Wanting to make myself feel nice

[skate1968]

Hello all,

I want to buy another honda made before 1992. I've already been a long time "Fourth generation" civic owner. They have been both relatively easy and cheap to fix and maintain.

Is this a good idea? Am i really being cost efficient? Penny wise?

Living in Philadelphia, how concerned should i be about the availability of replacement parts for a 1991 honda civic? (as the 88 through 2009 D series engines are arguably interchangeable, i don't feel as though i need to be too concerned)

How concerned should i be about the likleyhood of finding a 1991 engine with a lot of life left in it?

Is my fear of OBD2 a healthy fear? Is OBD2 something that i should be afraid of? (The introduction of windows 7 transformed me from a computer "expert" to a complete idiot. And i'm still stinging from this -- "gun shy," so to speak.)

How much "peace of mind" should i be enjoying from being "grandfathered" under my states super lax, pre-1992, inspection regulations.

I know from experience that old hondas are reliable. I know that they are simple enough for a tax accountant like myself to fix.

People on this forum, other forums, at mechanic shops, the stealership, at CPA firms and in bars have been telling me that it's time I get a new car for several years. Now, as my car does have layer after layer of ducktape, jbweld, bandaids and rubber bands it is time.

Basically, i want to buy the car that i already own.

I'm also going to post this in the "Fourth generation civic" section of the "honda tech" forums.

[i'm still too immature to call myself "old [censored]" but i'm feel myself fast approaching]

 

[Scotty1981]

I really enjoy having the MM on my 8th Gen Civic, I'd hate to go back to the old system of logging miles and worrying about what was next maint. item to take care of. Now I just follow the MM and it is great to not have to worry about anything until that light comes on.

 

[The_Jeff]

Go for it. The best investment is the one you know. In fact I would go south for a rust free example. A car will last as long as you want it to last. The issue is the lack of "collectibility" for an econobox, and probably many drivers of cheap cars rack up the miles and need cheap cars. And maintain them cheaply. You probably want the proverbial old lady car. Hondas attract fans and you may have to pay dearly for one. I like saturn s-series for many similar reasons and someone on this board just found a creampuff old lady one with under 40k miles.

You still have feedback fuel control and fuel injection, but leaner computer programming, as they were not as concerned with NOx then. Equals great MPG. Also lighter weight bodies back then. The (arguable) peak of Japanese quality-- they were still trying. (Even if made in Ohio they're good.)

What is it about 1992 that wins you on inspections? The OBD-II mandate appeared in 1996. Many states (like Massachusetts) dumped any sort of emissions testing on 1995s and older just b/c they are such a small percentage of the on road fleet.

 

[ctrcbob]

I'm glad you've had good luck with pre 1992 Civics.

Not all Hondas are trouble free. I had a 1990 Accord EX, the best one they make, made in Marysville Ohio. This was the worse modern day car I've ever owned. (Purchased new). Only thing that did not go wrong was the engine. (Yes, it had a great engine).
Too many problems to list here, but what really burned my butt was the attitude of the dealers, who always made me feel that I was the only one to have that problem. "I'm sorry sir, but Hondas don't give problems", or "sorry sir but we have not been able to duplicate the problem." After keeping the car for 16 months, I traded for a Camry LE, which only saw the inside of a dealers shop once in 95k miles, for a loose sun visor.

I agree with you in that if you want an old Honda, most early problems will be fixed, and all you should do once you buy is to replace the timing belts and add fresh fluids.

 

[david_ES2]

Id probably not go for one that was made the first year of the generation, i think that kind goes for all cars.

 

[skate1968]

Originally Posted By: Scotty1981
I really enjoy having the MM on my 8th Gen Civic, I'd hate to go back to the old system of logging miles and worrying about what was next maint. item to take care of. Now I just follow the MM and it is great to not have to worry about anything until that light comes on.


Hi Scotty,

Appreciate your post.

I don't know even know what a MM is. So i am going to conclude that it is something that i am most probably not capable of fixing myself.

I know that even my mechanic has gotten frustrated with a "check engine" light coming on six months ago that is now preventing him from getting a car through inspection.

K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid.

I don't even want power windows.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I like saturn s-series for many similar reasons and someone on this board just found a creampuff old lady one with under 40k miles.



...that be me.

skate1968, good ones are out there, ya just have to be patient and "pounce" when it comes up.

 

[skate1968]

Hi eljefino,

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Go for it. The best investment is the one you know. ...A car will last as long as you want it to last. ...And maintain them cheaply.


Thank you!!!

Originally Posted By: eljefino
In fact I would go south for a rust free example.


Well i would go to the southwest!!

But i completely understand and appreciate what you're saying. And as i'm writing this the south is sounding more reasonable than the southwest.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
What is it about 1992 that wins you on inspections? The OBD-II mandate appeared in 1996. Many states (like Massachusetts) dumped any sort of emissions testing on 1995s and older just b/c they are such a small percentage of the on road fleet.


92 is obd1. and i understand 91s pass inspection easier.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I would avoid anything WITHOUT an "i" in the trim level! I recall Honda having base-model Civics with carbs until about 1990. My sister had one of the last carb's Accords, and yikes, that car had more vacuum lines than you would believe.

