weightloss, pills, etc.

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i was just watching a tv show about a weightloss pill called alli.
this might sound funny but i think the world is going about this whole weightloss problem in the wrong way. instead of attacking the symptoms (weight gain). why not attack the problem (the lack of self control). sence a psychological attack wouldnt beprudent, one other way i can think of to do this is to develop a pill that makes food taste bad. yeah how about someone goes and invents a one a day pill you take that makes everything taste really bad. this way that big guy in mexico wont eat 35000 cals a day, because its horrid stuff. gluttens could become glutten free. why not apply this to cigarettes and alcohol too.

seems like people dont have any self control these days.
 
Well ..it's easier said than done. I'll venture to say that you don't have a weight problem. Probably never had. I'll also venture to say, without any judgment one way or the other, that there is SOME undisciplined part of your life that's not quite up to SAE/API standards. Obesity is just a very apparent and visually displeasing problem ..so we tend to regard it with a more critical view if we don't share the condition.

You can have this attitude toward obesity if you're a flaming alcoholic ..an obsessive gambler ..or any number of "defects of personality" and think that you're perfectly alright since you weigh within 10 lbs of your high school weight. Many smokers who are alcoholic and wife beaters are slim and trim
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(extreme examples just to make the point).

This is the usual format. Those who never had weight challenges, typically cannot cross identify with other challenges that they face and fail at. Hence they've found their infidel to flog.

Now, I'll surely go with the notion that you don't like looking at fat people. Some are really visually revolting, but I think that the assumption that they're any more "defective" than any number of other people is misguided.

Now heres one for those who reject the metabolism or genetic aspects to this obesity issue.

Take Shak O'Neil and Kareem Jabbar
. Both are about the same height and both were about at the same level of physical activity. You will never get O'Neil to look like Jabbar outside of a concentration camp ..and maybe if you attempted to treat Jabbar like Cobey beef you may put some pounds on him.

If Shak stops being physically active ..he'll be one lazy sack of **** if you don't already regard him that way (not the lazy part). Jabbar will be a skinny freak with, maybe, a pot belly. Which one is "undisciplined"?

This template example works for mere mortals too. I'm 6'1" with a 30" inseam ..most others are a 33-36" inseam for that height. The lean jean crowd in my height peer group will never be capable of being power lifters ..at least not to the extent that I could reach in the same capacity. I'm built for it. Mr. long distance runner ..isn't.

Now sure, anyone can keep in shape if they applied the right amount of time and effort ...but it's usually those who require very little time or effort to maintain their visually pleasing appearance that are more critical of those who may in fact put forth much more effort than they do, to much less apparent effect.

Again, some fat people are pretty hard to look at ..so I don't necessarily have issue with attitudes that are poised from that view.


Let me add that there is no "magic" when it comes to this (and other) issues. I can't say that I struggled with this all my life ..even though I gained about 3-5 average annually over a very long time. I was always strong enough and healthy enough to make others, who were in leaner condition, look like wimps in my raw power when the need for "beef" was apparent. That is, I wasn't "insecure" in my largeness. I played volleyball and basketball @ 265-280 ..and many a lean jeaner got the surprise of their game getting rejected at the net and in the paint.

So ..was I "undisciplined" ..sure. Did I care as long as I could satisfy my personal needs for self esteem.

My son is overweight ..by any standard you can measure. He can also bench 350 for reps and leg press around 500. His arms are bigger than my thighs were when I was in my 20's. He bypassed most of my suits that I wore in my late 20's as a teenager.

What do you think he's going to look like at 45? Is he inherently a lazy sack of ****?? Maybe ...but I doubt that anyone who isn't, and not his fried, would say it to him without a clear exit strategy. Luckily, he subscribes to his father's philosophy of extending goodwill to all ..and to forgive those who trespass against him.
 
It's often not the calories we eat, but the lack of exercise and/or labor we exert.
Labor saving devices, even a battery powered crecent wrench, is what's killing us.
 
Don't get too uppity with your local tubbo.

