VW diesel BuyBack announced

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
According to the reports these diesels were polluting 40x times the limits. This is significantly higher.



And? Without context the number is sensationalism and worthless.

0.1 ppm vs 4 ppm?
1 vs 40ppm?
100 vs 400 ppm?


Keep in mind that the CO2 is like 135000 PPM and CO is like 14000 ppm in a working engine.

Actually, I found the calculation:

NOx (g/kWh)=0.006636 x NOx ppm.

A Euro V diesel is rated at 2g/kWh, which means it "spews" 300ppm.

While the CO2 content is like 135000ppm.

BOTH will increase as the MPGs are dropped and total tonnage is increased due to higher fuel use.


I don't agree that each of those pollutants are equivalent. NOx is much worse in my mind than CO2.

They could have had both good mpg and good emissions if they hadn't cheated for financial gain by "designing" a system without DEF.

 

[Eddie]

Why am I frequently seeing large diesel pickup trucks spewing out black smoke on heavy throttle? I would assume that the truck manufactures have pollution controls to limit excess unburnt fuel, but, I guess not based on observation. Ed

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Win
If VW is buying affected cars back from the dealers, it means they have no idea how to make them legal in a timely manner, to be sold to the public.


Id suspect that the dealers have to put out a bunch of their own money on stock of cars, so the easiest thing for VW to do is free up dealers' stock/funds (so they can buy other models from VW and keep the factories producing), and then do more difficult retrofitting than a dealer's repair shop could do... Since that would likely be more expensive.

Im not sure that its necessarily that they cant be made legal. You can be sure that an AdBlue system will make it "legal" from a few ppm basis. But its a difficult retrofit, Im sure, so they likely need to have a dedicated repair shop.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
According to the reports these diesels were polluting 40x times the limits. This is significantly higher.



And? Without context the number is sensationalism and worthless.

0.1 ppm vs 4 ppm?
1 vs 40ppm?
100 vs 400 ppm?


Keep in mind that the CO2 is like 135000 PPM and CO is like 14000 ppm in a working engine.

Actually, I found the calculation:

NOx (g/kWh)=0.006636 x NOx ppm.

A Euro V diesel is rated at 2g/kWh, which means it "spews" 300ppm.

While the CO2 content is like 135000ppm.

BOTH will increase as the MPGs are dropped and total tonnage is increased due to higher fuel use.


I don't agree that each of those pollutants are equivalent. NOx is much worse in my mind than CO2.

They could have had both good mpg and good emissions if they hadn't cheated for financial gain by "designing" a system without DEF.


Granted, but here's the issue:

If they "fix" this and make it compliant, there will STILL be NOX emissions coming out.

Its not like a fix makes the emissions magically go to zero.

And if were talking a few hundred ppm of NOx, the returns on that fix are miniscule in the big scheme of things.

So we burn more fuel, release more total emissions, though the marginal fraction of NOx is lower.

But NOx still comes out, so weve spent more money, effort, etc. to get a marginal decrease because someone is afraid of the NOx boogeyman.

Doesn't make sense to me, at all.

In reality, the manufacturing and installation (energy consumed, shipping, etc) will release more NOx than the fix will ever reduce.

Remember that NOx is also combustion temperature dependent, so even if the VW was 40x higher, it wont be in all conditions. At idle and part load the NOx issue will be far less of a concern than at high boost, WOT, which doesn't actually happen all that often.

 

[Olas]

I see a strange irony in a nation that daily drives V8 trucks and roal coal complain that the pollution from a 2 liter diesel that hits 60mpg is excessive..
Maybe it's just me?

 

[Kawiguy454]

The large pickup billow black smoke because the little weenies driving them buy a black box programmer to dump more fuel in for race/tow mode. Not sure why they don't switch to economy mode for just driving around.

You lefty climate change embracers claim exclusive ownership of realityville. One day when your wealth and job are redistributed to the unwashed masses in the name of GCC via global rule you may wake up from your reality dream.

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

Your wealth is already redistributed. To the top. The ultra-wealthy happen to have marketing good enough to make you believe that the poor are the problem.

 

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
The large pickup billow black smoke because the little weenies driving them buy a black box programmer to dump more fuel in for race/tow mode. Not sure why they don't switch to economy mode for just driving around.

You lefty climate change embracers claim exclusive ownership of realityville. One day when your wealth and job are redistributed to the unwashed masses in the name of GCC via global rule you may wake up from your reality dream.


Climate change should not be a political issue. Your job being exported will be the least of your problems, when you need air conditioning year 'round, just to stay alive.

 

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
Why am I frequently seeing large diesel pickup trucks spewing out black smoke on heavy throttle? I would assume that the truck manufactures have pollution controls to limit excess unburnt fuel, but, I guess not based on observation. Ed
Because they have "deleted" the emissions systems (which is a federal violation) and installed a "tuner" in the quest for more HP/Torque/MPG. Though I do not support these actions, a PROPERLY tuned diesel can improve on all of the above without "rolling coal"--this is some "fashion statement" by an idiot behind the wheel.

