vw rabbit vs. mazda3 vs. imprezza

[oilnoob425]

Originally Posted By: rationull
But seriously, calling an economy car with almost 150 hp underpowered? 0-60 in probably under 8 seconds? It's an economy car!


Yes it is an economy car but others on the list are more powerfull so why go with less powerfull car then? IDK I don't go by 0-60 numbers. I drove Mazda 3i model and it felt as powerfull as my 115hp Civic. Than I drove Impreza RS with 165hp and it was day and night difference. Awesome car! Than I drove new 8 Gen Civic LX with 140hp and it still felt more powerfull than Mazda 3i.

Originally Posted By: rationull
In that vein, unless AWD is a "necessity" for weather related reasons I'd say weight/FE benefits would be a good reason to choose one of the FWD options instead of the Subaru. Nothing against AWD or Subaru from me but every tool has its purpose and AWD seems like kind of a waste for an around town/freeway cruiser IMO.


Well I specifically said "ALL REST ASIDE". Impreza is still ultimately better car of the three regardless of anything. And AWD is not a waste. It will give you the edge in handling over FWD cars no matter what time of year it is. The waste is a 500hp Corvette that has been driven at 55 mph speed limit by some old guy. Now that's a waste!

 

[rationull]

Sorry, I don't really want to get into a debate about it. I understand where you're coming from but I was trying to address:

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Why buy lame FWD car when you can have AWD car for the same ammount of money? Subaru Impreza is no brainer here.


The Impreza is a no-brainer only if one agrees with your sentiment about lame FWD cars. Also since the cars listed are all particularly in the economy segment (although at the lower FE end of it) it's possible that the higher FE of the other two would cancel out the AWD benefit.

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425

Mazda 3 is ok in S model, i model is underpowered.


Points taken about the comparison between the 3i and other cars (though my experience with my own 8th gen Civic does not show it to feel faster than the 3i in my experience) but my point there was there's a line between "less powerful than another car" and "underpowered". If more power's your thing then no argument with choosing the more powerful of the listed cars but as above I'd argue that unless a car is actually "underpowered" (admittedly subjective) power should probably not be the first concern in a comparison between economy cars.

EDIT: And just out of curiosity, what year/trans 3i did you drive? If it was one with the old 4 speed auto that could explain the lack of power. I've only driven the MT version and IMO it's got plenty of get-up.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: rationull
But seriously, calling an economy car with almost 150 hp underpowered? 0-60 in probably under 8 seconds? It's an economy car!


Yes it is an economy car but others on the list are more powerfull so why go with less powerfull car then? IDK I don't go by 0-60 numbers. I drove Mazda 3i model and it felt as powerfull as my 115hp Civic. Than I drove Impreza RS with 165hp and it was day and night difference. Awesome car! Than I drove new 8 Gen Civic LX with 140hp and it still felt more powerfull than Mazda 3i.

Originally Posted By: rationull
In that vein, unless AWD is a "necessity" for weather related reasons I'd say weight/FE benefits would be a good reason to choose one of the FWD options instead of the Subaru. Nothing against AWD or Subaru from me but every tool has its purpose and AWD seems like kind of a waste for an around town/freeway cruiser IMO.


Well I specifically said "ALL REST ASIDE". Impreza is still ultimately better car of the three regardless of anything. And AWD is not a waste. It will give you the edge in handling over FWD cars no matter what time of year it is. The waste is a 500hp Corvette that has been driven at 55 mph speed limit by some old guy. Now that's a waste!


Why are you perceiving the mission of a small economy car to be fast and powerful. You have the mission confused, and it seems that you don't buy gasoline, because if you did, you too would NOT get the fastest NOR most powerful car. The mission of those cars is primarily to save on gas.

Unless one lives in a snowy or muddy area, AWD is a huge waste of money, and gasoline.

My little Yaris with a 106hp 1.5L engine has NEVER prevented me from safely getting on freeways, passing slower vehicles, nor getting out of the way of others. You see, I am a good driver and being a good driver means I don't need the crutch of a fast powerful car to get around.

I suspect you're in your 20's, or at least it is exceedingly obvious because what you don't realize is that there will ALWAYS be a car a little faster then yours, and exploring the capabilities of even a "slow car" is illegal in all 50 states, and the high price of gasoline bares repeating yea?

Speed and power should be the LAST thing on one's list of criteria, when shopping for a small economy car. The slowest of these cars is still fast and powerful enough to get around, and safely. The only reason for more power, speed and AWD 9 times out of ten is to feed one's immature ego, provide bragging rights, and to put stock Civics and Corollas "in their place", and oh the euphoria you young bucks must feel when you blow by an oil burning Omni or Rice'd out 1999 Civic SI....Ewwwwww!!!

