VW 504 Oil Experiment Your Opinion Counts!

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jeffs2006EvoIX

Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
1,663
Hello folks as some have read my threads on the use of vw 504 oil in my new GTI know I am on the fence about staying with the 502 approved vs the 504. My manual states I can use either and with the possibility of lower intake valve deposit formation using the 504 oil I am leaning on trying it for my next oil change. I am posting some oils I am considering and would like some feedback on which you would use and why. The goal is the Low to Mid SAPS oils vs the 502 Oils will help in the reduction of intake valve deposits. I would be changing oil every 3k, 5k max so TBN or TAN are not of much concern for me.

Here is the List of Oils and the info I was able to obtain from their respective manufactures.

Liquid Moly Top Tech 4200 5w30

Certs: BMW LL04, MB 229.51, VW 504/507, ACEA A3/A4, B4, C304
VIS @ 40c 70
VIS @ 100c 12.3
VI 175
pour point -42c
SAPS .7
TBN 6.5

M1 ESP 5w30
Certs: BMW LL04, MB 229.31, 229.51, VW 504/507, Porsche C30, Peugeot/Citron E06-N3/D06-03
Vis @ 40c 72.8
Vis @ 100c 12.1
SAPS .6
pour point -45c
flash point 254c
TBN unknown, folks here are saying 5-6

Motul Specific 5w30

Certs: VW 504/507

No other info available, other than it meets or exceeds Euro 4 specs. I have seen no VOA's of this particular oil.

PU Euro L 5w30

Certs: ACEA A3/B3/B4-04, C2-03, and 04, BMW LLO4, MB 229.51, VW 504/507
Vis @ 40c 67.1
Vis @ 100c 12.0
Flash Point 420F
HTHS 3.68
Noack V is 11

The only one out of all of these that I can buy local is the M1 ESP 5w30. All others will be ordered. I am not too concerned about that though. These 30w's are heavy and have close to the same HTHS of the M1 0w40 in my car now. They may actually have a better HTHS than the M1 0w40 after 3k miles. I live in California where gas has fairly low Sulfur content, and even if it is a little higher sulfur iin the rest of the USA I will not be going over 5k miles on the 504 oil anyway. The goal as stated is to hopefully slow down the intake valve deposit issue.

So thanks for your time in advance, and if there are still those out there that argue NOT to use a 504 in a DI Gas motor feel free to voice your opinion and why.

Thanks All...

Jeff
 
Last edited:
Is that PU Euro L the GTL basestock? If so, I'd lean towards that.

Otherwise, just get the Mobil 1 ESP since it's available locally.
 
Not sure which base stock the PU Euro L would be. Not sure how I can find out? Is there a way to find out?

Jeff
 
If its NOACK is truly 11%, then it's not GTL, IMO.

However, something is not right with that 11% value either. If the oil meets MB 229.51 spec, then it has to have NOACK of no more than 10%, IIRC.
 
Certainly nothing wrong with using it, Ive run the experiments and posted the UOAs.

Just watch that TBN, even at 5k or whatever interval you choose. Id do a few the first OCI to study the titration before selecting an OCI.
 
I think if I do 3k mile intervals I should have no issues at all with this oil. I am not expecting much of a gain in MPG's since the HTHS of these heavy 30w oils are near the 40w oil I am using now (M1 0w40).

I just want to try to help the car out with the Intake Valve Deposits. I believe one reason why other manufactures that use DI motors have less issues with deposits is the oil they chose for the engine. VAG says to use 504, 503 or 502 in my GTI with the 2.0 TSI. The 502 being the ONLY 40w while the 503 and 504 are 30w. Folks I know with Hyundai's and my past Hyundai with the GDI motor spec'd for 5w20 oil which is Mid SAPS oil just by weight and API cert. GM uses a 30w oil for their GDI motors which are Mid SAPS. So maybe the reason VAG has some intake valve issues is mainly due to the oil they spec. Its just a guess.

The M1 ESP 5w30 seems to be rather close in spec to the 0w40 M1 I have in the car now. Well besides TBN of course. Main difference is the SAPS are .6 in the ESP vs. 1.3 in the 0w40. There are other factors of course one is a 30w vs a 40w but why would the dealer be putting in a 502 oil? Is it just so they can get away with the 10K OCI intervals that you get for free? Or because its the best oil for the car?

I dont think the 502 will lubricate any better, or have something in it that will make the oil "better" other than TBN for longer OCI's.

It just boggles the mind haha. All I know is I live in a very hot climate 5 months out of the year, the other months are average, winter can get around 32F in the AM. So either the 5w30 or the 0w40 I am using now is good there. What is interesting though is the Vis @ 40c of the 5w oils is less than the 0w.

Anyway, still hoping for more input im not due for an oil change for 500 miles or so, so I have a couple weeks to think on it.

Jeff
 
I too own a 2013 GTI.
My thought is that the VW 2.0T would prefer using a VW 504 oil at 5K OCI's instead of using VW 502 oil at 10k OCI's in terms of valve intake deposits and wear.

