War in Ukraine
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What's the big deal about Russia taking land back that used to be theirs anyway ?
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What's the big deal about Russia taking land back that used to be theirs anyway ?
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
What's the big deal about Russia taking land back that used to be theirs anyway ?
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
I think Russia's military is all show and no go. Didn't they almost got their [censored] handed to them by Germany in WWII?
Germany, and everyone else, thought the same thing after the Winter War. And no, they didn't nearly get their [censored] handed to them.
I think Russia's military is all show and no go. Didn't they almost got their [censored] handed to them by Germany in WWII?
Germany, and everyone else, thought the same thing after the Winter War. And no, they didn't nearly get their [censored] handed to them.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Yes it was. But it was a part of the USSR. Not Russia. And you really can't call the USSR a country.
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Yes it was. But it was a part of the USSR. Not Russia. And you really can't call the USSR a country.
I will just put my 2C into this since we share a long stretch of border with Ukraine.
Let me put it this way: the only good things that ever came out of Ukraine are the Antonov 225 and the ukrainian pepper vodka.
At the moment they are at the bottom of the pit and they start digging even more, they are flat broke, no economy what so ever with a huge agricultural potential but still unable to produce enough to feed it's own people. They DO NOT CARE about what the EU wants...they just want to join for hand me downs and that's it. The same can be said about the Republic of Moldova.
Corruption is a form of art over there and you have to bribe people left and right if you want to do anything. The amount of smuggling at our border with them is colossal starting with small time cigarettes and booze and finishing with guns and drugs so I think it is fair to say it's like Europe's Mexico.
They depend on Russian gas and they ran up a big tab and now they refuse to pay so if I'd be pistoff too if I was Putin, not to mention they kinda "forgot" to pay other people too...they owe us about 580 mil for about 30 years now but they seem in no hurry to pony up the cash so forgive me for not considering them trust worthy.
As for the military side of the story...let's not kid our selfs, if the Russians desire they can take Ukraine in under a week as only about 40% of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have received the proper amount of training.
Let me put it this way: the only good things that ever came out of Ukraine are the Antonov 225 and the ukrainian pepper vodka.
At the moment they are at the bottom of the pit and they start digging even more, they are flat broke, no economy what so ever with a huge agricultural potential but still unable to produce enough to feed it's own people. They DO NOT CARE about what the EU wants...they just want to join for hand me downs and that's it. The same can be said about the Republic of Moldova.
Corruption is a form of art over there and you have to bribe people left and right if you want to do anything. The amount of smuggling at our border with them is colossal starting with small time cigarettes and booze and finishing with guns and drugs so I think it is fair to say it's like Europe's Mexico.
They depend on Russian gas and they ran up a big tab and now they refuse to pay so if I'd be pistoff too if I was Putin, not to mention they kinda "forgot" to pay other people too...they owe us about 580 mil for about 30 years now but they seem in no hurry to pony up the cash so forgive me for not considering them trust worthy.
As for the military side of the story...let's not kid our selfs, if the Russians desire they can take Ukraine in under a week as only about 40% of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have received the proper amount of training.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
For a couple of centuries. But Ukraine was an independent country before Peter I. In the 10th and 11th century, it was the largest and strongest in Europe till it fell apart in 1132. Since then, till 1991, it was always under foreign thumb. At times under more than one at the same time.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
For a couple of centuries. But Ukraine was an independent country before Peter I. In the 10th and 11th century, it was the largest and strongest in Europe till it fell apart in 1132. Since then, till 1991, it was always under foreign thumb. At times under more than one at the same time.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
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Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Yes it was. But it was a part of the USSR. Not Russia. And you really can't call the USSR a country.
Yes you can. Being that it was run from Moscow, and the various SSRs, unlike the states that make up the US, couldn't do *anything* on their own.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Yes it was. But it was a part of the USSR. Not Russia. And you really can't call the USSR a country.
Yes you can. Being that it was run from Moscow, and the various SSRs, unlike the states that make up the US, couldn't do *anything* on their own.
What about the U.S. imposing sanctions on Russia ?
