Wait... FRAM??

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jazztrumpet216
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: jazztrumpet216
It hasn’t been quite 8 years, I’ve lurked off and on, but it’s been at least 5 since my last logon for sure. Anything else I’ve missed?

Plenty! Start with the thick va thin debate.

When I last logged in, most were pretty firmly in the “thin” camp but there were a couple of holdouts. How many times has it gone back and forth?


Seems there are a lot of guys who are starting to understand why thicker oil protects better than thin, and that thin is OK if you're just cruising around like grandma going to the grocery store.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jazztrumpet216
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: jazztrumpet216
It hasn’t been quite 8 years, I’ve lurked off and on, but it’s been at least 5 since my last logon for sure. Anything else I’ve missed?

Plenty! Start with the thick va thin debate.
When I last logged in, most were pretty firmly in the “thin” camp but there were a couple of holdouts. How many times has it gone back and forth?
Seems there are a lot of guys who are starting to understand why thicker oil protects better than thin, and that thin is OK if you're just cruising around like grandma going to the grocery store.
Now Zee as with everything else here...it just depends. I pulled some heavy loads with my 2010 FX4 running xW-20 and it performed just fine. I am not sure how anything thicker would have been "better". But alas at the risk of starting a new thick vs. thin thread, we can call it an anomaly.

 

[bullwinkle]

If you have an engine engineered for thin oil, it should be able to handle them. Until it gets old & worn enough to lose oil pressure, then start using thicker oil (like my XJ using 10W40 & 15W40 to get the oil pressure higher). Just be careful with that thick oil in winter with a Purolator!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Now Zee as with everything else here...it just depends. I pulled some heavy loads with my 2010 FX4 running xW-20 and it performed just fine. I am not sure how anything thicker would have been "better". But alas at the risk of starting a new thick vs. thin thread, we can call it an anomaly.

Bet that FX4 has an oil cooler (probably coolant to oil heat transfer style) ... it's all about keeping oil temperature down to a safe level if using thin in heavy use. Could you see/monitor the oil temperature under heavy use?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Now Zee as with everything else here...it just depends. I pulled some heavy loads with my 2010 FX4 running xW-20 and it performed just fine. I am not sure how anything thicker would have been "better". But alas at the risk of starting a new thick vs. thin thread, we can call it an anomaly.

Bet that FX4 has an oil cooler (probably coolant to oil heat transfer style) ... it's all about keeping oil temperature down to a safe level if using thin in heavy use. Could you see/monitor the oil temperature under heavy use?
Yes, it did have a cooler and I could monitor temperatures, but towing a 8-9K load in the mountains at 117F easily minimizes that cooler. If xW-20 was so detrimental, my now retired modular would have exhibited problems--especially after towing more than 65,000 of the 158,000 miles that I put on it.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Yes, it did have a cooler and I could monitor temperatures, but towing a 8-9K load in the mountains at 117F easily minimizes that cooler. If xW-20 was so detrimental, my now retired modular would have exhibited problems--especially after towing more than 65,000 of the 158,000 miles that I put on it.
158K isn't all that many miles these days. Certainly not enough for slight increases in wear to cause failures.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Yes, it did have a cooler and I could monitor temperatures, but towing a 8-9K load in the mountains at 117F easily minimizes that cooler. If xW-20 was so detrimental, my now retired modular would have exhibited problems--especially after towing more than 65,000 of the 158,000 miles that I put on it.


What kind of max oil temperatures where you seeing?

No way of knowing if heavier oil would have caused less wear without a highly controlled experiment - but that's what all these technical papers about oil viscosity and engine wear do and show. Certainly heavier oil wouldn't have hurt in ensuring a bit more headroom for engine protection.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: jazztrumpet216
…..Anything else I’ve missed?...

