Hermann
Site Donor 2023
My dad was a Havoline man mostly because it was 2¢ cheaper at WalMart. My dad's dad, used the used motor oil, from my dad's company car in his Farmall tractors.
Was Your Dad or Granddad a Believer in Non-Detergent Motor Oil?
- Thread starter john_pifer
- Start date
Theory is that the **** sinks to the bottom of the crankcase vs keep in circulation.
With a filter, caught by.
Dunno, Im not an oil engineer, I just sell and deliver the stuff.
Air compressors still spec 30wt ND
Some used to say that detergent oils would foam under hard use, or whatever, so don't use them in hi-po engines. Others said break in your engine with non-detergent and run it on detergent.
Everyone was an expert; situation normal.
Everyone was an expert; situation normal.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Never saw anything but Amalie 30 at parents/grandparents place …
Eventually there was Exxon Uniflo and other MG’s at the gas stations - but that did not matter
Eventually there was Exxon Uniflo and other MG’s at the gas stations - but that did not matter
The really high operating temps of an air compressor are said to destroy detergents and cause foaming. Plus there’s no exploding going on by the piston so there’s not much to dirty the oil, just heat degradation
As stated already, air compressors are a different environment free of combustion by-products and fuel dilution. You treat it more like a glorified gear oil.
Detergents are acid neutralizers designed to isolate and neutralize acidic contaminates to prevent oxidation and sludge formation to begin with. What particles are there and suspended will drain out with the oil rather than settling in the engine and compounding with each interval. I've pulled the pan on several Model A engines. Only one was run with a detergent oil (Valvoline VR1 10W-30) and it was clean. Only a light film of residue in the pan. The others, on ND oil, had sludge everywhere. One of them was pulled due to rod knock. (babbit bearings were trash) The pan was completely full of sludge almost to the crankshaft. The rod dippers were dipping in little valleys in the sludge, two of which were completely clogged with no oil getting to the bearings. (hence, trashed) The rings were coked and stuck and very little oil was getting to the valvetrain. The worst part though, the owner stated "Oh well it's been 10 years since I've opened it up. That's to be expected. It just needs an overhaul."
Had a local scca shop owner who wasn't that old try to tell me that detergent motor oil will "attack bearings." I told him if that's the case then how do so many spec series race cars like spec miata go years without rebuilds? I also have a local guy who is 84 and does a good job repairing lawn mowers. He swears high octane burns up valves, and swears that synthetic oil is the death of anything automotive and lawn equipment related. My manual for my Briggs&Strattons specifically recommends synthetic above 70F as conventional oil may exhibit extra oil consumption. The guy swears that ONLY a straight 30w should be used in lawn mowers.
- Joined
- May 31, 2024
- Messages
- 509
Don't remember either grandpa saying anything about oil over the years, dad will admit he isn't mechanically inclined so no oil preference except he tended to stick with one oil over the life of the vehicle. Remember Pennzoil yellow bottle went in the Plymouth/Chyrsler's and Castrol 20w50 in the Festiva's. My gpa's were known to trade cars/trucks/tractors on a whim so probably why oil's never really mattered. That gene is sorta terrible when you can't scratch it 
My dad was a great believer in cheapest oil he could find. What it said on the can was irrelevant.
And seems like he always had a smoking oil burner.
Not sure about my grandpa. We were too busy with electric motors and stuff
And seems like he always had a smoking oil burner.
Not sure about my grandpa. We were too busy with electric motors and stuff
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
Sounds like BITOG. There, I said it for you.
Not sure if he's still around but a guy had a blog many years ago called going faster. In the early 90's he worked at a parts store. He had an old guy come in and buy 5 quarts at $1 a quart. Barely two days later the old man returned with the oil. Apparently a place down the street had a sale. So he drained the oil with ten miles on it and brought it back for a refund. The old man was irked that the parts store wouldn't refund oil with only ten miles on it.
Making me feel old now!
My grandparents were born in the late 50s/early60s so they more than likely bought cars that suggested multigrade detergent oils. My great grandfather was a bodyman and I’m sure if I asked him the ND/Regular question I would’ve got a whole conversation but he died in 2019
My dad was born in 1931 and worked his entire career (after the Navy) for Phillips Petroleum Company (Phillips 66). He used non detergent in lawn equipment and Trop Artic 10w40 in his cars and truck. He also ran high octane Phillips 66 “Flight Fuel” in everything. His fuel was free for many years working at the Phillips Petroleum tank farm with a huge distribution warehouse supplying fuel, oil, tires, and service & maintenance items for their full service fuel stations. The warehouse stock came in by rail car. The NASCAR teams picked up their Phillips 66 gear oil. Apparently all the teams at least around Charlotte NC preferred their gear oil. With the onset of stand alone tire stores and oil change businesses in the 80s, the full service fuel stations went away. That giant warehouse remains empty to this day. Phillips sold the facility to Kinder Morgan Inc.
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
What I learned years ago in autoshop class in school was this...
Oil filter was invented in 1923 by Purolator, but didn’t become mainstream in cars until the mid 1950s. Some automobiles, such as the Volkswagen Beetle, didn’t start using oil filters until the 1970s.
