Well ... we JUST bought a Prius.. :-)

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Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I'd still like to know why you paid only a couple hundred under book value on the Prius, but sold the Rav4, a pretty popular, reliable vehicle, for a whole grand under.


I'm not OP, but have both prius and RAV4 and can tell you my prius uses 1/2 of the amount of gas RAV4 uses on hwy and 1/3 in city. Do your math and calculate annual gas savings. Very simple to do.


I appreciate your response, but it has nothing to do with my question. The difference in gas mileage is some what irrelevant to my question, since any small four-banger would give an increase in gas mileage. The Rav4 is also in a different segment and serves a different purpose. In other words, those shopping for a Rav4 most likely aren't cross-shopping it with a Prius, so gas mileage shouldn't be reflected in the argument to sell for a grand less than book value.



Since everybody's prying for my response, I'll say this.

Our commute every week consists of two trips to a town 70 miles away and back, (140 miles round trip) and one trip a week to a town 45 miles away and back (90 miles round trip). I will be starting a new job in this town that is 45 miles away so as gas has already become an issue, it will become a very large issue soon.

My Hyundai is 4 Wheel Drive. It plows us through almost every thing we throw at it. It is our wonderful LX luxury SUV that has all the goods. We get 19/25 City/Highway. My wife's Rav4 is a 4 Cylinder, powerless, front wheel drive vehicle that gets stuck in snow and slides on ice like nobody's business (even after good tires). I'll be frank - I don't feel safe driving it on the highway, especially in high wind and ice. It gets 20/24 City/Highway.

> We have both been discussing getting a vehicle with better gas mileage, and toyed around with the idea of a Prius or some other high mpg vehicle. We sat on it for about 6 months, and this deal popped up. We met with the seller, the guy was very hospitable, we met with his family, and we even shared some mutual history together as we discovered we all lived in the same small country town at one point. The guy let me drive it all over town for the afternoon, encouraged me to check everything out with it, and to let me know if I had any questions. He explained to me a thorough maintenance schedule, and explained to me their friends owned it before them and were very diligent about maintenance. I checked under the hood and like I said earlier, the thing was immaculate.

> Last night I did a diagnostic test on the battery, and it is 100% operational and meets all of the requirements...12.1V when on accessory, 14.1 V when the engine is on. This is the standard battery voltage for a brand new battery in a Gen II Prius.

> The car is absolutely fabulous, does not make a sound when stopped at a light. Whisper quiet. Last night I got 58.0 mpg average from my trip to the 70 mile town and back. It's literally going to give me almost three times as much gas mileage as our SUV's. Bottom line is that we don't need two SUV's, especially since the RAV is only a 4-banger, and it gets roughly the same mileage (in our experience) as my Santa Fe.

> We love our RAV 4, but we will be totally topside when we sell it, which will help pay for a good chunk of our new Prius. We are getting out from under a 12.9% Loan on the RAV (from when she was in college) to an amazing 2.9% loan on this Prius.

> Anyone who has any doubts about this battery can watch this video :

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local...ishColumbiaHome

This guy owns a taxi fleet and replaces brakes every 18 months, and batteries every 750,000km (roughly 460,000 miles). I think I've made a solid choice. I know the hybrid haters around here but we are very happy with our decision and I had the most relaxing ride driving back by myself last night from watertown.

We are very satisfied.
 
So, seeing as most hybrid/electric car supporters are also against burning oil, coal, nat. gas to generate electricity, and are against hydroelectric and nuclear generated electricity, how do you propose to support the nation's electrical grid when everyone gets home at 6PM and plugs in their Volt to recharge it, all at the same time?

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Good take. As a current prius owner I can assure you my next car WILL NOT be a hybrid. It will be full electric or plug in hybrid. It's finally time to be be free from the oil industry slavery. Let the BITOG hybrid bashes spew their lies, I don't care.
 
Looks like you picked a good car. Our niece just bought a 2012 Prius and this was the first time I've actually looked at one up close, hands-on, and also driven. I'm not a fan of the styling but I came away impressed with what Toyota has done.

I also say drive what you like.
 
Congrats on the Prius. 58 mpg? That's almost twice the mpg I get on my Kawasaki Concours motorcycle. :-0 I have to do some creative tweaking on that son-of-a-gun.

What oil are you running now?
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I appreciate your response, but it has nothing to do with my question. The difference in gas mileage is some what irrelevant to my question, since any small four-banger would give an increase in gas mileage. The Rav4 is also in a different segment and serves a different purpose. In other words, those shopping for a Rav4 most likely aren't cross-shopping it with a Prius, so gas mileage shouldn't be reflected in the argument to sell for a grand less than book value.