That car was a disaster...oddly, it was otherwise a high-option car with power everything, sunroof, pretty much everything but EFI and the automatic. It had various electrical problems from day one....and like most Hondas, was starting to rot. The engine blew up (seized up solid with no warning, I couldn't budge it with a 4' breaker bar) with about 145K. Three weeks after a new clutch went in.

 

[skate1968]

Hi CTRC,

Appreciate your post.

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
Not all Hondas are trouble free. I had a 1990 Accord EX, the best one they make, made in Marysville Ohio.

Too many problems to list here, but what really burned my butt was the attitude of the dealers, who always made me feel that I was the only one to have that problem.


I don't really know much anything about accords.

And i do hate the Honda stealerships. They basically told me that my car was unfixable before i got another fun filled 4 years out of it.

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
I agree with you in that if you want an old Honda, most early problems will be fixed, and all you should do once you buy is to replace the timing belts and add fresh fluids.


Agreed. Good point. If a seller can't show me a receipt for the replacement of a timing belt done at the correct time interval then i'll have to account for the cost of it's replacement when i decide if the car is a good buy.

 

[skate1968]

Thanks David ES2.

 

[skate1968]

Thanks TPitcher, appreciate your comments.

 

[skate1968]

Hi JarAxle,

Much appreciate your response.

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I would avoid anything WITHOUT an "i" in the trim level!


Not sure what you mean. Honda "SI"? meaning "si" as in the sportier models?

[not to be arrogant, or a wiseXXX, but being a long time member of 4rth gen civic forums i'm aware of several ways to mod, tune etc, etc stock models for more horse]

I'm really coming here first because i'm seeking wisdom from a somewhat older crowd (totally not meaning that in a bad way).

The younger ones on honda tech are wonderful for many many things. But they're often more interested in spending loads of time and money on their goal of running "the quarter in the low teens." ... or "lower" teens. (whadda i know)

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I recall Honda having base-model Civics with carbs until about 1990. My sister had one of the last carb's Accords, and yikes, that car had more vacuum lines than you would believe.


Jar, i had to think about that for a moment. i hadn't read or thought about "carbed" civics in ages.

one of the most common "mods" is to swap out the DPFI (dual point fuel injection) for MPFI (multi point fuel injection)

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
...The engine blew up (seized up solid with no warning, I couldn't budge it with a 4' breaker bar) with about 145K. Three weeks after a new clutch went in.

Ouch!

I must say that i am very fortunate as my car is now at a point where it is very drivable. But yet i know that any investment beyond a bit of JB weld is a complete waste.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, not Si...I mean LX-i or EX-i as opposed to LX or EX. (I admit that could have been a bit clearer.) As I posted earlier, I recall base-model Civics had carbuerated engines standard until something like 1990...the "i" models having EFI. (At least, that's how Accords seemed to work...my sister's EX was carb'd, her roommate's LX-i was EFI.)

"Ouch" seemed to describe that Accord pretty well! (Along with "junk", "money pit", "rotbox", "electrical catastrophe", and a lot of words that would get me banned here.) I forget how many times I had to go retrieve her "reliable" Honda with my "junky old American" Cadillac and trailer! (And man, was she steamed that the A/C in my Caddy worked perfectly, on its original R-12 charge!)

 

[skate1968]

Hi Jar,

Thanks for replying again.

A small, polite, respectful FYI, from myself, i've never heard of Civics being titled EX-i or LX-1. So i'm thinking that it might be just an Accord thing. But, of course, no biggie.

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I forget how many times I had to go retrieve her "reliable" Honda with my "junky old American" Cadillac and trailer! (And man, was she steamed that the A/C in my Caddy worked perfectly, on its original R-12 charge!)

Was just thinking about speaking with a mechanic 24 years ago.

"You can keep these newer cars," he said.

"I don't like them because they're too hard to fix."

So he, like yourself, i think, already knew how to keep an old American car running well. And there's much to be said for sticking with what you know.

 

[Vikas]

+ on avoiding carburated Hondas with jungle of vacuum hoses

 

[skate1968]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
+ on avoiding carburated Hondas with jungle of vacuum hoses


thanks Vikas!

But that's one smart decision that i owe entirely to dumb luck.

 

[artificialist]

I remember working on some early Acura models which had EFI, but still had mazes of vacuum operated devices. They weren't as bad as the carb engines, but they sure had a lot of extra stuff. Sterling cars had that too.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob

Not all Hondas are trouble free. I had a 1990 Accord EX, the best one they make, made in Marysville Ohio. This was the worse modern day car I've ever owned. (Purchased new). Only thing that did not go wrong was the engine. (Yes, it had a great engine).


Sounds like the flip side to our Accord, also a 1990 except it was a DX. Engine turned into a serious oil-burner by about 50,000 miles, and made clouds of blue smoke. Lots of electrical issues and it would never start in the winter if the temperature was below about -10 degrees. That's a heavy car to be pushing out of the way because it doesn't start and you have to take one of the other cars, which as always fired right up no matter how cold it was.

 

[Jarlaxle]

That sounds like my sister's Accord! She scorned my Caddy (all American cars, actually), but was quick enough to ask if I could use it to retrieve her Honda when it wouldn't start! Coldest I ever tried was about -15 (central Maine in February), but the engine (Qjet on a 425, ~140,000 badly-neglected miles) fired easily.