Cars all finally started using oil filters because:
*Oil change intervals became longer (the longer the oil change interval, the dirtier the oil becomes)
*Engine build tolerances became tighter
*Engines became faster revving
So oil filters became necessary in the 1970s. By the mid 1970s, spin-on full-flow oil filters were common on:
All US Cars
Most European Cars
Most Japanese Cars
Non-detergent oil was (and still is) best for engines that don't have oil filters [old cars (many pre 70s cars, all pre 50s cars) old tractors, old rototillers and lawnmowers]. I don't know if newer rototillers and lawn mowers have oil filters now?
If the engine has an oil filter use detergent oil. If it doesn't have an oil filter use non-detergent oil.
The reason you want a non-detergent oil in an engine that doesn't have an oil filter is you want the contaminents to settle out of the oil and not keep recirculating because there's no filter to remove them.
The reason you want a detergent oil in an engine that has an oil filter is you want contaminents to stay suspended in the oil so the filter can remove them.
Oil filter was invented in 1923 by Purolator, but didn’t become mainstream in cars until the mid 1950s. Some automobiles, such as the Volkswagen Beetle, didn’t start using oil filters until the 1970s.
Cars all finally started using oil filters because:
*Oil change intervals became longer (the longer the oil change interval, the dirtier the oil becomes)
*Engine build tolerances became tighter
*Engines became faster revving
So oil filters became necessary in the 1970s. By the mid 1970s, spin-on full-flow oil filters were common on:
All US Cars
Most European Cars
Most Japanese Cars
Non-detergent oil was (and still is) best for engines that don't have oil filters [old cars (many pre 70s cars, all pre 50s cars) old tractors, old rototillers and lawnmowers]. I don't know if newer rototillers and lawn mowers have oil filters now?
If the engine has an oil filter use detergent oil. If it doesn't have an oil filter use non-detergent oil.
The reason you want a non-detergent oil in an engine that doesn't have an oil filter is you want the contaminents to settle out of the oil and not keep recirculating because there's no filter to remove them.
The reason you want a detergent oil in an engine that has an oil filter is you want contaminents to stay suspended in the oil so the filter can remove them.
Last edited:
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
On a related topic... Can you switch an old car engine that has an oil filter from non-detergent oil to detergent oil? The real question is should you? No! Defineately NOT!
If you switch from non-detergent to detergent it will loosen up old varnish/contaminent deposits that will release particles and chunks into your oil, possibly faster than the oil filter can clean it up, and/or more than the filter's capacity. This can damage or destroy the engine.
For a real life example. My autoshop instructor's father owned ten year old 1950s car that had an oil filter, but that car had non-detergent oil in it the initial 10 years of it's life. Then in the 1960s just before their family was to go on a road trip vacation from WA to CA, he changed the motor oil from non-detergent to detergent oil. Yes he also changed the oil filter.
They travelled 250 miles and then the motor broke down. A later autopsy revealed many chunks of varnish (loosened by the detergent oil) lodged in the bearings, which were destroyed.
If the car had continued using non-detergent oil, that varnish would have stayed harmlessly stuck to whatever surfaces it originally settled on. So no problem would have occurred.
Alternatively, if the car had used detergent oil its entire life, then there would not have been any signifigant deposits. So no problem would have occurred.
This is a perfect example of why many old timers feared putting detergent oil in their old high mileage cars (that had previously used non-detergent oil). It was a valid fear.
It's also a perfect example of the risks of cleaning an engine by using a higher level of detergent. I understand that there's some benefits of cleaning, but there's also risks that are often overlooked. Using Valvoline R&P to clean an engine is a risk.
If you switch from non-detergent to detergent it will loosen up old varnish/contaminent deposits that will release particles and chunks into your oil, possibly faster than the oil filter can clean it up, and/or more than the filter's capacity. This can damage or destroy the engine.
For a real life example. My autoshop instructor's father owned ten year old 1950s car that had an oil filter, but that car had non-detergent oil in it the initial 10 years of it's life. Then in the 1960s just before their family was to go on a road trip vacation from WA to CA, he changed the motor oil from non-detergent to detergent oil. Yes he also changed the oil filter.
They travelled 250 miles and then the motor broke down. A later autopsy revealed many chunks of varnish (loosened by the detergent oil) lodged in the bearings, which were destroyed.
If the car had continued using non-detergent oil, that varnish would have stayed harmlessly stuck to whatever surfaces it originally settled on. So no problem would have occurred.
Alternatively, if the car had used detergent oil its entire life, then there would not have been any signifigant deposits. So no problem would have occurred.
This is a perfect example of why many old timers feared putting detergent oil in their old high mileage cars (that had previously used non-detergent oil). It was a valid fear.
It's also a perfect example of the risks of cleaning an engine by using a higher level of detergent. I understand that there's some benefits of cleaning, but there's also risks that are often overlooked. Using Valvoline R&P to clean an engine is a risk.
Last edited:
Lube distributor still exist though. It's what I do. We go through ~40-80,000lbs of oil a week.
Similar threads