A better list to use when shopping for a small economy car is something like this:

1. Safety.
2. Reliability.
3. Cost of Ownership (upkeep, gas, other running expenses).
4. Handling (the worse is still good enough)
5. Performance (the worse is still good enough)

 

[oilnoob425]

He didn't say anything about gas economy or any economy at all!!! You guys should learn how to read more carefully. Everyone is so bend up over this gas situation they percieve their demons on someone else. Maybe he got money on gas that's why he's buying new car. If you can't afford gas then you probably can't afford new car either. Just by some used Corolla or Civic.

I guess he wants fun to drive car thus there is no Corollas on his list. If you want boring economy car buy Corolla and be done with it. But if you are true enthusiast then for You car with most power and best handling always wins. Thus Impreza is the best one here. Just pick the best performing car for the money. It's realy that simple! And yes there always be better car but why settle for less when you can get more for the same money?

P.S. Yeah that Mazda 3i was auto but maybe A/T is what he needs. Not everyone likes M/T. Okey?

P.S.2. Oh yeah and Impreza beats the other two in PASSIVE and ACTIVE safety category also! Let alone that tiny Toyota Yaris. LOL!

 

[rationull]

Relax oilnoob You're right, he didn't say anything about fuel economy. However, my post and lovcom's contrasted with yours do serve to indicate that there are differing points of view here. You said specifically that the Subaru was a "no-brainer" and a superior car to the other two because it has AWD. You said, "Impreza is still ultimately better car of the three regardless of anything."

That's one viewpoint. Myself (and it appears lovcom too) are thinking more along the lines that none of these are sports cars anyway, so FE might as well play a role unless AWD is helpful for reasons other than on-road good weather handling (at which the MZ3 and the Rabbit are both more than competent anyway). Indeed, the thread is all about people's opinions on the comparison between these three cars. It seems to me that all different criteria are fair game.

You say he didn't say anything about FE. I say he didn't say anything about wanting as much power as he can get, or needing AWD specifically. If either of these were the only criteria then clearly we wouldn't need this thread at all.

 

[oilnoob425]

So what if they are not sport cars but economy cars? My point is if you got the choice you should get better performing car for the money anyway. Why settle for less? It's a common sense.

Impreza is more powerfull and get best handling due to it's suspension, boxer engine and AWD. Yeah it will eat more gas but if you can't afford gas then you probably can't afford a new car either. Just buy used Corolla.

 

[rationull]

Just to nitpick a bit:

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425

I guess he wants fun to drive car thus there is no Corollas on his list.


IMO the most logical assumption for why the Corolla isn't on the list is that it doesn't come in a hatch. Although I suspect you are right, as the Matrix is essentially a Corolla hatch. But anyway isn't that kind of a non-sequitur?

Quote:

P.S. Yeah that Mazda 3i was auto but maybe A/T is what he needs. Not everyone likes M/T. Okey?


Didn't mean to imply everyone did. All I was doing was pointing out that the MT version is likely much more peppy than the AT.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
My point is if you got the choice you should get better performing car for the money. It's a common sense. Impreza is more powerfull and get best handling due to it's suspension, boxer engine and AWD. Yeah it will eat more gas but if you can't afford gas then you probably can't afford a new car either. Just buy used Corolla.


You're still not getting what I'm saying. "Better performing" is ambiguous. Suppose you want the car on this list that has the best grip and general handling: in that case you're right, the Impreza is the best. However, FE, as an extension of the general term "efficiency" is a measure of performance too. If I'm shopping for a car in this segment (face it, none of them are truly speed or handling wonders anyway), then FE is going to factor into the decision. For instance, my Civic handles just fine, has plenty of power, and gets great mileage. It's a compromise. I've driven sports cars too, and do consider myself an enthusiast but I'm perfectly happy with this level of performance in a daily driver.

Further, whether or not someone wants a car that gets good FE doesn't necessarily have much to do with whether they can "afford" the gas.

 

[oilnoob425]

Originally Posted By: rationull
IMO the most logical assumption for why the Corolla isn't on the list is that it doesn't come in a hatch. Although I suspect you are right, as the Matrix is essentially a Corolla hatch. But anyway isn't that kind of a non-sequitur?


He didn't say anything about hatches either! LOL! You really need to read more carefully.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425

He didn't say anything about hatches either! LOL! You really need to read more carefully.


Originally Posted By: bennyG19
Originally Posted By: rationull
Or it's possible the OP is looking for a hatch.


exactly, i want a hatch.



You were saying?

