Volvo whiteblock turbos

[erika]

Hello, I am considering changing to a different oil for my parents volvos (2002 S40 1.9L 4cyl turbo, 2004 V70AWD 2.5L 5cyl turbo). Both cars located in Minneapolis (cold in winter, fairly hot summers- high 80's/90's)

I have been running both on M1 0w40. Both specify 7.5k mi intervals on conventional oil, but I have been doing 5k changes due to mostly short trip driving. However, both cars recently went the full 7.5k due to oversight on my parents part. I sent both used oils in for UOA (seemed like a good time to do it), and was not pleased (wear and low TBN).

I am still interested in moving to 7.5k intervals, if I can find the right oil. But, perhaps given the engines and type of driving, this won't be possible.

I am considering:
1) Switching to M1 5w30 EP (7.5k)
2) Switching to German Castrol 0w30 (7.5k)
3) Switching to one of the above and sticking w/ 5k
4) Sticking with M1 0w40 and 5k

Any comments/sugestions? Whatever I do will be verified with analysis.

Thanks,
Erik

 

[fred0803]

I have used GC with no UOA but went 5000 miles.
Am using Mobil 5/30 EP right now. Won't have another 5K on it until end of November.
Mobil 0/40 hasn't been the best reported oil I have seen however.

 

[Volvohead]

Your problem is the 7.5k interval, not the oil.

In these turbos, 5k is the reasonable limit under most circumstances, even with a synthetic. M1 0w-40 is not a long-interval oil in this application. You would need to consider oils such as GC, RL or Delvac 1 with UOAs to determine how much over 5k is reasonable.

There are nevertheless legions of dealers out there still pumping bulk 5w-30 into these every 7.5k.

 

[Pablo]

I would seriously consider the offerings from Amsoil as well. In my white block 850 I am currently running ACD 10W-30 diesel oil, but I have run many of the Amsoil motor oils from 5W-30, 5W-40 to 15W-40. The Amsoil AFL 5W-40 Euro Oil is my initial recommendation. However Amsoil does have a new oil that should do quite well in the white block turbo: Amsoil DEO 5W-40

 

[Kestas]

I just bought an 02 Volvo S40 1.9L turbo with 40K. I was shocked to find the manual recommends regular 5W-30 with 7.5K OCI. There is some evidence of deposits in the engine.

I personally feel leery of using anything but synthetic in a turbo engine. Presently I'm running Rotella 5W-40. I plan on using 6K OCI, similar to your schedule. I'm thinking of switching to a synthetic 5W-30, because there is no recommendation in the manual for a -40 weight oil.

 

[totttalled]

I'd also strongly suggest a Auto-Rx cycle with a dino oil and follow the directions exactly before you switch to synthetic. Do a search on this board and see how well regarded this stuff is.

 

[Volvohead]

I think any of the mid to heavier 30 weights are optimal for most pedestrian white blocks. The NA models are particularly easy on oil and should run forever on a humble Xw-30 conventional. I prefer 10w-30 for the pre '99 models with the earlier ring design.

For the turbos, it depends on what your priority is: protection or performance. It's a balancing act. I advocate a full synthetic and possibly shorter OCIs wherever a turbo is involved, depending on the engine variant. Stock turbo models seem to perform their best, yet hold up fine on a 30. Most still perform quite well on many 40 weights, generally speaking. In more aggressive driving environments, I lean towards the latter. But go too heavy and the spool up will quickly suffer. 40s used to be the European preference for these, but that may be changing.

If you have a tuned/modded turbo, the viscosity tightrope gets tighter still, and high end uberoils like RL and GC and more robust 40 weights start to make even more sense . . . as one might expect when 2.5L is asked to deliver 350 hp (or more) in the more extreme R examples.