His muscles are used to hefting an extra hundred or two pounds daily.

Your scrawniness would be of slight effort to toss around.

Or, worse, tubbo will sit upon thee and squeeze akin to a tube of toothpaste.

Of course, it is easy to outrun tubbo but should he ever get a paw upon thee...............
 
garry Allan, I could not agree with your post more! I have been on both sides of the fence and can see how true your post is. From birth to about my second year of college I could eat what I wanted and had no weight issues. From then on though it was like my metabolism derailed and I could not keep from gaining. I was always an athlete. I can honestly say that I lost 140lbs of fat about 5 years ago and it was insane. It took me about 6 months (layed off awaiting a recall notice) and I had to workout 8 hours a day or more. I also restricted calories a little bit and at one point did Atkins as well. The problem came when I got a new job and went to sitting all day. Even with daily exercise I could barely keep my weight in check. Then I hurt my ankle and spent the next three years sitting onthe coach and it was all over. I finaly found a Dr. to operate on the ankle so the pain is now bearable but I still can not do many of the things I used to do. I can still lift weights but can not really do any of the aerobics I used to enjoy doing.i also can not do Atkins becuase it cause's my gall blader to act up.

Do not get me wrong I am not giveing up I am just saying that it is difficult and I could never have imagined how hard it could be for some people to control their weight. When I was younger I could lose and gain weight easily for various sports.

The problem with trying to change how someone eats when they have an eating disorder is far more complicated then smokeing or drinking alchol. THe latter two vice's you can abstine from completely if need be. You can not go with out eating though. So trying to controll and additicon by controling intake of the very same thing you are additiced to is almost a no win solution! We are not simply talking about will power. If someone is feeling hunger and a desire for food that is a primal drive. If their brain chemistry is messed up we do not have a drug to fix it like we do depression. They are told to just resit the erge to eat. If their hormone's are messed up have fun trying to get help with that one. If it is anything other then low estrogen you are going to have an uphill fight the entire way to get treated. If it is a problem with their fat,glucose metabolism and storage again no treatment just eat less or exercise more.

We ought to be ashamed of how we treat obesse people in this country. We have the best access to health care yet we are not the healthist in the world by far. We ought to be doing a lot more in terms of research. Obesseity treatments includeing thing like "Fat Farm's", bariatric surgery, specialized meal replacements, prescription for gym memberships etc... should be treated like a disease and treated like any other prescription and should be covered by insurance. Like wise we should be doing a lot more research on the obesse to treat it with a pharmicutical approach. Surely if they can nudge the bodies chemistry back in the right direction combined with behavioral modification we can make a huge difference. Obessiety is killing more people then cancer and non-obesity heart disease combined. We have an alarming rate of Type II diabetes amoungst children as well as a lotof hypertension in children. Simply telling someone to say no or eat less is not going to get it done. When the bodies hormones and brain chemistry is telling you to do one thing very little is going to effect. This is why the "Just Say No!" campaign in the 1980's did almost nothing to curb under age sex the hormones and primal drives are simply too strong!
 
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iseems like people dont have any self control these days.




To a very large degree obesity can be traced back to bad eating habits having been learned early. What little Johnny hasn't learned, big John will never learn. A mostly sedentary lifestyle, which is also common, doesn't help at all.

Look at American kids and compare them to kids from other countries. America is leading everybody on the way to fat camp. *burp*

obesity by country
 
I can understand being overweight and not caring enough to do anything. But I can't understand wanting to lose weight by using something that causes "greasy discharge" and recommends you take an extra pair of pants to work instead of just eating less and/or exercising more.

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If their brain chemistry is messed up we do not have a drug to fix it like we do depression.




I disagree. They can stabilize things a bit, but they're no cure and it's usually a guessing game as to which class of drug may actually help a specific person.

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We have the best access to health care yet we are not the healthist in the world by far.




