Water pressure booster pump?

[Cujet]

My new home in TN is up at 2100 feet elevation and the water pressure is about 40-45psi static and 20psi during use. Down to nil pressure if faucet is running and washing machine filling. Recently air in the lines and the resulting high flow rates highlighted how restrictive the system is.

Before spending big bucks on a booster pump, I wonder if one can overcome the restrictions. Or will it simply be unable to boost pressure/flow due to the restrictions?

Also, any suggestions on a pump? I have an outdoor location with power, near the water line. It is 1000 feet from the water meter.

Note: Pressure/flow is much better at 2AM, when neighbors are not consuming water.

I suppose I could purchase a Harbor Freight pump like this and try it. Cheap enough. Then move to a quality variable speed pump if I get good results. But I really hate doing things twice... Or make my own setup with small jet pump (like a shallow well pump) a check valve

and a well tank.

 

[Rand]

1000ft. How long is your run and what size?

 

[BrendanC]

My new home in TN is up at 2100 feet elevation and the water pressure is about 40-45psi static and 20psi during use. Down to nil pressure if faucet is running and washing machine filling. Recently air in the lines and the resulting high flow rates highlighted how restrictive the system is.

Before spending big bucks on a booster pump, I wonder if one can overcome the restrictions. Or will it simply be unable to boost pressure/flow due to the restrictions?

Also, any suggestions on a pump? I have an outdoor location with power, near the water line. It is 1000 feet from the water meter.

what material is your home plumbing and then the drop from the meter to the house? have you called the municipality to come verify flow through their meter? could have junk caught in it. water pressure booster should be the absolute last resort.

 

[Passport1]

I've been researching a booster pump for my beach house. The kitchen is on the top deck. In this picture it is ~30' high. The problem is in the summer when all the tourons (tourists and morons, local term) leave the beach at about 16/1700 and immediately take a shower. The water pressure drops to nill. Can't cook, wash anything, flush a toilet. Very annoying. Have talked to the county water service and they suggested a booster. My plumber says he gets dozens of calls about this but has never installed a pump.

I have skipped most of the summer at the beach and will return after the tourons leave.

 

[repairman54]

2x on calling the water Co. also, especially if your at the end of the line. Does it have pressure regulator near the meter ? They do go bad also. Water Co. could have a leak in the main that they don't know about either.

 

[Cujet]

The meter tap flows better, so the long run is part of the problem. Meter is 3/4 inch ID, I think. The 1000 foot 3/4 Pex run is small for sure. Difficult to replace, but possible. No regulator. House is Pex and I don't think the house is the issue, as it is much better at 2AM.

All of the neighbors have complained. For their complaints they got a new $30 monthly charge, for 'improvements' which never materialized.

Also of note, my last bill was $45, used 300 gallons. I am not there much. That's absurd.

There is a spring/seep fed pond nearby. Might be time to utilize that water source by drilling into the seep, it is easy to see where it lives. Unfortunately it is nearly dry at times. That or a 1000 foot deep well...

 

[BrendanC]

The meter tap flows better, so the long run is part of the problem. Meter is 3/4 inch ID, I think. The 1000 foot 3/4 Pex run is small for sure. Difficult to replace, but possible. No regulator. House is Pex and I don't think the house is the issue, as it is much better at 2AM.

All of the neighbors have complained. For their complaints they got a new $30 monthly charge, for 'improvements' which never materialized.

Also of note, my last bill was $45, used 300 gallons. I am not there much. That's absurd.

There is a spring/seep fed pond nearby. Might be time to utilize that water source by drilling into the seep, it is easy to see where it lives. Unfortunately it is nearly dry at times. That or a 1000 foot deep well...

1000’ of 3/4” is your issue. likely should be 1 1/4” to account for pressure drop. have the municipality verify their meter and a booster pump sounds like the only real option.

 

[Cujet]

1000’ of 3/4” is your issue. likely should be 1 1/4” to account for pressure drop. have the municipality verify their meter and a booster pump sounds like the only real option.

No question about that. But that's not the entirety of the issue. Daytime pressure and flow is much lower than the wee hours of the morning. I purchased 3 pressure gauges to monitor meter, house inlet and faucet. I'm pretty sure the municipality is unable or unwilling to provide adequate daytime flow. 40PSI just ain't nuff to overcome the restrictions.

 

[BrendanC]

40psi would be plenty if you didn’t have the restriction of 1000’ of 3/4 pex. likely type B

 

[Rand]

A buddy has one inch for a 50 ft run from a submerse well pump.

Are you positive it's not one inch PEX
3/4-in pex is only about .67 ID

Aprox 7/8" OD

That would be beyond tiny for a thousand foot run

 

[BrendanC]

A buddy has one inch for a 50 ft run from a submerse well pump.

Are you positive it's not one inch PEX
3/4-in pex is only about .67 ID

i had to re pull my main trucks to 1” to support both showers going at the same time. my master shower is 4.5GPM upstairs is the normal 2.5 GPM. you need 1 size up of Pex to equal normal rigid piping size ID.

 

[Cujet]

40psi would be plenty if you didn’t have the restriction of 1000’ of 3/4 pex. likely type B

Plenty for typical use and the average guy, maybe. However my FL house has a 3 stage Goulds waterpump set at 100PSI and only drops to 90 during full use of all 6 showerheads. The well tank accommodates any intermittent use so flushing is fine with no change. I enjoy the water pressure in the showers and the ability to wash the cars/trucks with adequate flow. 40 ain't great for that.

