Well ... we JUST bought a Prius.. :-)

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Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: addyguy
With all the 'questions' around battery life, I would not buy a hybrid with 126k on it!

That just sounds like you are asking for it...but that's just me. If you're happy, then do enjoy the car!


What is the big deal with the $1600 battery after 250,000 miles when an automatic car at similar mileage would be facing a $3000 tranny repair? Somehow no one complains about it.


Well to be technically fair, the Prius would require a battery replacement AND transmission replacement at that point, which is still more money no matter how you cut it.
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
With all that future and present needed maintence, or should be needed attention, you should have stayed with your gas engine. I understand that the amount of additional money to pay for these batteries, etc, it takes years to see a break even point. I think the figure for a new Volt was 9 years to break even and the Leaf 7 years....not to mention the labor of rare earth processes destruction to plant earth. Electric is not the answer....sorry to rant!


Like present needed/should be needed maintenance wouldn't be required on a gas engine vehicle with the same mileage?

Let's see - mentioned was tranny fluid change, coolant change and 12 volt battery replacement. Last time I looked at a gas engine vehicle (today in fact) it had all the parts that need the above mentioned maintenance, with the exception of the inverter, which only needs coolant.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

What is the big deal with the $1600 battery after 250,000 miles when an automatic car at similar mileage would be facing a $3000 tranny repair? Somehow no one complains about it.


Is the Prius Pedal-powered?

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I wouldn't be too worried about the Prius. While 125K is a decent amount of miles, those cars are pretty reliable.

Also, the battery replacement cost isn't too bad, IMO.

People who bash the Prius seem to forget that there are expensive parts to fail on non-hybrid cars as well. In fact, I'm trying to figure out what to do with my Hyundai right now. The dealer says the ABS pump has failed and it will cost $2000 after tax to fix it.
frown.gif
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The Prius doesn't come with one of these?

I'm anti-hybrid, but ONLY because of the following (which may be simple ignorance on my part):

1. Regardless of how reliable, SOME people don't keep the car long enough to recoup the additional cost of the vehicle. Is the residual value. Does the markup carry over when the vehicle is sold (i.e., if a hybrid is initially X% more than a comparable gasoline-only-powered vehicle, with it result in X% more for your trade or private sale 100,000 miles later?

2. There does not seem to be a huge supply of these at any given time, and while government incentives seem nice, there don't appear to ever be any from the manufacturer's themselves. The same thing happened when the Honda Fit was redesigned.

3. I feel as if battery tech will get to the point where very small range-extending generators will be all that will be required to supplement a MUCH healthier battery-only range, kind of like the initial Volt pipe dreams. (I'm not criticizing Chevy's decision to couple the engine directly to the tranny under certain scenarios, nor the Volt itself.) I just feel that now is not the IDEAL time to buy a new hybrid. I'll give it a decade. I do thank the green movement proving the market sustainable, and look forward to its expansion, along with the additional R&D money that it brings.

WITH ALL OF THAT BEING SAID:

If you think you got a good deal, and you enjoy the car, then that's all that matters. You answered my question about why he sold it so quickly, which was the only real red flag I saw. Regardless of what others are saying, $7700 doesn't seem like a bad deal on a Toyota of that age and mileage, if it's in good shape and needs nothing.

I'd still like to know why you paid only a couple hundred under book value on the Prius, but sold the Rav4, a pretty popular, reliable vehicle, for a whole grand under.
 
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Originally Posted By: cchase


Well to be technically fair, the Prius would require a battery replacement AND transmission replacement at that point, which is still more money no matter how you cut it.


No, because prius transaxle has no clutches that wear out, unlike automatic tranmission or even manual transmission.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I'd still like to know why you paid only a couple hundred under book value on the Prius, but sold the Rav4, a pretty popular, reliable vehicle, for a whole grand under.


I'm not OP, but have both prius and RAV4 and can tell you my prius uses 1/2 of the amount of gas RAV4 uses on hwy and 1/3 in city. Do your math and calculate annual gas savings. Very simple to do.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I'd still like to know why you paid only a couple hundred under book value on the Prius, but sold the Rav4, a pretty popular, reliable vehicle, for a whole grand under.