 

[oilnoob425]

Here I edited this post to make a good point. Read it again please. Thanks!

So what if they are not sport cars but economy cars? My point is if you got the choice you should get better performing car for the money anyway. Why settle for less? It's a common sense.

Impreza is more powerfull and get best handling due to it's suspension, boxer engine and AWD. Yeah it will eat more gas but if you can't afford gas then you probably can't afford a new car either. Just buy used Corolla.

 

[oilnoob425]

Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425

He didn't say anything about hatches either! LOL! You really need to read more carefully.


Originally Posted By: bennyG19
Originally Posted By: rationull
Or it's possible the OP is looking for a hatch.


exactly, i want a hatch.


Well I didn't read every post. He didn't say it in the begining though!


You were saying?

 

[rationull]

I don't really think it's worth continuing this back and forth at this point. I think we can both agree on the following, assuming the three cars in the subject are the only choices:

If the best handling and the most power is a priority, then the Impreza is the clear winner. Otherwise it's probably between the Mazda and the VW, based on other criteria.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Here I edited this post to make a good point. Read it again please. Thanks!

So what if they are not sport cars but economy cars? My point is if you got the choice you should get better performing car for the money anyway. Why settle for less? It's a common sense.


(Totally ignoring what I just said for a second)

Yeah, I see your point. But "better performing" really does depend on what you're looking for. On the Fuel Economy axis, the MZ3 is "better performing" than the Impreza, agreed? Put another way, if you don't care so much about handling or max power then why would you want a car that sucks more gas over one that gets better FE? Like all things this is a compromise and you're going to have to "settle for less" in one aspect or another.

Actually it'd be good to hear from the OP on this topic. bennyG, what are your priorities here?

 

[oilnoob425]

Yeah I see your point. It's just everyone in this topic ganged up on Impreza being influenced by high gas prices, although from performance standpoint it's a clear winner, so I thought I should clear thing up a little bit. I can't stand to see good car being bashed like that only because everybody got their panties in the bunch with this oil crisis. We gotta be more balanced and objective than that. And I also didn't see him saying that he wants most economy than anything else. Who knows maybe performance is more important to him, so I weighted in with my opinion.

 

[rationull]

Hah, yeah well. I, for one, don't mean to bash the Impreza and I actually wasn't advocating FE as an important consideration just because of high gas prices. Just for the record I think boxer engines are awesome and I love the exhaust note that comes with them.

You're right, it deserves consideration and the decision totally depends on the priorities of the buyer. Actually before I bought my Civic I was thinking about the Impreza as well as a few others, and the Civic (coupe) won out because of multiple factors (good balance of power/FE in its class, I like the styling, I like my local Honda dealership better than some of the others, etc). The Civic coupe actually handles pretty well and I didn't think it was worth moving down a class in FE for a little more torque. Gas prices honestly didn't factor into the FE part of the decision, though. I'd been driving more of a gas hog for a while and just felt like getting a car that would put me in the 30s and 40s again. Not that this is relevant to the discussion at hand, really.

Anyway, to play devil's advocate a bit (and in the process go a bit outside the scope of the OP) if performance really is a concern then the GTI or (even better, IMO) the MazdaSpeed 3 can be had for "around" $20,000. The WRX is close as well, but it comes in 1-2k more than the MS3 and GTI, IIRC. Like I said, that's outside the scope of the OP though since he specifically mentioned the non-turbo versions.

 

[glennc]

One thing I have noticed is that "performance" and "fun to drive" are not always even close to the same thing. What makes a car rewarding to drive is much more complicated than any combination of performance measures IMO. Looking just at performance numbers is like picking your favorite band by how loud they can play.

 

[01rangerxl]

Good point. The most fun I have had driving was in a Ford F-250 with a 6 speed manual and a diesel. It is by no means the fastest vehicle I have ever driven, but it was a lot of fun to drive.

 

[rationull]

Too true. It reminds me of the motorcycle saying, "it's more fun to drive a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow". Unless you're drag racing you're not going to need top power anyway. For my part I know the speed at which I can take a twisty hill climb in my Civic is definitely not limited by the engine.

Although handling dynamics are still important of course (more important than power) and the Impreza is most likely going to beat out the other two on that front (although I wouldn't be surprised if the Mazda3 is just as fun to drive).

 

[Tornado Red]

Considering how much fun my Golf is to drive, and considering that the Rabbit has independent rear suspension and my Golf doesn't, I suspect the Rabbit is also fun to drive. 170 ft-lb of torque from the 2.5-liter I5 engine is good but not great. I think it is worth a look and maybe a test drive, since it was already on the OP's original list.