 

[Rand]

I'm not sure how much a booster pump would help unless you had a large tank
Even at near 0 psi backpressure only so much water going to flow through .67 inch diameter line over a thousand feet especially with frictional losses
Now if you had a 1.5" or 2" line...and the booster pump was just increasing the pressure that's a much bigger straw to suck from.

Note with a large pressure tank obviously you'd have more PSI for a while not sure if it keep up with your 9 shower head system for long though..

 

[Cujet]

I'm not sure how much a booster pump would help unless you had a large tank
Even at near 0 psi backpressure only so much water going to flow through .67 inch diameter line over a thousand feet especially with frictional losses
Now if you had a 1.5" or 2" line...and the booster pump was just increasing the pressure that's a much bigger straw to suck from.

Note with a large pressure tank obviously you'd have more PSI for a while not sure if it keep up with your 9 shower head system for long though..

The TN house only has single showerheads. Even then, the water flow and pressure is inadequate. 20PSI under use. If I were to guess, about 1 gal per min from the showerhead. The flow is so low, the 40 gal water heater will never run out of hot water.

 

[Rand]

The TN house only has single showerheads. Even then, the water flow and pressure is inadequate. 20PSI under use. If I were to guess, about 1 gal per min from the showerhead. The flow is so low, the 40 gal water heater will never run out of hot water.

putting in 1000ft of 1.25" pex is a partial solution since the 1.25" would flow up to 4x more water esp at your longer distance.
but you might still need a booster pump.

being on a second floor doesnt help either since you lose 0.433 psi per foot of elevation.

I'd probably start with a booster pump and tank and if you cant live with it put in a new water line.

3/4 pex has atrocious water friction losses over 1000ft not sure who would think that its a good idea.

Consult a professional, I am not

 

[Astro14]

Paging @burbguy82

 

[burbguy82]

The 1000 foot 3/4 Pex run is small for sure.

This is the issue. Full stop.

IPC states the minimum size of a water service pipe is 3\4" nominal pipe size. It does not spec what type of material. Galvanized flows more than copper, copper more than CPVC, CPVC more than pex.......all being 3\4 pipe size. That being said. If you really have a 3\4" water service pipe.....unless you have a really big pressure tank....IMO a booster will be a waste of money, and might actually be damaging to the pump due to cavitation and other factors.

3\4" pipe, would have been minimal to pass an inspection.

Many have already stated this condition already in this thread with pipe size and distance.

Typically, pex comes in a max of 300' rolls. Yes you can get it in longer, but run of the mill, max 300. It is more likely you have 10 100' rolls, with 8 couplings connecting them together, drastically reducing flow and increasing friction loss.

Honestly, If I were to have plumbing your house.....1000 ft away, at least a 2'' line would have been installed, 2'' bell end PVC minimum. Nowhere would there be 3\4'' pex. I recommend replacement of the line, if possible with a larger pipe, with no internal restriction, like PVC. Minimum 2 inch.

You can try the booster, but understand, sucking through a straw has consequences. As to a brand: Xylem\Goulds was my go to for booster pumps like what you would need and to feed machines like industrial granite cutting machines, etc. I suggest contacting them directly. Off the cuff, I would say you would get improvement, but not adequate.

https://www.xylem.com/siteassets/brand/goulds-water-technology/resources/manual/im102-web.pdf

Notice it states a water main with the same size as the inlet or larger.

 

[Cujet]

This is the issue. Full stop.

It is more likely you have 10 100' rolls, with 8 couplings connecting them together, drastically reducing flow and increasing friction loss.

Interesting! I would not doubt that the builder cobbled together segments of Pex. And considering the quality of the workmanship here it's probably 20ea 50 foot sections . I've been shopping for 1000 foot rolls of larger Pex like 1 1/4 inch. Even so, I want more than 40psi, so may eventually do both the feed line replacement and the booster pump. Or put in my own well, configured my way. I am also giving serious thought to a simple tank system in the garage fed by what ever source I choose, with a pump to feed the house, making the pressure I want.

 

[burbguy82]

Interesting! I would not doubt that the builder cobbled together segments of Pex. And considering the quality of the workmanship here it's probably 20ea 50 foot sections . I've been shopping for 1000 foot rolls of larger Pex like 1 1/4 inch. Even so, I want more than 40psi, so may eventually do both the feed line replacement and the booster pump. Or put in my own well, configured my way. I am also giving serious thought to a simple tank system in the garage fed by what ever source I choose, with a pump to feed the house, making the pressure I want.

A tank system would work well. There are special requirements for tanks, so consult your local plumber. Typically residential plumbers will not know much about tank requirements, but industrial based guys will.

I suggested 2'' pvc for cost to benefit. You will find going with a larger than 1 inch line, costs in pex are prohibitive, and fittings for future repair can be difficult to source. PVC repair parts are everywhere....food for thought. Using 2 in pvc to 2 inch pex for example, once you factor in tools\rental, and fittings, PVC is aprx 125% cheaper, and PVC has more flow.

I understand PSI is what you feel........but volume is what you actually are going for. 40 psi with enough volume will work, 80 psi with out volume, and you lose dynamic pressure real quick when more than one fixture is running. ....in the system overall.

Good luck.

 

[GON]

A buddy has one inch for a 50 ft run from a submerse well pump.

Are you positive it's not one inch PEX
3/4-in pex is only about .67 ID

Aprox 7/8" OD

That would be beyond tiny for a thousand foot run

Note:

3/4" PEX A will flow more water (less resistance) than 3/4" PEX B.

The type of PEX is critical in the flow of water based on the size of PEX.