I'm not OP, but have both prius and RAV4 and can tell you my prius uses 1/2 of the amount of gas RAV4 uses on hwy and 1/3 in city. Do your math and calculate annual gas savings. Very simple to do.


I appreciate your response, but it has nothing to do with my question. The difference in gas mileage is some what irrelevant to my question, since any small four-banger would give an increase in gas mileage. The Rav4 is also in a different segment and serves a different purpose. In other words, those shopping for a Rav4 most likely aren't cross-shopping it with a Prius, so gas mileage shouldn't be reflected in the argument to sell for a grand less than book value.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'm anti-hybrid, but ONLY because of the following (which may be simple ignorance on my part):


I'm no "fan" of hybrids. It's not because of the idea; I just don't particularly like most vehicles that are hybrids these days. There are certainly more hybrids coming out, and I'm sure there will be, in short order, a hybrid that I would find attractive.

However, taxi fleets up here have been gobbling up new and used hybrids, usually the Prius. They have shown themselves to be reliable in all our varied weather conditions and cheap to operate. If they were garbage or too expensive, the cabbies would have dropped them in a second.

Right now, there are more Prius taxis here than Crown Vics. The discontinuation of the Crown Vic is irrelevant, since taxis are usually used cars, not new. So, if something can displace the venerable Crown Vic, there's something special about it.
 
Cabbies around here buy a lot of new Priuses as well. No swapped batteries up to 350k miles. Initial cautious skepticism lasted for about 3 years until early adopters trumped that with over 300k miles of trouble-free miles in brutal service. Batteries and struts holding up very well.
I do not like the car for other reasons, but the battery issue is a non-issue in real life in my market.
 
The irony[and the lie] of the hybrids is, it harms the environment MORE to build one than it does to build a Hummer H2 and drive it for 10 years. There was actually a study done on that.

Well, so much for saving mommy gaia.......

Praise the Lord and pass the petrol......
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
http://autos.aol.com/article/hybrid-buyers-arent-repeat-buyers/?ncid=webmail10

For what it's worth, I thought it was interesting anyway.


Interesting, for sure. Mostly what I found interesting is the bizarre conclusion they reached from the data. That headline is pretty much the height of intellectual laziness: "Hybrid Buyers aren't Repeat Buyers".

Um....huh??? Hybrid buyers 35% as likely to buy another hybrid as their next car, compared to the rest of car buyer who are between 1.5-2% likely to buy a hybrid. Hybrids comprise about 2% of the available models out there, yet former hybrid buyers make a hybrid their vehicle of choice 35% of the time.

Also, the article makes it seem as if people are "replacing" their hybrid with a gasoline-only car--yet the data only reflect the next purchase. So, if a family owns a Prius and they need a minivan, that means they aren't "loyal" to hybrids? That's like saying if a pickup truck owner buys a commuter car, he's "not loyal" to pickups? Hmmm....

I think those reporting on that data need to hop back on the logic bus. People who own hybrids seem pretty likely to be a hybrid again, given the limit options which are available.

As the old saying goes, torture numbers enough and they'll tell you what ever story it is you want to hear.
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
The irony[and the lie] of the hybrids is, it harms the environment MORE to build one than it does to build a Hummer H2 and drive it for 10 years. There was actually a study done on that.

Well, so much for saving mommy gaia.......

Praise the Lord and pass the petrol......


Please tell me your kidding? What's next, a study saying the world was coming to an end 5 years ago? I have 20 year old socks full of fewer holes that than tired, thoroughly-debunked piece of propaganda. I also don't see very many 10 year old Hummers out on the road....
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
The irony[and the lie] of the hybrids is, it harms the environment MORE to build one than it does to build a Hummer H2 and drive it for 10 years. There was actually a study done on that.

Well, so much for saving mommy gaia.......

Praise the Lord and pass the petrol......