You me and everyone else would like to know the NOACK on PU Euro L 5W30.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I too own a 2013 GTI.
My thought is that the VW 2.0T would prefer using a VW 504 oil at 5K OCI's instead of using VW 502 oil at 10k OCI's in terms of valve intake deposits and wear.

You me and everyone else would like to know the NOACK on PU Euro L 5W30.



NOACK is 11%!
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I too own a 2013 GTI.
My thought is that the VW 2.0T would prefer using a VW 504 oil at 5K OCI's instead of using VW 502 oil at 10k OCI's in terms of valve intake deposits and wear.

You me and everyone else would like to know the NOACK on PU Euro L 5W30.



NOACK is 11%!

Except that the spec sheet is probably wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I too own a 2013 GTI.
My thought is that the VW 2.0T would prefer using a VW 504 oil at 5K OCI's instead of using VW 502 oil at 10k OCI's in terms of valve intake deposits and wear.

You me and everyone else would like to know the NOACK on PU Euro L 5W30.



NOACK is 11%!

Except that the spec sheet is probably wrong.


Could be, who knows. I think so far they have been pretty good in their PDS.
 
VW 504/507 SAPS is .8 max.

If you don't have an oil burner like my Passat 2.0T is (still is), should be fine.

It is especially important if you want to keep your warranty to use a VW-spec oil.

Otherwise, Shell Rotella T6 has served me well... which has a SAPS of 1.0. About 100,000 miles is when I need to clean the intake.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
VW 504/507 SAPS is .8 max.

If you don't have an oil burner like my Passat 2.0T is (still is), should be fine.

It is especially important if you want to keep your warranty to use a VW-spec oil.

Otherwise, Shell Rotella T6 has served me well... which has a SAPS of 1.0. About 100,000 miles is when I need to clean the intake.

You always had that problem with 2.0T? Is is TSI or TFSI?
Mine is not burning a drop of GC!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
PU 5w-40 (what I'm currently running FWIW) is the one with the insanely low NOACK.


I did try the pu 5w40 euro and posted a uoa. After 3100 miles it sheared to a 30w and not on the high side of a 30w. So I switched to M1 0w40 will do a uoa of that when I put the 504 oil in.

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I too own a 2013 GTI.
My thought is that the VW 2.0T would prefer using a VW 504 oil at 5K OCI's instead of using VW 502 oil at 10k OCI's in terms of valve intake deposits and wear.

You me and everyone else would like to know the NOACK on PU Euro L 5W30.



NOACK is 11%!

Except that the spec sheet is probably wrong.


I pulled the info right off their website today. Said 11.

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
VW 504/507 SAPS is .8 max.

If you don't have an oil burner like my Passat 2.0T is (still is), should be fine.

It is especially important if you want to keep your warranty to use a VW-spec oil.

Otherwise, Shell Rotella T6 has served me well... which has a SAPS of 1.0. About 100,000 miles is when I need to clean the intake.


So what is causing your car to burn oil? If you can't use a heavy 30w like most 504 and 502 oils are something is wrong. Most of the 40w 502 oils will shear to a 30w range anyway.

Your car doesn't burn any of the T6?

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
VW 504/507 SAPS is .8 max.

If you don't have an oil burner like my Passat 2.0T is (still is), should be fine.

It is especially important if you want to keep your warranty to use a VW-spec oil.

Otherwise, Shell Rotella T6 has served me well... which has a SAPS of 1.0. About 100,000 miles is when I need to clean the intake.


So what is causing your car to burn oil? If you can't use a heavy 30w like most 504 and 502 oils are something is wrong. Most of the 40w 502 oils will shear to a 30w range anyway.

Your car doesn't burn any of the T6?

Jeff


Mine has always been an oil burner, not to the degree of 1 quart per 1000 miles, and this was with 5w40. 504/507 easily topped the 1 quart per 1000 miles threshold.

the EA113 based 2.0T are hit & miss when it comes to oil consumption.
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I pulled the info right off their website today. Said 11.

Jeff

I realize that, but as per my earlier comment, you can't have NOACK of 11% and still meet MB 229.51. Either NOACK is below 10% or it does not really meet MB 229.51.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I pulled the info right off their website today. Said 11.

Jeff

I realize that, but as per my earlier comment, you can't have NOACK of 11% and still meet MB 229.51. Either NOACK is below 10% or it does not really meet MB 229.51.


I see.... it should be around what the 5w40 pu is right?

The lubri moly looks good too
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Z
VW 504/507 5w30 "thickness"
Replies
14
Views
3K
SureshR
ibcj
Audi 3.0L: Amsoil AFL VW 502 vs Amsoil EOT VW 504 vs Extra Virgin Olive
Replies
4
Views
1K
JAG
C
Oil for 2013 VW Beetle 2.0 TSI
Replies
10
Views
432
edyvw
Hanynowsky
2025 BMW TPT 5W30 LL01 and 0W30 LL04
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
Hanynowsky
Falcon_LS
Amsoil 0W-40: AZF vs. EFO
Replies
1
Views
396
buster
Back
Top Bottom