Watched a documentary on OceanGate

[SC Maintenance]

see there is the problem, and should be regulated, and I am not a regulation person.

I disagree a bit. They clearly knew what they were doing was going to be a problem, at least all the engineering managers did - hence they quit.

Regulating the banks didn't stop sub-prime. Regulating firearms hasn't stopped criminals. All regulation does is slow down the good guys. The bad guys cheat anyways. Besides, who was going to write regulations around a sub that never should have been built.

 

[Pablo]

I disagree a bit. They clearly knew what they were doing was going to be a problem, at least all the engineering managers did - hence they quit.

Regulating the banks didn't stop sub-prime. Regulating firearms hasn't stopped criminals. All regulation does is slow down the good guys. The bad guys cheat anyways. Besides, who was going to write regulations around a sub that never should have been built.

You have a point no doubt absolutely in fact.

There are governing bodies for submersibles

 

[gmt800lover]

So over-regulation isn't a thing? I can assure you, absolutely it is. With many unintended consequences.

I think we can all easily agree when it comes to paying passengers in slightly dangerous situations, well yes, meaningful strict regulations required.

Oh I can agree that it is. But it doesn't mean that everything will be fine without proper regulations in certain industries like air travel, food, etc.

Things could really start to fall apart before too long.

 

[goblin]

...

Regulating the banks didn't stop sub-prime. Regulating firearms hasn't stopped criminals. All regulation does is slow down the good guys. The bad guys cheat anyways. Besides, who was going to write regulations around a sub that never should have been built.

I beg to disagree.

- DE-regulating the banks caused sub-prime. There were a number of changes made a few years prior that allowed it to happen.

- I will not start on firearms, as I don't want the thread to be locked within two posts. I'll just submit that even if we agree that the bad guys are an incompressible part of the equation (for the sake of discussion, I don't think they are but - ok), applying simple sanity in this field would weed out the stupid bad guys, the wanabee bad guys, the depressed good, neutral and bad guys, the suicidal ones of all denominations, and leave it to only the smart bad guys to find workarounds and arm themselves to do nefarious stuff.

And this would be weeding out A LOT of dangerous access, as most of the time the issues boil down to those.

 

[Rand]

Just watched the netflix doc. It was interesting but could have been 45-60m

The best part were the interviews/point of views of all the former employees as all this went down over years...
and the fact that Rush was not a nice guy. (understatement)

 

[OVERKILL]

I disagree a bit. They clearly knew what they were doing was going to be a problem, at least all the engineering managers did - hence they quit.

Regulating the banks didn't stop sub-prime. Regulating firearms hasn't stopped criminals. All regulation does is slow down the good guys. The bad guys cheat anyways. Besides, who was going to write regulations around a sub that never should have been built.

Better regulation would have prevented Fukushima.

Regulation isn't good or bad, but it's often woefully misguided, like recent firearms regulation in Canada, which is driven not by data but by optics.

 

[Pablo]

Fukushima is interesting

I mean the boss was just reading me an article at a beach state park. Clown parks below high tide car washes out to sea

The proposal may be regulation to ban all cars on the beach. Or do nothing. Or ban parking below high tide zones

 

[Slick3914]

Rush clearly had no concept of risk or respect for the lives of others.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Better regulation would have prevented Fukushima.

Regulation isn't good or bad, but it's often woefully misguided, like recent firearms regulation in Canada, which is driven not by data but by optics.

I am sure there were countless regulations around Fukushima. Just not the right ones which I guess was my point.

Deep sea submersibles are pretty obscure. Do we really need to regulate such a tiny segment. Caveat Emptor is a thing.

 

[Pablo]

I am sure there were countless regulations around Fukushima. Just not the right ones which I guess was my point.

Deep sea submersibles are pretty obscure. Do we really need to regulate such a tiny segment. Caveat Emptor is a thing.

Like look at that Rush dude and say no frogging way!!

 

[SC Maintenance]

Like look at that Rush dude and say no frogging way!!

Go to Kennedy space Center and look at the Mercury capsules. If you put 4 wheels on them they would not let you push it down the street today. Yet it went to space on top of a giant bomb.

