"wait, i have to get an oil filter"

cheeks · Mar 23, 2003

Speaking of "deer in the headlights stare", how many of you have scared off people you encounter at AutoZone or Wal-Mart when you say "don't buy the Fram", or "why are you buying 20w50 for your 2002 Tahoe?" or "why pay $3 for that synthetic blend when you can buy the Chevron Supreme for $1.09" ?

Since I've been coming to this site I find myself wanting to "enlighten" the misguided masses in the aisles of Walmart...sometimes I do, sometimes I don't...but whenever I do I get these strange "sure, pal" looks.

I ain't the smartest guy in the world but I do feel like I don't have as many empty loops in my ammo belt as some of these people do when it comes to the lubricants aisle. I'm not trying to "show off" my limited knowledge or anything, just trying to help a few folks out.

I even wrote the url to this site on top of the box of a customer's case of Castrol 20w50 as I stood next to him in the checkout lane...sometimes I laugh at myself and just shake my head at how big of a geek I've become. (As long as my friends don't find out I'll be OK)

labman · Mar 24, 2003

Yes, yes, yes, do it. I wish I yielded to the temptation to do so today at Wal-Mart. I was in shock at the time seeing my local Wal-Mart has dropped STP, and cut way back on their SuperTech and MotorCraft. Not only that, the Super Techs are mostly the new, unknown quality black case ones. I was there to check out unDummy's suggestion of ST 3985 in place of 2808, 3953, and 3950. The only one of those 4 numbers I saw was the 3950's I have been using since I discovered they have twice the filter area of Fram. I greedily threw 4 of them in my cart. In June of 04, if Wal-mart hasn't learned their lesson, I will go to Advance Auto and buy Purolator.

Wal-Mart will stock what the public will buy. They are in business to make money, and you do that by giving the people what they want. It is up to us to keep Big Orange from pushing the good stuff off the shelf. I will be bringing this up on pointask and askmehelpdesk auto areas, complete with a link to here.

[ March 31, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

digitaldrifter91 · Mar 24, 2003

lol it irritates me that people grab fram as well. but i look at them and if they look at me ill tell them something, if not then its their problem. i feel racist towards fram now. donno why. i cant even find a good filter for me lOL.

people saying that fram is the best and all are the same is just err...though i said that before i came to this site, so im guilty. =)

Ray H · Mar 24, 2003

[ March 24, 2003, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

GROUCHO MARX · Mar 24, 2003

A dollar off Fram filters this week at K-Mart. I just thought you would like to know.

eldawg4100 · Mar 24, 2003

said the punk looking kid to his punk looking friend at the auto store.

I knew in my mind he would grab a fram. I just knew it! I was correct, he walked back to the front with that crappy orange box! I got almost angry, because we know its overpriced junk, and he probably thinks its THE BEST.

i felt like he was totally ignorant and almost got angry.

dickwells · Mar 24, 2003

On one of my trips to Walmart hoping for 5qt jugs of M1 to show up, I see a guy with his kid carrying a case of oil. He stops and puts a bunch of F@#% filters on top. I look at him and say,"those Supertech filters are better than F-). He just gives me a deer in the headlights look and continues on his way. Oh well!

Patman · Mar 24, 2003

At least he wasn't buying drugs!

TheLoneRanger · Mar 24, 2003

I am one of those who used to choose Fram over all of the rest. I was taken in by their advertising, and truly thought I was buying the best. I also used 10W-40 oil exclusively. If 10w30 is good, then 10W-40 has to be better, right?

Since visiting here, my brain cell is much bigger, and I think it's getting ready to divide.....

Ray H · Mar 25, 2003

I've never understood the dichotomy that when cells divide, they're really multiplying...

Long as we're in a light mood, I got an email from a friend yesterday to the effect that, "You know the world has gone topsy-turvey when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golpher is a black guy, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, and Germany has gone pacifist." I know, I know - I've got entirely too much free time...

[ March 25, 2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

turbochem · Mar 30, 2003

I think I'm going to hang around the Fram aisle at Wal Mart to catch one of you guys.....

I'll ask for data....then you'll mumble something about cardboard end caps.....

Then I'll explain that I'm a chemist and I like to make decisions based on data. "If you'll kindly supply the data about the filter, I have enough intelligence to interpret them. Yes, you've mentioned those pesky endcaps. What apparatus did you use to measure the supposed leakage because of this?"

Silence........

Not saying I'm a Fram guy. I like to rotate my filters......and Fram does come up every once in awhile....

I'm just saying I'm sure people don't appreciate you bugging them out of the clear blue for your expertese (obviously you're not swaying their opinions).....just so you can feel like you're saving the world from the orange death. You get angry? Get a grip!!

We have VOA's & used oil analysis to go on when we talk about oil. This is data!! It's right there!! What about filters? It's going to take alot more than cutting open filters to sway many people........

But I guess if you want to pick on the poor schlubbs at Wal Mart...go ahead....