I assume that you are talking about light diesels here and not OTR trucks.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Your wealth is already redistributed. To the top. The ultra-wealthy happen to have marketing good enough to make you believe that the poor are the problem.


LOL. They have you distracted wanting what the other guy has. Work for it like the rest of us and you'll get it too. No government redistribution needed. There are millions in America that have nothing and end up with millions.

It's also hilarious that people think the other "rich guy" is going to take from his buddies to give it to you. Given they also are rich why are they not giving away their millions/billions? Who needs more than a couple million to live?

As far as VW - they need to nip this one in the bud. I also wonder what else they have cheated on?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
first spy-pics of the VW fix...

NOx emissions look to be promising, but cleaning up the particulates may be objectionable.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
The large pickup billow black smoke because the little weenies driving them buy a black box programmer to dump more fuel in for race/tow mode. Not sure why they don't switch to economy mode for just driving around.

You lefty climate change embracers claim exclusive ownership of realityville. One day when your wealth and job are redistributed to the unwashed masses in the name of GCC via global rule you may wake up from your reality dream.


Climate change should not be a political issue. Your job being exported will be the least of your problems, when you need air conditioning year 'round, just to stay alive.


Your statement is just silly. We have already passed the point in time at which Al Gore's Hockey Stick graph told us we'd need air conditioning year-round. Nothing happened. I only had the A/C on in my house 8 days this year. Even Global Warming theorists have stopped using that term, and now call it Climate Change.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
[

Your statement is just silly. We have already passed the point in time at which Al Gore's Hockey Stick graph told us we'd need air conditioning year-round. Nothing happened. I only had the A/C on in my house 8 days this year.


Cool I feel much better now.

 

[spackard]

VW caught cheating a 2nd time.
The Environmental Protection Agency said the German automaker installed software designed to defeat emissions tests on 2014 to 2016 vehicles with three-liter six-cylinder diesel engines. Volkswagen previously acknowledged rigging emissions tests for four-cylinder diesel engines on 11 million cars worldwide, including almost 500,000 in the U.S.

The new violations cover about 10,000 vehicles, including the 2014 Touareg, 2015 Porsche Cayenne and the 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8 and Q5.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/02/epa-says-volkswagen-cheated-2nd-time-on-pollution-tests/

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
As far as VW - they need to nip this one in the bud. I also wonder what else they have cheated on?
Played a VW engineer last week in a card game. Had to shoot him cuz he kept trying to look at my cards. Tricky dinkus he was.

 

[OneEyeJack]

VW almost got away with all this. They know that groups like the EPA are not about the science, the environment and protection. Groups like the EPA are about politics and control. They are in the business to punish anyone that crosses them or confronts them with minor details like the truth or science or even common sense.

The EPA would have never caught VW on their own. They spout a lot of fancy and sometimes scientific sounding talk but it's just noise. Remember, their business is to punish and control. All the rest is just window dressing. They could care less what happens to the environment as long as they are in control.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Win
If VW is buying affected cars back from the dealers, it means they have no idea how to make them legal in a timely manner, to be sold to the public.


VW knows exactly how to make these cars legal.
It can flash the ECU to make the car behave as though it's on a chassis dyno at all times, which would result in an unacceptable loss of performance and fuel economy, or it can add an aftertreatment setup requiring urea, which would be unacceptably costly.
VW will instead buy these cars from the dealer network and resell them in lands less concerned about emissions.
The question of buybacks or compensation for existing owners is more problematic.
At what price should VW buy these cars back?
Current market value, which would account for the use the owners have gotten from their cars?
Serviceable cars will likely be resold in other markets, so maybe VW should pay more?
For those who say that they won't have their cars fixed if a fix is offered, there may be difficulty in registering the car in most of those areas of the US where people actually buy and drive VWs.
VW is in this deep and it'll cost them plenty to get out of the swamp they've driven themselves into.
Clean diesel or cheap diesel?
The two may be mutually exclusive.

 

[ARB1977]

One mans junk is one mans treasure. Open up the exhaust and add a programmer and you got yourself fun toy to drive. Would love to get my hands on one of these.

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: Olas
I see a strange irony in a nation that daily drives V8 trucks and roal coal complain that the pollution from a 2 liter diesel that hits 60mpg is excessive..
Maybe it's just me?


Stop your rational discourse NOW, you live in Murica!

But honestly I have a residence in a state with NO emissions and would LOVE to own one of these "defective" TDI models VW is buying back from dealers, what they SHOULD do is sell them to auctions and let the buying public that can have them and register without emissions inspections own them, by selling them as used.

 

[dblshock]

But honestly I have a residence in a state with NO emissions and would LOVE to own one of these "defective" TDI models VW is buying back from dealers, what they SHOULD do is sell them to auctions and let the buying public that can have them and register without emissions inspections own them, by selling them as used.

[/quote]

I thought the scheduled maintenance, constant repair and down time more than washed any fuel savings on these TDI's that's why so few sold.