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Yes it was. But it was a part of the USSR. Not Russia. And you really can't call the USSR a country.
Yes you can. Being that it was run from Moscow, and the various SSRs, unlike the states that make up the US, couldn't do *anything* on their own.
I won't argue against the USSR being controlled from Moscow. But there was different governments or dictators across the USSR. And for instance, the invasion of both Hungary and Czechoslovakia was because of elections choosing the wrong goverments from Moscow's point of view or from the existing governments falling due to revolution.
DDR last leader was also Eric Honecker. Not Mikhail Gorbachev
All because they at least on paper. was Different states
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: shDK
The Big deal is
1 currently they are trying to take land that was never a part of Russia
2 if you could take back land because it used to be yours. All of Europe would be one big barrel of gunpowder waiting to go off. And The UK Spain and France could all demand back parts of north America.
Wasn't Ukraine part of the Soviet Union at one time ?
Yes it was. But it was a part of the USSR. Not Russia. And you really can't call the USSR a country.
Yes you can. Being that it was run from Moscow, and the various SSRs, unlike the states that make up the US, couldn't do *anything* on their own.
I won't argue against the USSR being controlled from Moscow. But there was different governments or dictators across the USSR. And for instance, the invasion of both Hungary and Czechoslovakia was because of elections choosing the wrong goverments from Moscow's point of view or from the existing governments falling due to revolution.
DDR last leader was also Eric Honecker. Not Mikhail Gorbachev
All because they at least on paper. was Different states
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What about the U.S. imposing sanctions on Russia ?
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
They know that launching nukes would be suicide for them. As soon as we caught a whiff of a nuclear launch, our own missiles would be in the air. Their leadership may be corrupt and expansionist, but they are not stupid. They are not going to have their own country turned into a glass-bottom parking lot unless they are SERIOUSLY threatened.
Sanctions are really the only solution that makes sense, IMO. As much as it burns me to see a regime like Putin's running amock, I don't think we have any interests in the region that would justify the costs and risks of a(nother) shooting war.
What about the U.S. imposing sanctions on Russia ?
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
They know that launching nukes would be suicide for them. As soon as we caught a whiff of a nuclear launch, our own missiles would be in the air. Their leadership may be corrupt and expansionist, but they are not stupid. They are not going to have their own country turned into a glass-bottom parking lot unless they are SERIOUSLY threatened.
Sanctions are really the only solution that makes sense, IMO. As much as it burns me to see a regime like Putin's running amock, I don't think we have any interests in the region that would justify the costs and risks of a(nother) shooting war.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What about the U.S. imposing sanctions on Russia ?
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
They know that launching nukes would be suicide for them. As soon as we caught a whiff of a nuclear launch, our own missiles would be in the air. Their leadership may be corrupt and expansionist, but they are not stupid. They are not going to have their own country turned into a glass-bottom parking lot unless they are SERIOUSLY threatened.
Sanctions are really the only solution that makes sense, IMO. As much as it burns me to see a regime like Putin's running amock, I don't think we have any interests in the region that would justify the costs and risks of a(nother) shooting war.
I agree.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What about the U.S. imposing sanctions on Russia ?
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
They know that launching nukes would be suicide for them. As soon as we caught a whiff of a nuclear launch, our own missiles would be in the air. Their leadership may be corrupt and expansionist, but they are not stupid. They are not going to have their own country turned into a glass-bottom parking lot unless they are SERIOUSLY threatened.
Sanctions are really the only solution that makes sense, IMO. As much as it burns me to see a regime like Putin's running amock, I don't think we have any interests in the region that would justify the costs and risks of a(nother) shooting war.
I agree.
Diplomats/back room deals will settle this. Some of Ukraine will go back to Russia.
The sooner the better.
The sooner the better.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Remember when the US stole Texas from Mexico? Probably not.
No I don't remember that because it never happened. Texas fought a war of independence from Mexico. They were a separate republic for about 10 years, then petitioned to join the United States.
Remember when the US stole Texas from Mexico? Probably not.
No I don't remember that because it never happened. Texas fought a war of independence from Mexico. They were a separate republic for about 10 years, then petitioned to join the United States.