Well, some of you do.
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Their is a cornacopia of things working against kids and grown ups. Corn Syrup and sugar are in everything from canned vegtables to meat products. Everyting is refined to the point that the so called whole food isno longer whole! Then we have the fact that those things that are worst for you are usualy the most affordable. To add insult to injury most of us are never properly taught how and what to eat. So yes I do understand that their are a lot of people that are fat because of their bad choices but that does not account for all of them!In fact that is a huge lie that has been purpatrated for a long time. It seems like ever couple of weeks they find a gene,virus,bacteria or chemical in the environment that is accelerateing peoples propensity for obesiety.

It is shame that you have to have money to get help! As I look around I see more fat people then skinny any more from kids to elderly. I am not willing to write the population off.We really need to be comprehensive from the food supply all the way to the table in helping people.Employers need to adjust their work schedules to allow for things like 6 small low cal meals etc... We already know how much can be done with life style changes but if society does not support those changes then you basicly can not get compliance. Try eating a 75-200 calorie meal ever two hours at work and see what it gets you! To add to that unless you pack your own food all the time you can not get anything convient when onthe road that is healthy.
 
You've also got to realize how we've changed as a nation. Mori touched on it a bit. When I was doing my "duck and cover" Cold War nuke drills (learning how to kiss my behind good-bye) there was also a VERY INTENSE media campaign for the Presidents Council on Physical Fitness. Tons of intramural sports ..cub scouts (which included some sport activity - typically) ..etc..etc. But most of that has seemed to have eroded into a far more passive thing.

..but I surely did all that. Like John, even into my late 20's I could gain or shed 35 lbs in a years time. Fatten up over the winter ...shed it like an overcoat in the summer. At 27 I decided to tone up a bit and jogged (slow jog) 2 miles every other day and managed to get to about 225, IIRC. At 36 I weighed in at my last real job @ 240.

..again ..from the aspect of enjoying looking at svelte bodies where ever you go, it's an understandable thing ..but it's not practical for many ..and impossible for some with the life that we've made for ourselves.

If you don't have to work too hard to keep the weight down ...G0D bless(ed) you. If you've got the motivation, and the rest of life doesn't get in the way, and you can fight tooth and nail and prevail in the battle of the bulge ...my hat's off to you. But if you've found the challenge a bit too much to get a grip on ...I understand that too.
 
It has to do with self control. I've noticed a pattern though. There is always one thing a person is addicted to. Some are addicted to:

Money
Food
Cigarettes
Alcohol
Sex
Porn
Gambling

I found that at least one person is addicted to one of those items. anyone want to add to the list?
 
Don't you mean to say that everyone is at addicted to at least one thing?
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Anyway, since fat mass does not manifest out of nothing or out of nowhere, people who are overweight or even obese obviously have an excess in energy input considering their energy consumption. Certainly, metabolic diseases can have a serious effect that needs to be medically treated, because proper caloric intake may not be sufficient in those cases, but it would be hard to argue that 30% of Americans inherently suffer from metabolic diseases.

Insulin resistance is relatively easily caused by prolonged, improper sugar intake (refined kind and too much of it). That's why letting kids drink soda all the time is a really bad idea. Switching to complex carbohydrates (full grain products, starchy veg and roots will not wreak havoc with blood sugar levels) versus refined sugar products is quite doable. And hardly anybody would not be able to enjoy a piece of cake or a chocolate bar on occasion.

Getting some physical exercise is obviously advised, because the metabolic rate can be dramatically improved by SOME physical activity (other than the walk to the fridge at 3 am). But you know, I go to the mall and I see what folks eat: a burger, large fries, a tub of soda and then a donut. That can't go well.

I am totally convinced that 80% of people with weight issues could make a huge improvements by making just a few moderate changes in their lifestyles.

When I was in university I gained 50 pounds over the course of three years, because I was physically very inactive and because I my lifestyle was not exactly healthy. I was up late and I had to get up early every day. I grabbed food mostly on the go and I wasn't very choosey. I did lose that weight over 4 months for good. Because I wanted to lose it quickly, I did a diet (high protein, low carb, lots of swimming and bicycling and even running -- which I loathe). However, I have maintained my weight easily since by simply eating sensibly and by also getting a minimum of physical exercise. I don't diet, but I eat anything that I want to eat.

