Other than the way it looks, No!
Weight Required to Balance Tires
- Thread starter The Critic
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when i got my tires mounted and balanced a few weeks ago they were commenting that i was one of the last of their customers to get lead wheel weights. CA is banning lead wheel weights on Jan 1, it is supposedly a $2500 per day fine if you have any lead wheel weights on the premises.
So what will they be using instead of lead now?
either aluminum or steel. theres a 3M system that i haven't looked at too deeply that i think uses stick on weights for everything.
Originally Posted By: Button
Just a heads up I had CS4's for 3 weeks & got rid of them because they would never balance & cause my steering wheel to bobble @ highway speeds.
It is a mistake to assume that balance is the only thing to cause the tire to shake. I bet the tires were balanced fine, but shook either due to being out of round or radial force variation (stiffer sidewall on one part of the tire & softer on another part). It took seven Goodyear TripleTred tires to find four round enough to run smoothly on my car, and all were balanced fine. They were just made egg-shaped.
Just a heads up I had CS4's for 3 weeks & got rid of them because they would never balance & cause my steering wheel to bobble @ highway speeds.
It is a mistake to assume that balance is the only thing to cause the tire to shake. I bet the tires were balanced fine, but shook either due to being out of round or radial force variation (stiffer sidewall on one part of the tire & softer on another part). It took seven Goodyear TripleTred tires to find four round enough to run smoothly on my car, and all were balanced fine. They were just made egg-shaped.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
CA is banning lead wheel weights on Jan 1, it is supposedly a $2500 per day fine if you have any lead wheel weights on the premises.
Does that apply to the vehicles that come in with lead weights, & they then take them off?
CA is banning lead wheel weights on Jan 1, it is supposedly a $2500 per day fine if you have any lead wheel weights on the premises.
Does that apply to the vehicles that come in with lead weights, & they then take them off?
no only when the tires are serviced. we are getting the 3m system. our sales rep gave me a sample of the weight material, its a composite thing. they are ALL stick on. wheels that take clip on weights get a thinner version.
Has anyone used a product called DynaBeads? Jim
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Has anyone used a product called DynaBeads? Jim
See
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1630526
Has anyone used a product called DynaBeads? Jim
See
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1630526
Thanks Carbon. Jim
The comment about the old 22.5 Semi Tires is out of place just due to weight of the assembly. It weighs so much that less than several ounces won't be seen under like 90.
The Crown Vic several years ago had a Spec of .02" out of round (approximately 20lbs of road force by a hunter 9700) and no more than 3 (or 3.5 ounces of weight) with no more than 2 ounces per side.
That spec still would not cure all as neither spec (or even the Hunter 9700) account for lateral runout to go with radial. So watch here too.
The reason for the weight issue is that as the tires were you will almost definitely have to rebalance as the tire wears as the tire is not uniform in DENSITY so even though you may were 1/16" of all the way around you wore more weight off one side then the other.
Watch for high weight totals.
Also if using the "Tape" weights behind the spokes you will generally use quite a bit more weight than on the bead seats just due to placement so allow for more there.
Good rule of thumb for tires is really
Car tires
No side to side variation in tread while spinning
Outside of that get a good tire to replace the bad one (remember if your rim is bent you have to fix that first)
Modern Pickup tires (Like an F150 not into the SD category)
really same as a car just allow up to 4 Oz of weight.
If you have Rack-N-Pinion stay at 18 Lbs road force if you have Haltenburger (like old fords with no idler arm), Parallelogram, or Drag Link setup then 25 lbs is just fine.
The Crown Vic several years ago had a Spec of .02" out of round (approximately 20lbs of road force by a hunter 9700) and no more than 3 (or 3.5 ounces of weight) with no more than 2 ounces per side.
That spec still would not cure all as neither spec (or even the Hunter 9700) account for lateral runout to go with radial. So watch here too.
The reason for the weight issue is that as the tires were you will almost definitely have to rebalance as the tire wears as the tire is not uniform in DENSITY so even though you may were 1/16" of all the way around you wore more weight off one side then the other.
Watch for high weight totals.
Also if using the "Tape" weights behind the spokes you will generally use quite a bit more weight than on the bead seats just due to placement so allow for more there.
Good rule of thumb for tires is really
Car tires
No side to side variation in tread while spinning
Outside of that get a good tire to replace the bad one (remember if your rim is bent you have to fix that first)
Modern Pickup tires (Like an F150 not into the SD category)
really same as a car just allow up to 4 Oz of weight.
If you have Rack-N-Pinion stay at 18 Lbs road force if you have Haltenburger (like old fords with no idler arm), Parallelogram, or Drag Link setup then 25 lbs is just fine.
I have a concern on a new car('10 Maxima). I bought after market wheels and had the OE tires(Goodyear Eagle RS-A) mounted on them. I only drove them a week before putting the OE wheels with winter tires on the car.