Which study are you referencing? Wasn't that "study" roundly criticized b/c it was clearly built on non-realistic assumptions? That "study" created some chain e-mail myths and rumors that people still believe. I believe the "study" you're referencing was a paper put together by CNW Market Research.

Here's the link:
http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST PDF VERSION.pdf

The main flaw is that the authors claimed a Prius would only accrue 109,000 miles in its lifetime (an unrealistically low estimate). They claimed a Hummer H1 would drive more than 379,000 miles in its life (an unrealistically high estimate). That's how they made the claim that the Hummer had a lower energy cost per mile, by claiming the hummer would hast 3x as many miles during its life. I think many people would dispute those lifetime mileage claims.

Here's one of many articles pointing out the errors in the study:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips-article/1010861_prius-versus-hummer-exploding-the-myth

I'm not necessarily pro-Prius or anti-Hummer. But I am strongly against unrealistic, unscientific "studies" that people claim are fact.
 
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If I recall.....some of those Prius actually "spec" 0W-20......but I'd think you should be able to "get by" with a 5W-20 or even 5W-30......wouldn't go any higher than that though.....

Great find
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: cchase
http://autos.aol.com/article/hybrid-buyers-arent-repeat-buyers/?ncid=webmail10

For what it's worth, I thought it was interesting anyway.


Interesting, for sure. Mostly what I found interesting is the bizarre conclusion they reached from the data. That headline is pretty much the height of intellectual laziness: "Hybrid Buyers aren't Repeat Buyers".

Um....huh??? Hybrid buyers 35% as likely to buy another hybrid as their next car, compared to the rest of car buyer who are between 1.5-2% likely to buy a hybrid. Hybrids comprise about 2% of the available models out there, yet former hybrid buyers make a hybrid their vehicle of choice 35% of the time.

Also, the article makes it seem as if people are "replacing" their hybrid with a gasoline-only car--yet the data only reflect the next purchase. So, if a family owns a Prius and they need a minivan, that means they aren't "loyal" to hybrids? That's like saying if a pickup truck owner buys a commuter car, he's "not loyal" to pickups? Hmmm....

I think those reporting on that data need to hop back on the logic bus. People who own hybrids seem pretty likely to be a hybrid again, given the limit options which are available.

As the old saying goes, torture numbers enough and they'll tell you what ever story it is you want to hear.


Good take. As a current prius owner I can assure you my next car WILL NOT be a hybrid. It will be full electric or plug in hybrid. It's finally time to be be free from the oil industry slavery. Let the BITOG hybrid bashes spew their lies, I don't care.
 
To the OP: Congrats on your new Prius! I've always had my eye on the Jetta TDI's, but the Jetta's are non-existent in the local market.
 
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I appreciate your response, but it has nothing to do with my question. The difference in gas mileage is some what irrelevant to my question, since any small four-banger would give an increase in gas mileage. The Rav4 is also in a different segment and serves a different purpose. In other words, those shopping for a Rav4 most likely aren't cross-shopping it with a Prius, so gas mileage shouldn't be reflected in the argument to sell for a grand less than book value.


No, you incorrect, most people use RAV4 just to commute and nothing else. Thus, if someone drives 20,000 miles a year in RAV4, the fuel cost will be ~$4,000 vs ~1,500 in Prius. Pretty self explanatory.

Since Prius is a hatchback with folding seats, most things I can carry in RAV4 I can carry in Prius. I only keep RAV4 to pull a boat or trailer from time to time.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: addyguy
With all the 'questions' around battery life, I would not buy a hybrid with 126k on it!

That just sounds like you are asking for it...but that's just me. If you're happy, then do enjoy the car!


What is the big deal with the $1600 battery after 250,000 miles when an automatic car at similar mileage would be facing a $3000 tranny repair? Somehow no one complains about it.



THIS. ^^^
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
As the old saying goes, torture numbers enough and they'll tell you what ever story it is you want to hear.


How To Lie With Statistics on Amazon.com

"Even if you can't find a source of demonstrable bias, allow yourself some degree of skepticism about the results as long as there is a possibility of bias somewhere. There always is."
 
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