No, you incorrect, most people use RAV4 just to commute and nothing else. Thus, if someone drives 20,000 miles a year in RAV4, the fuel cost will be ~$4,000 vs ~1,500 in Prius. Pretty self explanatory.

Since Prius is a hatchback with folding seats, most things I can carry in RAV4 I can carry in Prius. I only keep RAV4 to pull a boat or trailer from time to time.


I'll start off by saying that I'm all about having conversations, not arguments, so saying things like, "you incorrect" are not only polarizing, but unjustifiable. How is an opinion wrong when it's not anything that can be refuted? I guess I shot-gunned my response when I should have been more pointed. My true question, and what makes the gas mileage irrelevant, was to ask the OP why he sold his Rav4 for so much under book value. If the Rav4 is worth more, then selling quickly may have eaten into his fuel savings.

Now that we've separated that out, I'll expand on my second point: when I buy something, there's an intended purpose. You stated yourself that you still use your Rav4 for towing, so irrespective of its normal service, you own it for that purpose. If you no longer needed to tow, would you still own the Rav4?

An example of something similar is the gaming PC I bought a couple of years ago. I spent (and spend on energy costs) a lot more on this than my laptop in order to play the latest games at the highest settings. 90% of the time, however, I simply surf the net and play music and videos. My laptop runs at exactly 1/10th the load while hooked up to my monitor, doing the same low-performance things, though I rarely take the time to set it up that way, because I don't spend tons of time gaming, and usually play an hour here and there on a whim. The laptop's purpose was for mobility, anyway, to use while out and about, and for logging my car's ECM.

I don't plan on getting rid of either, though needs change and so too might my future buying habits. People tend to move on when specific needs are no longer required or deemed necessary, such as owning an SUV that doesn't have enough power, isn't perceived to be safer, and, like you said, doesn't provide any more practicality than, say, a Prius.

Thanks, OP, for your explanation. Enjoy the new ride, and make sure to post up your thoughts after some more time behind the wheel. So far, it sounds like you're on your way to saving a good amount of money, regardless of whether you (may have) lost a little on the sale of the Rav4.
 
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Ill just add I have only known 2 people to own a Prius, both 2/2 of them had failed batteries. They were both 2005s and one person said he was on his second battery and it was dieing the other person they were getting rid of the car and didnt care about it. I asked alot of questions to both and the common thread was both let their cars sit unused for at least 6 weeks then started having problems. I wouldnt let the car sit at all and make sure it is driven at least every other day. I would buy one just to see what mileage I could get out of one.
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
So, seeing as most hybrid/electric car supporters are also against burning oil, coal, nat. gas to generate electricity, and are against hydroelectric and nuclear generated electricity, how do you propose to support the nation's electrical grid when everyone gets home at 6PM and plugs in their Volt to recharge it, all at the same time?



Really? You (or someone on your behalf??) has interviewed "most hybrid/electric car supporters" and discovered that they "are also against burning oil, coal, nat. gas to generate electricity, and are against hydroelectric and nuclear generated electricity"

Wow. You should post that all over the internet because, you know, if it's on the internet, it must be true.

Or maybe, is it just your belief, without any factual data, that hybrid owners are tree huggers and thus must be against any type of non renewable energy generation?
 
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Originally Posted By: k24a4
Congrats on the Prius. 58 mpg? That's almost twice the mpg I get on my Kawasaki Concours motorcycle. :-0 I have to do some creative tweaking on that son-of-a-gun.

What oil are you running now?



Yeah, 58 mpg is pretty sweet. I went 55 on the highway.

Sticker on the car says Quaker State 5w30, with a change at 7/5/12 or 129,016 miles, so I assume it is a fresh change from the dealership. My guess is QS Advanced Durability 5w30.
 
Batteries have been shown to last well over 10 years so far. Oil recommended is I believe 5W30 on the earlier ones, 0W20 on the new ones. OCI can easily go 5000-7500. However, the CVT transmission fluid change (may need it if never done) is expensive, like 400-500 due to fluids no dipstick etc.
 
I just bought a 2012 Honda Insight and got it for the mpg's, not worried at all about the battery replacement down the road or other things.

Will deal with it when it comes up, just like any other vehicle
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Cabbies around here buy a lot of new Priuses as well. No swapped batteries up to 350k miles. Initial cautious skepticism lasted for about 3 years until early adopters trumped that with over 300k miles of trouble-free miles in brutal service. Batteries and struts holding up very well.
I do not like the car for other reasons, but the battery issue is a non-issue in real life in my market.


[censored]. The 1st gen Prius are turning out to be complete disasters, needing MG2 stators, steering racks, battery packs and inverters.

