We finally got some... 0W-8.

[ZeeOSix]

 

[Aston4]

The Corolla is the exception, not the rule, and as Zee noted, there would have been design accommodations made (like wider bearings) to facilitate the use of 0W-20. Though it's telling that it doesn't spec 0W-16 or 0W-8 like most other things Toyota at this point.

- GM has historically recommended M1 15W-50 in the Corvette if going to the race track, but 5W-30 for daily driving.
- Ford spec'd 5W-20 for the "regular" version of the Mustang GT, but 5W-50 for the same car, with the same engine, in "Track Pack" trim which had different thermal programming.
- The FCA SRT vehicles all spec 0W-40, while the non-SRT HEMI's all spec'd 5W-20 or 0W-20.

High performance track-oriented vehicles with limited production volume can be spec'd a greater safety margin with little penalty to the parent company's CAFE fees. Depending on power density, sump volume, oil cooling capacity and ultimately lubricant temperature measured during testing, the grade with sufficient margin is determined for these applications. When the manufacturer is only moving a few thousand, this really has little impact on CAFE penalties, and consumers are generally paying a premium for these vehicles anyway.

Daily driver oriented vehicles with high production volume are more likely to be spec'd less margin in order to increase CAFE and reduce the penalties/fees as much as possible. When you are moving hundreds of thousands of a powertrain, every little bit of fuel economy counts. This reduced margin is balanced by the use of coolant/oil heat exchanges (which also bring the oil up to temperature more quickly, improving fuel economy) and software-driven safety mechanisms that can reduce output in the event the oil gets above safe operating temperature.

There's probably no better example of this than the aforementioned Ford Mustang situation. The "Track Pack" version, that spec'd 5W-50, had a big oil cooler and could be readily tracked with no loss of performance. The "regular" version, which spec'd 5W-20, with the SAME engine, would readily go into limp mode (thermal castration) if pushed for too long, due to the oil temperature getting too high to provide adequate viscosity and lubrication. This highlights, quite handily, the compromise made by going with the lighter oil, and the mechanism employed to ensure that this was safe. This is because the vast majority of Mustang GT's sold would not be of the "Track Pack" variant and very few of them would ever see a racetrack, so it was a reasonable compromise.

 

[Aston4]

blaming "excessive ring gap" during assembly. lol. couldn't possibly be rings overheating and wearing out due to running water insteqd of oil.

Notice in the YT comments Austrailians weighing in saying they run 50 wt and have seen zero problems.

 

[OVERKILL]

blaming "excessive ring gap" during assembly. lol. couldn't possibly be rings overheating and wearing out due to running water insteqd of oil.

Notice in the YT comments Austrailians weighing in saying they run 50 wt and have seen zero problems.

I mean, I agree, 0W-20 is ridiculously thin for a car with such high specific output that might get tracked and this car being the exception rather than the rule as I noted, even with the assumption that they've made design accommodations, doesn't seem to have potentially mitigated other issues.

That said, Toyota has had some rather major issues recently (see: new Tundra's blowing up) so it may not simply be the oil being "too thin" either.

 

[Aston4]

Just had word this thread has come to the attention of some folks. Out of here. Bye

 

[ATex7239]

I’d just like to say that I had a great time reading the last few pages of this thread. It was a hoot.

 

[Patman]

FWIW I’m also a moderator on the largest Facebook group for the GR Corolla and there are hardly any people in the group who have had engine problems, despite it running 0w20 (which I agree is too thin and if I get one I will run 5w30) There are even quite a few guys who track their GRCs with 0w20 in there and have been ok. Take it for what it’s worth…

 

[walterjay]

This thread......all I can say is WOW

 

[ZeeOSix]

blaming "excessive ring gap" during assembly. lol. couldn't possibly be rings overheating and wearing out due to running water insteqd of oil.

Notice in the YT comments Austrailians weighing in saying they run 50 wt and have seen zero problems.

Video made it sound more like super knock event (LSPI), due to oil getting into the combustion chamber (due to excessive ring gap), vaporizing and causing ignition at the wrong time. If the piston squirters are over doing it (over flooding the piston/cylinder below), that could be a factor also.

 

[Aston4]

My question to you remains: where are the tens of thousands of cars that would have died early deaths if what you claim is true? This should have been — and would be — the public scandal of the century if legions of customers were actually losing engines way early. But they’re not…

https://www.reuters.com/default/us-...23 recalled,seize, leading to engine failure.

 

[ZeeOSix]

https://www.reuters.com/default/us-...23 recalled,seize, leading to engine failure.

Says "manufacturing defect in the engine crankshaft" ... so not oil related. I'm sure some 0W-8 of 0W-16 would have made it worse <sarcasm>.

 

[Aston4]

GM engines disintegrating
Toyota engines disintegrating
Ford engines disintegrating
Honda engines disintegrating
Kia engines disintegrating
Chrysler engines disintegrating
AMC (!) engines disintegrating
Hyundai engines disintegrating

Definitely not an oil issue.

 

[Aston4]

Says "manufacturing defect in the engine crankshaft" ... so not oil related. I'm sure some 0W-8 of 0W-16 would have made it worse <sarcasm>.

Crankshaft wasn't specially designed for water lubrication.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Crankshaft wasn't specially designed for water lubrication.

Doubt that's what they mean. "Manufacturing defect" means it wasn't manufactured as designed.

 

[Aston4]

Doubt that's what they mean. "Manufacturing defect" means it wasn't manufactured as designed.

Fascinating how everyone except VWAG, who has been, post manufacture, INCREASING their viscosity recommendations, isn't having these "manufacturing issues."

Odd how Australians that normally run 40-50wt oils aren't having any manufacturing issues either.

Hypothesis: VWAG knows removing the zinK is an evolving disaster, especially in water thin oils. Bumping viscosity a grade mitigates somewhat.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Pretty much every engine with a major mechanical problem is due to manufacturing defects - even the ones like Hyundai, Toyota and Honda in Australia using thicker oil (Google it). Some issues may be due to improper design, but the majority are due to manufacturing defects - non of which a higher oil viscosity is going to cure or prevent over time. If something can't be manufactured per the engineering drawings and specs, then it can have issues. The design could be perfect on paper, but if it can't be manufactured per the drawing and specs then that could turn into a big problem.

Most here know that thinner oil can result in more wear over time, and most here know that using too thin of oil in harsh use condition like track use or high stress like towing, etc could lead to major wear of even a failure. But those things don't happen on the streets with normal everyday driving conditions. Thinner oil in the everyday normal use conditions can cause more engine wear over time, but it's not going to "blow-up" or "disintegrate" engines.

 

[Patman]

Just had word this thread has come to the attention of some folks. Out of here. Bye

I thought you said goodbye? So why are you still posting here?

 

[ATex7239]

I thought you said goodbye? So why are you still posting here?

He just couldn’t deprive us of the enjoyment.

 

[OVERKILL]

I thought you said goodbye? So why are you still posting here?

I was more concerned about the apparent attention the thread hard garnered from CSIS, the FBI, DEA, DHS, CRA, IRS and of course MI6:

Just had word this thread has come to the attention of some folks. Out of here. Bye

 

[jkingrph]

I just picked up a quart of Pennzoil 0W-16 to use as a gun oil. My wife's car is a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis with 150,000 miles, and I think I will stick with full synthetic 10w-30