I took the a/m wheels back to the tire dealer and asked them to dial in the balance, as I could feel some(NOT a lot) of vibration through the seat, and a little through the steering wheel. Even though I am sure the wheels probably spun up zeros after balancing - I was still feeling the subtle shaking. I became concerned when I changed to the winter combination, I noticed that a couple of the wheels had huge rows(14) of 1/4 oz. tape weights next to the spokes, and wonder if that had anything to do with the vibration.
I politely asked them to take their time and try to see if they could check and get them to balance with less weight, possibly by spinning the tire on the wheel if necessary. I hope that is not an unreasonable request, as I paid close to $2K for the combination.
Well, I picked them yesterday, after 3 and a half weeks, and looked them over after I got home. One of the wheels now has a string of 16 tape weights about 8-9 inches long. I'm too PO'd to go back now and speak in a civil manner. I am under the(perhaps misinformed)impression that the preferred method of applying that much weight would be a larger and or thicker weight that would more precisely locate the weight to the desired location for proper balancing. I also find it hard to believe that there is not a wheel/tire relationship that should take less than that amount of weight.
I would appreciate knowing from more educated/experienced hands if my expectations are reasonable. FWIW, we are talking about 18" wheels and 245/45-18 tires. Also, the Michelins on the OE wheels took MUCH less weight and are very smooth.
I took the a/m wheels back to the tire dealer and asked them to dial in the balance, as I could feel some(NOT a lot) of vibration through the seat, and a little through the steering wheel. Even though I am sure the wheels probably spun up zeros after balancing - I was still feeling the subtle shaking. I became concerned when I changed to the winter combination, I noticed that a couple of the wheels had huge rows(14) of 1/4 oz. tape weights next to the spokes, and wonder if that had anything to do with the vibration.
I politely asked them to take their time and try to see if they could check and get them to balance with less weight, possibly by spinning the tire on the wheel if necessary. I hope that is not an unreasonable request, as I paid close to $2K for the combination.
Well, I picked them yesterday, after 3 and a half weeks, and looked them over after I got home. One of the wheels now has a string of 16 tape weights about 8-9 inches long. I'm too PO'd to go back now and speak in a civil manner. I am under the(perhaps misinformed)impression that the preferred method of applying that much weight would be a larger and or thicker weight that would more precisely locate the weight to the desired location for proper balancing. I also find it hard to believe that there is not a wheel/tire relationship that should take less than that amount of weight.
I would appreciate knowing from more educated/experienced hands if my expectations are reasonable. FWIW, we are talking about 18" wheels and 245/45-18 tires. Also, the Michelins on the OE wheels took MUCH less weight and are very smooth.
Michelin tires are super-premium constructed and therefor usually require much less weight to balance than most other brands. What brand of tire are mounted on your aftermarket rims? What brand are the rims? One of the 2 has serious quality control issues to require that much weight to balance.
GizzDad,
You asked me to comment - and I will.
I think your problem is the aftermarket wheels are not hub centered - that is, piloted on the center bore of the wheel.
So you need to get hub rings so the wheel will center on the hub.
Second, I can understand why you are a little upset at the guys who balanced the tires - but don't be. They did exactly what you told them. The problem is that they - and you - don't know about uniformity. I cover that here:
http://www.barrystiretech.com/unifandbal.html
I am going to guess that they didn't use a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force machine. This machine not only balances the assembly, but also measures the run out of the assembly - and that can be useful in determining if there is a problem with either the tire or the rim. If they didn't use such a machine, they can not know if the tire and wheel assembly is round - or not. I am going to guess it is, but it would be good to know.
Here's how to find out who has one:
http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm
You asked me to comment - and I will.
I think your problem is the aftermarket wheels are not hub centered - that is, piloted on the center bore of the wheel.
So you need to get hub rings so the wheel will center on the hub.
Second, I can understand why you are a little upset at the guys who balanced the tires - but don't be. They did exactly what you told them. The problem is that they - and you - don't know about uniformity. I cover that here:
http://www.barrystiretech.com/unifandbal.html
I am going to guess that they didn't use a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force machine. This machine not only balances the assembly, but also measures the run out of the assembly - and that can be useful in determining if there is a problem with either the tire or the rim. If they didn't use such a machine, they can not know if the tire and wheel assembly is round - or not. I am going to guess it is, but it would be good to know.
Here's how to find out who has one:
http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm
gizz if you park with your valve stem at a specific position, let's say 6 o'clock, then you can take note of what position any color tire dots are, or any other lettering for that matter, as well as the weights. Then as this trifecta of stuff gets moved or not moved you can see if the tire shop is doing what you ask. Take lots of digital pictures.
Thanks Capri!
Actually, I bought the wheels from Tire Rack, and they included the hub centric rings. No, the wheels were not balanced on the Hunter machine, and there are a couple of them locally - I may have to give that a try.
As to my other question - is a string of 16 weights really the best way to balance this assembly?
I should also note, these rims have TPMS, but I don't think that should be an issue.
Actually, I bought the wheels from Tire Rack, and they included the hub centric rings. No, the wheels were not balanced on the Hunter machine, and there are a couple of them locally - I may have to give that a try.
As to my other question - is a string of 16 weights really the best way to balance this assembly?
I should also note, these rims have TPMS, but I don't think that should be an issue.
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