I wonder what Total's take on this is.
France phasing out diesel vehicles
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Numb nuts rolling coal don't help. Rich tunes on "race" cats stink, but nothing smells worse than a mod'd and smoke-tuned diesel.
Is this a problem in France?
Numb nuts rolling coal don't help. Rich tunes on "race" cats stink, but nothing smells worse than a mod'd and smoke-tuned diesel.
Is this a problem in France?
Originally Posted By: weasley
It's also about NOx. Diesels produce this more readily than gasolines - you can tune the engine to run cooler (EGR) and then deal with the resultant PM in the exhaust (DPF) Or you can run the engine hot and use SCR to deal with the NOx in the exhaust - this needs an additional AdBlue tank and catalyser though. NOx is a major cause of smog and cardiopulmonary afflictions.
On the PM thing, DI gasolines are putting out reasonable levels of PM, but as stated they are smaller (and thus more damaging). We may soon see the need for GPFs to hit future Euro norms.
Article in the recent Hot Rod magazine indicated that DI "fixes" cold start emissions. Makes me wonder though if port injection, outside of cold start, might have an edge in emissions, once PM is taken into account.
As much as I like diesel power it does seem that diesel got special allowance for years on the emissions front.
It's also about NOx. Diesels produce this more readily than gasolines - you can tune the engine to run cooler (EGR) and then deal with the resultant PM in the exhaust (DPF) Or you can run the engine hot and use SCR to deal with the NOx in the exhaust - this needs an additional AdBlue tank and catalyser though. NOx is a major cause of smog and cardiopulmonary afflictions.
On the PM thing, DI gasolines are putting out reasonable levels of PM, but as stated they are smaller (and thus more damaging). We may soon see the need for GPFs to hit future Euro norms.
Article in the recent Hot Rod magazine indicated that DI "fixes" cold start emissions. Makes me wonder though if port injection, outside of cold start, might have an edge in emissions, once PM is taken into account.
As much as I like diesel power it does seem that diesel got special allowance for years on the emissions front.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
About 80 percent of French motorists drive diesel-powered cars.
Its a friggin cash grab nothing more or less. They couldn't give a rats rear about the pollution.
France is a little Mikey Mouse socialist state that is beyond broke. Need cash? No problem!
Make a new tax for the children or the environment its that simple.
Seems to me you have something against France as a country or the French people. That alone makes arguing worthless. But actually Frances national debt is 92 % to gdp and the US debt is 101 % gdp
Quote:
About 80 percent of French motorists drive diesel-powered cars.
Its a friggin cash grab nothing more or less. They couldn't give a rats rear about the pollution.
France is a little Mikey Mouse socialist state that is beyond broke. Need cash? No problem!
Make a new tax for the children or the environment its that simple.
Seems to me you have something against France as a country or the French people. That alone makes arguing worthless. But actually Frances national debt is 92 % to gdp and the US debt is 101 % gdp
Originally Posted By: kozanoglu
shDK, what are they going to do with the established high demand for small diesel engined cars and vans? Easier said than done. I prefer a diesel over gas. Torque, once felt, can not be forgotten/given up.
I Am sure almost all vans will still be diesel. On the other hand I am pretty sure that the demand for diesel cars will change into a demand for petrol cars. As a result off diesel getting more expensive, and petrol engines getting better.
shDK, what are they going to do with the established high demand for small diesel engined cars and vans? Easier said than done. I prefer a diesel over gas. Torque, once felt, can not be forgotten/given up.
I Am sure almost all vans will still be diesel. On the other hand I am pretty sure that the demand for diesel cars will change into a demand for petrol cars. As a result off diesel getting more expensive, and petrol engines getting better.
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
About 80 percent of French motorists drive diesel-powered cars.
Its a friggin cash grab nothing more or less. They couldn't give a rats rear about the pollution.
France is a little Mikey Mouse socialist state that is beyond broke. Need cash? No problem!
Make a new tax for the children or the environment its that simple.
Seems to me you have something against France as a country or the French people. That alone makes arguing worthless. But actually Frances national debt is 92 % to gdp and the US debt is 101 % gdp
Trav, you nailed it perfectly. Don't look for any other reason that finding more ways to tax people (and stop subventionning the trucking industry at the same time for this one).
That is what they are doing since 2010... so it is not a socialist thing. In fact it is an all Europe motto now (UK is quite creative too).
ShDK, I am french born and all my family still live over there. My brother taxes went up one third this year alone.