 

[Pablo]

Go to Kennedy space Center and look at the Mercury capsules. If you put 4 wheels on them they would not let you push it down the street today. Yet it went to space on top of a giant bomb.

Yeah but that wasn't 4000 meters under the ocean

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yeah but that wasn't 4000 meters under the ocean

Ok, so who regulates 4000m dives in international waters?

 

[Pablo]

Ok, so who regulates 4000m dives in international waters?

UNKNOWN.

Location of vessel registry.

They did keep repeating there is no classification of carbon fiber hulled submersibles. I mean, there might be a reason for this. As in there is no classification for paper maché hulled submersibles.

 

[goblin]

It

Go to Kennedy space Center and look at the Mercury capsules. If you put 4 wheels on them they would not let you push it down the street today. Yet it went to space on top of a giant bomb.

T'was designed by smart people who worked together and mostly listened to each other's input.
And had to weed out an excess of candidates rather than running after individual clients.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It

T'was designed by smart people who worked together and mostly listened to each other's input.
And had to weed out an excess of candidates rather than running after individual clients.

So who regulated them?

 

[SC Maintenance]

I mean, there might be a reason for this. As in there is no classification for paper maché hulled submersibles.

I think that’s what I said in #41.

 

[Pablo]

I think that’s what I said in #41.

Bingo! You did

 

[Starving Electrician]

I beg to disagree.

- DE-regulating the banks caused sub-prime. There were a number of changes made a few years prior that allowed it to happen.

- I will not start on firearms, as I don't want the thread to be locked within two posts. I'll just submit that even if we agree that the bad guys are an incompressible part of the equation (for the sake of discussion, I don't think they are but - ok), applying simple sanity in this field would weed out the stupid bad guys, the wanabee bad guys, the depressed good, neutral and bad guys, the suicidal ones of all denominations, and leave it to only the smart bad guys to find workarounds and arm themselves to do nefarious stuff.

And this would be weeding out A LOT of dangerous access, as most of the time the issues boil down to those.

It wasn't deregulation that caused the subprime mortgage crisis. It was actually regulations that did. Regulation in the sense sub prime loans were g9vernment subsidized so the bank saw home loans as what the government made them low risk, free money loans because if the borrower defaulted the government (read as American tax payers) footer the bill. So the bank gave out sub prime loans like candy.

So if the government would have stayed out of it banks would have done proper risk assessments on borrowers instead of. I dont care that you're an in and out of a job convicted felon have some money because I get paid either way. It wasn't an issue of de-regulating it was an issue of the government being terrible at everything.

 

[OVERKILL]

I am sure there were countless regulations around Fukushima. Just not the right ones which I guess was my point.

It was exempt from certain regulations that applied to newer plants due to "grandfathering". This was at least in part due to the fact that their Nuclear Safety Commission was comprised of the plant operators and not an arms-length independent regulatory body comprised of SME's like is the case elsewhere.

Deep sea submersibles are pretty obscure. Do we really need to regulate such a tiny segment. Caveat Emptor is a thing.

I mean, it's the "this coffee is hot" level of stupid, right? The risk should have been obvious, and the same applies to recreational space travel. These are not mature industries with a body of test data and established processes like conventional air travel for example, which has an extremely low rate of incidence, given the number of flights per day. These are niche industries with bespoke products, failure is inevitable.

As I said, regulation isn't inherently good or bad. The purpose is to usually prevent known failures by leveraging known solutions, enforced by an agency that's supposed to be an expert on the subject. Far too often however, these bodies are hijacked by special interest groups or folks with an agenda who then produce regulatory framework that doesn't serve the purpose of increasing safety and instead just acts as a barrier into the space and slowing progress, often at great cost. Or, in the case of firearms regulation in Canada, preys on public ignorance and fear to advance non-solutions so that an agency can claim they are "doing something" while railroading people that are guaranteed to be compliant. Leaving the hard task of going after the criminals to someone else to deal with. This is made brutally obvious when the people running these orgs don't even know the existing laws and regulations.