Quote:
What's the big deal about Russia taking land back that used to be theirs anyway ?
Thinking Native Americans could relate.
Clear to me that Putin is working to recreate/rebuild the USSR. And don't think other countries surrounding the Ukraine aren't sweating this out either. Obvious to me that much of the of eastern Ukraine uprising now is being directly supported by Putin and Russia. Bottom line, Putin is megalomaniac.
What's the big deal about Russia taking land back that used to be theirs anyway ?
Thinking Native Americans could relate.
Clear to me that Putin is working to recreate/rebuild the USSR. And don't think other countries surrounding the Ukraine aren't sweating this out either. Obvious to me that much of the of eastern Ukraine uprising now is being directly supported by Putin and Russia. Bottom line, Putin is megalomaniac.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What's the big deal about Russia taking land back that used to be theirs anyway ?
Well this is why the Europeans fought each other pretty much none stop from the time the Roman empire fell to 1945 and we supplanted their national armies with NATO.
That line of thinking causes all sorts of problems.
What's the big deal about Russia taking land back that used to be theirs anyway ?
Well this is why the Europeans fought each other pretty much none stop from the time the Roman empire fell to 1945 and we supplanted their national armies with NATO.
That line of thinking causes all sorts of problems.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What about the U.S. imposing sanctions on Russia ?
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
They know that launching nukes would be suicide for them. As soon as we caught a whiff of a nuclear launch, our own missiles would be in the air. Their leadership may be corrupt and expansionist, but they are not stupid. They are not going to have their own country turned into a glass-bottom parking lot unless they are SERIOUSLY threatened.
Sanctions are really the only solution that makes sense, IMO. As much as it burns me to see a regime like Putin's running amock, I don't think we have any interests in the region that would justify the costs and risks of a(nother) shooting war.
Pretty much, its not like he is rolling into Poland.
Anyway the US populace doesn't have the stomach for a real war, you can't kick around the Russian military as easily as we did in the sandbox, the Russians actually have a real half way decent army, the kind the US Army hasn't fought since Korea.
Historically the Russian military is always viewed poorly but they do tend to perform well when pressed and allowed to do so. Lets not forget that the Russians were responsible for defeating the Wehrmacht in WW2, causing 8 out of every 11 causalities sustained during the war.
Western military circles are in love with this fantasy of fast mobile elite forces overcoming all obstacles and put the Germans up on a pedestal for it. But that very rarely translates to victory.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What about the U.S. imposing sanctions on Russia ?
Doesn't seem like a good idea being that they have nuclear missiles pointed at us.
They know that launching nukes would be suicide for them. As soon as we caught a whiff of a nuclear launch, our own missiles would be in the air. Their leadership may be corrupt and expansionist, but they are not stupid. They are not going to have their own country turned into a glass-bottom parking lot unless they are SERIOUSLY threatened.
Sanctions are really the only solution that makes sense, IMO. As much as it burns me to see a regime like Putin's running amock, I don't think we have any interests in the region that would justify the costs and risks of a(nother) shooting war.
Pretty much, its not like he is rolling into Poland.
Anyway the US populace doesn't have the stomach for a real war, you can't kick around the Russian military as easily as we did in the sandbox, the Russians actually have a real half way decent army, the kind the US Army hasn't fought since Korea.
Historically the Russian military is always viewed poorly but they do tend to perform well when pressed and allowed to do so. Lets not forget that the Russians were responsible for defeating the Wehrmacht in WW2, causing 8 out of every 11 causalities sustained during the war.
Western military circles are in love with this fantasy of fast mobile elite forces overcoming all obstacles and put the Germans up on a pedestal for it. But that very rarely translates to victory.
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My friends parents are now instant Russians citizens as they live in the newly annexed area in Ukraine.
He was planning on sending to kids near Moscow for the summer with his wifes inlaws. He refuses to send kids let alone step foot himself in it. He is a Russian citizen.
He does not trust them.
He was planning on sending to kids near Moscow for the summer with his wifes inlaws. He refuses to send kids let alone step foot himself in it. He is a Russian citizen.
He does not trust them.
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