Don't know if you missed it but Auto-RX no longer the darling here. 'Generally speaking', now relegated to snake oil status.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Yes, it did have a cooler and I could monitor temperatures, but towing a 8-9K load in the mountains at 117F easily minimizes that cooler. If xW-20 was so detrimental, my now retired modular would have exhibited problems--especially after towing more than 65,000 of the 158,000 miles that I put on it.
158K isn't all that many miles these days. Certainly not enough for slight increases in wear to cause failures.
I was not EXPECTING it to cause failures, but towing like that is not "light work" either. My point is everyone states that xW-20 causes more wear than other oils. I say prove it, I paid my dues, likely more than most. I UOA'ed every OCI and although that does not measure wear, my data is more robust than any I have seen on here related to xW-20 and using a truck as a truck.

 

[billt460]

I've been using Fram oil filters for over 40 years without a single issue, ever. I'm not going to stop now based on "Internet testimony" backed by nothing but hearsay and B.S.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Yes, it did have a cooler and I could monitor temperatures, but towing a 8-9K load in the mountains at 117F easily minimizes that cooler. If xW-20 was so detrimental, my now retired modular would have exhibited problems--especially after towing more than 65,000 of the 158,000 miles that I put on it.
What kind of max oil temperatures where you seeing?
250-260 at peak; 230-240 nominal.

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
No way of knowing if heavier oil would have caused less wear without a highly controlled experiment - but that's what all these technical papers about oil viscosity and engine wear do and show. Certainly heavier oil wouldn't have hurt in ensuring a bit more headroom for engine protection.
The point is the xW-20 did not cause any more wear either and (to my recollection) it is the only oil that has to be proven on this site. xW-30 and above gets a pass.

 

[danez_yoda]

8 years lets see.
Dexos Gen1 showed up then got upgraded to Gen2. Most older cars it doesnt matter but the transition caused lots of good clearance sales.

oil is oil is more and more a mantra. The advantages of a boutique oil in a daily driver over standard Walmart fare is getting negligibly small nowadays. Quality synthetic oils can regularly be gotten for 5qt jug with rebate or on clearance.

The PQIA website has a database of tested VOAs for most of the oils available. None of the oils with a API donut on it for a modern rating (SM or SN) is a "BAD oil". Even those no name ones from Dollar Store or the local quick stop are good if the have the API sticker and the proper rating.

The ones that are bad are fairly easy to spot.

Oil research is really just a hobby now. Pour anything in the car and change it at the manufactures interval and you should expect to get 200K miles with no oil related engine problems.


Lifes easy now.

 

[mazdamonky]

Originally Posted By: danez_yoda
OCOD is a fine filter. People freaked out about the cardboard end caps as a sacrifice in quality for cheapness. Fram seems to have proven everyone wrong in this category since I have not seen a single instance of the endcaps buckling, bowing or otherwise failing in the cut open filter posts.

You KNOW if there was one, the naysayers would hold it up as the poster child of FRAM cheaping out.

For 5K mile intervals and less than 1 year, I'd screw on a OCOD with no concerns.






I found one where the end caps failed... But the catch was, it was a basic Fram jobber filter from walmart intended for a less than 5k oil change that had at least 20k miles on it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Yes, it did have a cooler and I could monitor temperatures, but towing a 8-9K load in the mountains at 117F easily minimizes that cooler. If xW-20 was so detrimental, my now retired modular would have exhibited problems--especially after towing more than 65,000 of the 158,000 miles that I put on it.
What kind of max oil temperatures where you seeing?
250-260 at peak; 230-240 nominal.


Without any oil cooler, I'd bet the oil temperature would have been 300+ F under those extreme towing conditions... well into the danger zone for xW-20. 230~240 F during "normal", as in no towing and in cooler ambient temps? If so, seems high as most vehicles run oil temp of ~200 F with benign driving.

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
No way of knowing if heavier oil would have caused less wear without a highly controlled experiment - but that's what all these technical papers about oil viscosity and engine wear do and show. Certainly heavier oil wouldn't have hurt in ensuring a bit more headroom for engine protection.
The point is the xW-20 did not cause any more wear either and (to my recollection) it is the only oil that has to be proven on this site. xW-30 and above gets a pass.