The 2nd gen Prius are OK but I would not say the traction batteries are bulletproof by any means. Just look on priuschat and you will see that failures are not uncommon by the 200k mark, sometimes even sooner depending on the region. Struts are a very common maint item on the Gen 2 Prius based on the cars I've seen and the reports on the forum.

Originally Posted By: Spector
Batteries have been shown to last well over 10 years so far. Oil recommended is I believe 5W30 on the earlier ones, 0W20 on the new ones. OCI can easily go 5000-7500. However, the CVT transmission fluid change (may need it if never done) is expensive, like 400-500 due to fluids no dipstick etc.

Again, this is not true. Battery pack replacements are common on the Gen 1, and the Gen 2 packs will likely require replacement eventually. There have already been a number of failures as reported no the Priuschat forum.

The transmission fluid is also easily replaced. There is a fill plug and a drain plug. Per the service manual, Techstream is not required for the fluid level check...you simply fill the transaxle until the fluid is at the fill hole (or within 5mm). This is probably the only Toyota transaxle taking ATF-WS that does not require the fluid level check with Techstream.
 
OP - if you do "by the book" frequent oil changes I recommend sticking to a brand name (pennzoil, valvoline, castrol, etc.) 5W30 SN dino.

If you are willing to go outside of the owners manual you will see a slight fuel economy improvement by going to a 5W20 dino. There are charts on this website where Toyota Canada approved the use of 5W20 and 0W20 for the Gen II Prius.

If you are willing to go longer oil change intervals then M1 AFE 0W20 is an excellent oil for this car.

As far as reliability - the Gen II Prius is well proven to have excellent reliability. The traction battery is not an issue and there are many cases of owners going over 300,000 miles with original drive train including the battery. The Prius transmission is a simple but ingenious device with very few moving parts that will last a very long time if the recommended fluid changes are done.

There is one owner (delivery driver) that put 465,000 miles on his 2009 Prius with original engine, tranny and battery (not a typo) before trading it in on a new Prius V:

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-main-forum/79235-299-999-mile-club-62.html#post1461579
 
Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
So, seeing as most hybrid/electric car supporters are also against burning oil, coal, nat. gas to generate electricity, and are against hydroelectric and nuclear generated electricity, how do you propose to support the nation's electrical grid when everyone gets home at 6PM and plugs in their Volt to recharge it, all at the same time?



Really? You (or someone on your behalf??) has interviewed "most hybrid/electric car supporters" and discovered that they "are also against burning oil, coal, nat. gas to generate electricity, and are against hydroelectric and nuclear generated electricity"

Wow. You should post that all over the internet because, you know, if it's on the internet, it must be true.

Or maybe, is it just your belief, without any factual data, that hybrid owners are tree huggers and thus must be against any type of non renewable energy generation?


Exactly! I'm actually pro-nuclear energy if it is done correctly, like in France or Germany. The aging GE reactors built on shores and along fault lines is a big mistake.

I'm for all types of renewable energy and natural gas could be a nice bridge too.
 
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Ill just add I have only known 2 people to own a Prius, both 2/2 of them had failed batteries. They were both 2005s and one person said he was on his second battery and it was dieing the other person they were getting rid of the car and didnt care about it. I asked alot of questions to both and the common thread was both let their cars sit unused for at least 6 weeks then started having problems. I wouldnt let the car sit at all and make sure it is driven at least every other day. I would buy one just to see what mileage I could get out of one.


You confused starting batteries (small lead acid $100-200 a piece) with high voltage traction battery that lasts for a long time and fails infrequently, unless it's abused by high temp and excessive EV use.

The starting battery does fail a lot when used infrequently and if completely discharged like any other automotive battery. This battery is small as it starts on board computers rather than engine. Thus, it's very easy to completely discharge by car sitting idle for a few weeks.
 
I think all Prius ask for 0W20. There's got to be some measurable differenc in mpg between 0W20 and 5W30, but I guess when have such high base mpg, couple % difference is not a big deal.
 
No not confused they said they cost over $3000.00 each.
One car would only run in gas mode the other car was always charging with very short run time.
 
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Interesting. NiMH can self-discharge too (harmful for battery), but it should take much more than 6 weeks.
Either way, it makes no sense to buy a hybrid (or electric) if one drives little. The more you drive the more you save, hence huge prius success in taxi service.
 
Originally Posted By: lemonade
I think all Prius ask for 0W20. There's got to be some measurable differenc in mpg between 0W20 and 5W30, but I guess when have such high base mpg, couple % difference is not a big deal.


It is the high base MPG that allows the user to actually notice the difference that the oil makes.
 
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