BOBISTHEOILGUY · Mar 30, 2003

LOL

I have to tell you, One of you might come to me as I pick up a fram filter. LOL... I've just recently bought 3 of em!. Of course I'm a little reserved to call the orange cans garbage at this point. Reason? well, so far, according to my oil analysis with the use of a fram filter vers a Mobil 1 filter, the wear #'s are better. The filter test I am doing at this time, Bobistheoilguy's Filter Study , seems to support what my oil analysis is showing. Fram, at this point shows to have less pressure drop across the filter than any other at this point. a total of 4lb drop when the average is 6-8 on most. This in my opinion demonstrates better flow keeping more oil pressure to my bearings. This test has also unveiled a near 20lb drop across Fram's more elite filter the tough gard!. Nope, not seeing me put one of those on my car for sure. Anyway, cardboard end caps? well, yeah but I've yet to see any evidence of one of those torn up due to normal use. I ran my last one 7200 miles, cut open and it showed to still be the same. There was no evidence of cardboard fraying, warping, softening, anything that would bring concern to me from this.

So, point is, I'd be cautious of sharing your info based on a lot of opinions which IMO has been flying around about fram since that first filter study came out about it's construction.

I think what we need to be looking at is, does it work? does it hold up? does it provide the best flow?, and is the quality consistent or am I just a lucky guy that hasn't seen a bad one yet?

I'm not saying their the best, but surely it appears many have based their choice (as I did at one time) based on some mechanical observation of construction, not taking into account that the filter plays a BIG role in wear reduction, not so much by filtering but by ALLOWING FLOW and NOT RESTRICTING sufficient oil pressure to the critical engine parts, where oil will shear.

To those who like to approach people in the oil section, I too tend to do that on occasion if someone is just standing there trying to make a choice. I never voice my opinion though but make a comment like so many choices! How does one know what to pick?, Some very interesting comments come from this, many of which have no idea so do like to hear my opinion. When someone picks up an oil, I will sometimes ask, why do you use that brand? just generally wanting to see what reasons they have, which range from daddy used it, to price.

I'm as guilty as many of you talking oil in a parts house. BTW, latest victim, the advance auto parts guy himself. I asked for a filter(looking to get an acdelco for my test) and he immediately suggested a pure-one as the best. I love it! My immediate comment was, really? What brought you to that conclusion? His response was from a personal nature from his use. I then told him who I was and what I do for a living, and asked about flow vers filtration. Anyway, short of the long, he listen, and found some great info... BUT WORD OF CAUTION GUYS, NEVER tell someone that they are picking junk!..even if it is, that's an insult, as they feel they are picking up the best(based on what they know), and you insult their choice, that insults them.

turbochem · Mar 30, 2003

Hey Bob,

I didn't mean to say that it's harassment to simply talk to another person deciding on oil or a filter at a parts store. But like you said, if someone sees sometihng in your hand and then declares it crap....why, I picked this piece of crap off the shelf! Them are fighting words!!

I just think we know tons more about the performance of oil than we do filters.

Besides, I don't want anyone from the board to be injured in a scuffle at the local Pep Boys over filter selection!!

America -- buy the filter of your choice!!

Oh yeah, Canada, too!!

dickwells · Mar 30, 2003

Everyone has their own slant on data. My slant on the lower pressure differential of the fram is that the pressure relief valve is probably leaking like a sieve. At least the folks from this board who use frams are making an informed decision rather than based on size of the display and bright color.

Ken2 · Mar 30, 2003

All a filter can do is to remove particles. There are several things that can affect wear, and particles are the only one that filters can affect, given flow that matches the engine manufacturer's spec.

I'd like to see particle count analysis used to judge oil filters. These are standard tests for hydraulic systems, and can be done for this purpose on engines.

Ken

dickwells · Mar 30, 2003

Previous discussions seem to indicate that even if the bypass valve is open a large portion of the oil gets filtered. The filter element still has the 10lbs or whatever across it and is filtering oil. We also probably should not try and relate the performance on Bobs car of one filter with the performance of another one on his machine. If my readings of thousands of posts tells me anything about Fram, it is that their quality control is very haphazard with such things as cardboard particles, incompletely glued endcaps, loose glue particles, off center backflow valves, poorly welded or crimped seams, etc. This is not to say that many of their filters are not right down the center. In Quality Assurance we have a saying "In God we trust, All others bring data". As the data builds up we will see the truth emerge.

vvk · Mar 30, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
LOL

I have to tell you, One of you might come to me as I pick up a fram filter. LOL... I've just recently bought 3 of em!. Of course I'm a little reserved to call the orange cans garbage at this point. Reason? well, so far, according to my oil analysis with the use of a fram filter vers a Mobil 1 filter, the wear #'s are better. The filter test

I have seen many articles about poor quality of Fram filters. Most of them mention the possibility of oil getting around the filtering media because of poor sealing. It occurs to me that the low pressure drop of the Fram filter is due to that, rather than some very good flow qualities of Fram's filtering media. What do you think?

rugerman1 · Mar 31, 2003

vvk

quote:

I have seen many articles about poor quality of Fram filters. Most of them mention the possibility of oil getting around the filtering media because of poor sealing. It occurs to me that the low pressure drop of the Fram filter is due to that, rather than some very good flow qualities of Fram's filtering media. What do you think?

Probably so,but if the wear numbers and flow are better?

Mark

dickwells · Mar 31, 2003

Would you take vitamins that you knew were superior to others available if you knew that in every thousand a few had cyanide in them?

rugerman1 · Mar 31, 2003

quote:

dickwells,
Would you take vitamins that you knew were superior to others available if you knew that in every thousand a few had cyanide in them?

No I wouldn't.

Mark

"wait, i have to get an oil filter"

Similar threads