There's been studies that show the HTHS of xW-20 is approaching the bare minimum for protection at elevated temps. xW-30 and above gives more protection headroom for oil temperature rise - that's basically what the research studies typically conclude. Yeah, I know - dead horse.

 

[jazztrumpet216]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Originally Posted By: jazztrumpet216
…..Anything else I’ve missed?...

Don't know if you missed it but Auto-RX no longer the darling here. 'Generally speaking', now relegated to snake oil status.



Yeah, I gathered that, which is why I didn’t mention the name of the engine cleaner I was running. Any reason why, or is it one of those stories I’m just better off not knowing?

 

[jazztrumpet216]

Originally Posted By: danez_yoda
8 years lets see.
Dexos Gen1 showed up then got upgraded to Gen2. Most older cars it doesnt matter but the transition caused lots of good clearance sales.

oil is oil is more and more a mantra. The advantages of a boutique oil in a daily driver over standard Walmart fare is getting negligibly small nowadays. Quality synthetic oils can regularly be gotten for 5qt jug with rebate or on clearance.

The PQIA website has a database of tested VOAs for most of the oils available. None of the oils with a API donut on it for a modern rating (SM or SN) is a "BAD oil". Even those no name ones from Dollar Store or the local quick stop are good if the have the API sticker and the proper rating.

The ones that are bad are fairly easy to spot.

Oil research is really just a hobby now. Pour anything in the car and change it at the manufactures interval and you should expect to get 200K miles with no oil related engine problems.


Lifes easy now.


We were starting to get to “oil is oil” when I stopped posting. That’s good, I was having trouble keeping up with all of the fads before. German Castrol, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol EDGE, and a few others I’m sure I’m forgetting.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: jazztrumpet216
So, I’ve been gone for awhile. I’m seeing all kinds of posts with people using FRAM filters. When I was last here, they were considered to be so bad we had members performing exorcisms on them (okay, maybe not THAT bad, but close). Are they considered to be decent now?

Also... Purolator- no good? I just swapped a filter last night on my Santa Fe since I’m running an engine cleaner through it. It’s a couple of years old but looked good. Should I trash it?

Sincerely,
Confused old member


It is no longer the Orange Can Of Death.

If your vehicle currently has a Purolator filter installed....you are in immediate danger...pull it now!!!!

Have you heard of the Fram Ultra?

Let the Fram evangelism continue...

 

[Onetor]

There is a Fram representative on this site who answers questions and supplies data. What a blessing! I commend Fram.

 

[69Torino]

I just put a Fram on a car I intend to sell. My “keepers” still get K&N, Napa Gold or Ford Racing Filters.

I will say that it is nice of Fram to put silicone valves in every single filter now. Without a price increase. Nice touch. I can put filters on other people’s cars for less than $4 and not feel bad about it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Yes, it did have a cooler and I could monitor temperatures, but towing a 8-9K load in the mountains at 117F easily minimizes that cooler. If xW-20 was so detrimental, my now retired modular would have exhibited problems--especially after towing more than 65,000 of the 158,000 miles that I put on it.
What kind of max oil temperatures where you seeing?
250-260 at peak; 230-240 nominal.


Without any oil cooler, I'd bet the oil temperature would have been 300+ F under those extreme towing conditions... well into the danger zone for xW-20. 230~240 F during "normal", as in no towing and in cooler ambient temps? If so, seems high as most vehicles run oil temp of ~200 F with benign driving.

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
No way of knowing if heavier oil would have caused less wear without a highly controlled experiment - but that's what all these technical papers about oil viscosity and engine wear do and show. Certainly heavier oil wouldn't have hurt in ensuring a bit more headroom for engine protection.
The point is the xW-20 did not cause any more wear either and (to my recollection) it is the only oil that has to be proven on this site. xW-30 and above gets a pass.


There's been studies that show the HTHS of xW-20 is approaching the bare minimum for protection at elevated temps. xW-30 and above gives more protection headroom for oil temperature rise - that's basically what the research studies typically conclude. Yeah, I know - dead horse.

230-240F towing on flat roads and 110F. As you said...dead horse.