Last time I went to see movie ('Ratatouille,' if you must know) a very large (I'm being polite now) woman and her fat (still being polite) son of maybe 10 were sitting in front of me. The kid had his bucket of soda (Mom complained loudly it tasted "flat") and he had his tub of popcorn. This kid was was one nervous fellow. He could not sit still one second. I'm convinced his blood sugar level was through the roof. He was sipping from his soda every 5 seconds and he kept shoveling popcorn in his mouth until it was time to get a free refill. I was quite appalled by this spectacle. I don't understand how people can be so negligent when it comes to their kids!
 
I exercise to stay in decent shape, despite the horrible diet I have (love my junk & fast food, unfortunately). I did find weightloss pills to be a great pick-me-up (w/o using illegal drugs) when partying with lack of sleep in Vegas.
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I don't understand how people can be so negligent when it comes to their kids!




1. They don't know any better.
2. Even if they do, effecting alterations to their bad habits is enough of a challenge (that they fail at) ..and they take the easy route.
3. We're in a society that has bolstered and marketed convenience at any and all available sources. Elevators ..escalators ..fast food ..grab and go. For some reason it's some mystery that a given percentage of your population ISN'T going to have unfavorable outcomes within the environment. Obviously the environment isn't at fault. Perhaps we can double the methane levels and blame those who can't breath as well as being defective for not breathing in safer environments
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4. As you saw in your massive weight gain session, there are situations where even a sensible and anal teutonic can fall victim to his/her environment. Now take someone who never comes out of a like environment (many of us ran ourselves ragged with work and child rearing in some illusion of "I want to do the best for them") and didn't care for ourselves in the process.

There are surely some who make willfully poor choices when it comes to this matter. For some ..it's merely that the demands on them don't allow them to cope with 'what they are' in favorable manners.

Who wants to engage in a scheduled exercise program when you're working 12 hour days for years on end filling the need to achieve? A couple of decades of that mentality will have anyone suffering from whatever their default state is in terms of physically apparent issues. It may be something as treatable as high blood pressure. It may be weight gain.

What did any of you thinner guys do in terms of "bad choices" that got you hypertensive? Are you an idiot dullard for falling victim to the condition? What weakness are you so vulnerable to that allowed this to develop? What are you doing now, in the aftermath of onset to fix it. Are you successful? Or have you resigned yourself to the total inability to master the problem?? Now I won't make fun of you for being hypertensive .....lots of people I know are hypertensive. I wish they had made better choices in their past ..

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I agree that obesity is a psychological problem just as much as it is physical. Some people just can not stop eating. They are addicted to food. After eating a large meal they get hungry again. Their stomachs are elongated and it's hard not to eat because they can get heartburn, which is easily treatable with.. food.

I know because I've been there. It's a horrible place to be. It's the usual story. 5'10, weighed 250 pounds. Dropped it down to 165 in a year. Over the course of the next two years, it's slowly crept back up to the point where I'm back at 216 pounds. It is a terrible place to be and I hate the vicious cycle of eating and eating and eating. It seems like I have no willpower as of late.
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There are others who weigh more than me and probably look worse, sure, but those people more likely have thyroid issues in addition to compulsive eating habits. I think obesity should be looked at as a disease like diabetes. Diabetic people generally aren't ridiculed, and I don't think obese people should be ridiculed like that either - they should have viable medical treatment options easily available to them.

But that's just preachy old fat me. When I get thin again I'll probably turn into a **** on this subject and make fun of fat people.
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The obesity problem is an unintended result of the capitalist system. Letting people compete to make food as cheap as possible is a good thing. But products also evolve in the system to sell as many units as possible. Science has found ways to increase sales by creating more hunger, by carefully choosing ingredients that digest quickly, leaving the body with a high insulin level.

One answer to the fatness problem is to never eat commercially made foods.
 
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