooded.... (You get the idea.)



Generally this isn't the cause of fuel dilution. This doesn't really happen anymore with modern EFI, since pumping the pedal doesn't do anything. Actually, if anything it is less likely, since on most FI cars, holding your foot to the floor will shut off the fuel injectors, allowing the engine to be spun without firing.

The most common causes are excessive idling, cold starts, lots of short trips, and if you have a Direct Injected engine, the fuel wash on the cylinder walls helps contribute. If in the winter you have a few mile commute, and it rarely sees any highway miles, and/or you start it 10+ minutes before you drive it anywhere, you might end up with fuel dilution. If you think you have bad fuel dilution, take a few hours on a nice warm day, and drive on the highway for 1 1/2 -2 hours, this will get the oil up to temperature, and the fuel will evaporate. Gas doesn't clean an engine. Kerosene is supposed to, but gasoline with Ethanol will just hurt it.


I also read this:

"Currently, there is a fuel dilution issue with all 2007-2010 GM, Ford and Dodge Diesel Trucks. Issue is that the fuel injector pressure becomes too much for the intake valve to seal the diesel fuel off from the cylinder on the downward stroke, and the diesel fuel then washes down the cylinder walls and into the oil sump below.

This creates 2 problems related to fuel dilution: 1) The small layer of oil that would normally stay on the cylinder walls to protect the cylinder sleeves from the piston on its normal upstroke is washed away, leaving the cylinder wall prone to excessive wear, and 2) the diluted oil, when it does make its way back up from the sump to the cylinder walls, is often lower in viscosity and grade, which does not give your engine the protection it needs.
Source(s):
Obtained knowledge of fuel dilution issue while at a seminar for a synthetic motor oil company."

People think i should change the Oil. Is this the right thing to do... ?

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Black oil and dark brown are two different things. Your oil should not be black. If it is, I'd suspect that you have a mechanical problem - excessive fuel dilution/blowby.


.. Fuel Dilution?

What can cause Fuel Dilution?

And if Oil is dark due to that.. Changey time?

Or is Dark Oil "OK" if it has like 100 miles on it...

I ran out of gas in the Blazer, now its Black. Thats why im asking.


That is probably unrelated, but if anything it might be because when you are running out of gas, the engine is running very lean, and lean burning means burning much hotter. That may have something to do with it.


Thanks for Both your Posts! ANd i can tell you.. That i ALWAYS let my car Idle for a LOOONG time!! So.. yes i believe i DO have Fuel Dilution! (t is good to know its not any Blown Gaskets. Please confirm this...)

Now.. are you saying i should DRIVE it on the Highway for "A Few Hours" (Consider it done!) .. OR Change the Oil? (Driving it will make the Fuel in the Oil burn up, and i just top off with Oil ti get my -Lubrication back? My Engine is Tough...)

And in any case.. STOP Warming it up for 10-30 Minutes?

I thought it would be "Fully Operational" at Idle for when time to Drive came..


Well, I would get a blackstone sample kit, and go ahead and change the oil. The UOA should come back with how much fuel dilution you have, and if any bad head gaskets should show up in anti-freeze/ Sodium/Potassium. And yes, stop warming it up so long. Idling is actually worse for an engines as (beside fuel dilution) it warms up slower. When an engine is cold, nothing fits together as tightly as when they are operating temp, which can potentially result in higher wear. Idle it at most 5 minutes to get the heat started maybe.

I probably missed it, but what car is this, what engine, how many miles? That will help us recommend you an oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93

Now.. are you saying i should DRIVE it on the Highway for "A Few Hours" (Consider it done!) .. OR Change the Oil? (Driving it will make the Fuel in the Oil burn up, and i just top off with Oil ti get my -Lubrication back? My Engine is Tough...)

While it may burn the fuel and moisture off, the damage to the oil caused by the fuel may have been permanent.

Quote:

And in any case.. STOP Warming it up for 10-30 Minutes?

Yes. That is crazy. Turn on the ignition, put on your seat belt, turn on the lights, and start driving (gently).

 

[OilBlazer93]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OilBlazer93

Now.. are you saying i should DRIVE it on the Highway for "A Few Hours" (Consider it done!) .. OR Change the Oil? (Driving it will make the Fuel in the Oil burn up, and i just top off with Oil ti get my -Lubrication back? My Engine is Tough...)

While it may burn the fuel and moisture off, the damage to the oil caused by the fuel may have been permanent.

Quote:

And in any case.. STOP Warming it up for 10-30 Minutes?

Yes. That is crazy. Turn on the ignition, put on your seat belt, turn on the lights, and start driving (gently).


Sounds like i should just get an Oil Change. I flooded by engine -Hella- Bad.

And IF i did any "Damage".. Im sure a nice, High Mileage Engine Oil will help Nurse it. Maybe even with some "NAPA Mos2 Moly in a Can!"

People like Thin Oil. However, m old-fashioned, and i believe my 10W-40 "Standby" will do the Job.