And even if Trav is (or was?) US citizen, I think, like you, he can clearly see what is going on in Europe these days (he lives in Germany I believe).
BTW, International Center for Monetary Banking has calculated all debts for each country, not only the public debt, and France is 8th at 254% of gdp, just in front of the US at 250%.
But you feel it less in the US thanks to the Quantitive Ease...
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
About 80 percent of French motorists drive diesel-powered cars.
Its a friggin cash grab nothing more or less. They couldn't give a rats rear about the pollution.
France is a little Mikey Mouse socialist state that is beyond broke. Need cash? No problem!
Make a new tax for the children or the environment its that simple.
Seems to me you have something against France as a country or the French people. That alone makes arguing worthless. But actually Frances national debt is 92 % to gdp and the US debt is 101 % gdp
Trav, you nailed it perfectly. Don't look for any other reason that finding more ways to tax people (and stop subventionning the trucking industry at the same time for this one).
That is what they are doing since 2010... so it is not a socialist thing. In fact it is an all Europe motto now (UK is quite creative too).
ShDK, I am french born and all my family still live over there. My brother taxes went up one third this year alone.
And even if Trav is (or was?) US citizen, I think, like you, he can clearly see what is going on in Europe these days (he lives in Germany I believe).
BTW, International Center for Monetary Banking has calculated all debts for each country, not only the public debt, and France is 8th at 254% of gdp, just in front of the US at 250%.
But you feel it less in the US thanks to the Quantitive Ease...
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: kozanoglu
...what are they going to do with the established high demand for small diesel engined cars and vans? ...
It's fairly obvious that total cost of ownership rather than some perception of "torque" will determine what most people choose to buy.
Not gonna happen, pal.
Originally Posted By: kozanoglu
...what are they going to do with the established high demand for small diesel engined cars and vans? ...
It's fairly obvious that total cost of ownership rather than some perception of "torque" will determine what most people choose to buy.
Not gonna happen, pal.
gathermewool
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Originally Posted By: Joel_MD
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Numb nuts rolling coal don't help. Rich tunes on "race" cats stink, but nothing smells worse than a mod'd and smoke-tuned diesel.
Is this a problem in France?
I honestly don't know; however, I have been to half a dozen countries where diesels were distinctly stinkier and output more soot than anything else on the road. So, with lesser emissions controls (again, i don't know what emissions controls France enforces) diesels will be, at the very least, perceived as more polluting.
For reference, nearly EVERY diesel in Peru rolled coal
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Numb nuts rolling coal don't help. Rich tunes on "race" cats stink, but nothing smells worse than a mod'd and smoke-tuned diesel.
Is this a problem in France?
I honestly don't know; however, I have been to half a dozen countries where diesels were distinctly stinkier and output more soot than anything else on the road. So, with lesser emissions controls (again, i don't know what emissions controls France enforces) diesels will be, at the very least, perceived as more polluting.
For reference, nearly EVERY diesel in Peru rolled coal
With the current crop of emissions stuff on new diesels, the air is almost cleaner out the tail pipe than it was going in the intake! At a commercial truck trade show a while back, they started a new production truck with a 15L engine and let it run inside the building where the show was being held. There was virtually no issues. No one got sick, hardly anyone could tell any exhaust smell. I suppose their might have been an uptick of CO, but they had monitors around and nothing went off.
Now, the flip side is interesting. Get behind one of those 15L engine going down the road when it starts a DPF regen. That is criminal. Ugh! Terrible smell that is nastier than a pre-emission diesel just running down the road. Leaves a gray smoke trail that I am sure causes some auto drivers to squirm in their seats.
Now, the flip side is interesting. Get behind one of those 15L engine going down the road when it starts a DPF regen. That is criminal. Ugh! Terrible smell that is nastier than a pre-emission diesel just running down the road. Leaves a gray smoke trail that I am sure causes some auto drivers to squirm in their seats.
There is another way for big diesel engines. Our city buses drive on natural gas (CNG). Very clean, no smell, no need for DPFs or SCRs systems.
This article is about older diesel cars that can be found in France anywhere. Without rust issues older diesels will run forever. They really do pollute a lot.
Similar practice about diesels is on force in Italy. Still, people who drive a lot buy diesels nonetheless, but smaller cars are usually petrols.
This article is about older diesel cars that can be found in France anywhere. Without rust issues older diesels will run forever. They really do pollute a lot.
Similar practice about diesels is on force in Italy. Still, people who drive a lot buy diesels nonetheless, but smaller cars are usually petrols.
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