 

[Tones]

Just curious why the Mobil 1 EP with only 5-7.5k intervals? I am using Mobil 1 "Classic" in my S60 2.5T in 10W-30. The "Classic" now has a higher viscocity than it used to. The 5W-30 even has an edge on the 10W-30. IMO is about right for these engines. If I were you I would consider the 5W-30 in the winter, 10W-30 in the summer. Although 5W-30 would probably work year round for short trips where it takes a long time to accumulate miles. If this is your case, I would stick with the 5k interval. I have a similar situation and split the dealership intervals of 7.5k with 3.75k OCIs of my own.

Are you seeing fuel dilution and is that why the longer interval was bad? Would appreciate more information on what you are seeing.

 

[ALS]

I have a 2.3 liter 4 cylinder turbo in my 87 745. My 10W30 M1 is shot by 5K miles due to the Turbo and short (less than 3 miles) trips. Every White Block at my dealer that does 7,500 or more mile OCI's with normal oil has sludge.
I would recommend no more than 5K on any Volvo with short trips.

 

[Roy Gutfinski]

My experience here in Maine: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP year round with Mobil 1 filter. (Before the 5W-30 EP came out I was using a blend of Mobil 1 15W-50 and Mobil 1 0W-30 or 0W-40). I have 199,000 miles on a 1994 Volvo 940 Turbo (reputed to be tough on the turbocharger) and it purrs like a kitten and when I recently disassembled the turbo unit found the rotor spins like it was new.

 

[Roy Gutfinski]

To continue: Usually 10,000 mile OCI which usually end up being in May and November. Mobil 1 filter changed at each oil change. Did the same with my daughter's 1989 740 turbo with similar results. I am getting concerned about Mobil's messing with the formulas between "regular" Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP. I think they are capitalizing on the Mobil 1 name and "dumbing down" the "regular" Mobil 1. When I first used Mobil 1 in the 1970's it was a fabulous oil but only made in the relatively thin 5W-20 formulation. But many went with 20,000 mile OCI with filter changes at 6,000 or so and had amazing results. My daughter now has a 1999 "sludgemaster" Saab 93 I just bought her with 77,000 miles and it looks like a new car. Had Mobil 1 from day 1 with 5,000 mile OCI. Pulled the pan before I bought it and it looked like the inside of a Swiss watch down there. Going to continue on it with Mobil 1 5W-30 EP and not more than 6,000 OCI.

 

[erika]

This is what blackstone had to say:

We found some excess wear and fuel in the first sample from your Volvo. The iron we found
may be residual from previous long oil runs or it could show excess wear at a steel part sharing the oil.
We can't always tell as much as we'd like from just one sample. The fuel we found, present at 1.5%, is
likely from city driving/idling. 2.0% is what we consider cautionary so we'll keep an eye on it next time.
The TBN read 1.1, showing little active additive left. 1.0 is low. We suggest a short oil run (~4,000 mi)
to flush some of the excess wear from the system.


Iron was 35ppm. The reason I would use EP and not go over 7.5k is I don't think this engine with this use could do it, with any oil. As volvohead say, with the short trips, it may be that NO oil would be appropriate for >5k intervals in this engine.

 

[Goober Hoedecker]

Have 1992 240 DL Wagon 2.3 liter non turbo red block, ran 10w-30 Chevron Supreme to 126M miles, then c/o to Amsoil ATM 10w-30 currently w/160M miles. Used Mobil 1 10w-30 EP for one OCI, this engine prefers Amsoil based on UOA. Location is Houston,TX.

 

[NJC]

Quote:

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I have a 2.3 liter 4 cylinder turbo in my 87 745. My 10W30 M1 is shot by 5K miles due to the Turbo and short (less than 3 miles) trips.

---

ALS:

Are you referring to this: M1 10W30 Volvo 4 cyl Turbo 4541 miles

But you also had fuel dilution problems too. And you also said from that thread "Well I do have 14.5 lbs of boost and I do like to jump on the Turbo a lot."

I'm also looking for info about running my '89 745T for extended drains with XD-3 0W30. But stock boost and easy miles.

 

[ALS]

Yes that is the one. I have been wanting to do another oil analysis for close to 2 years but the car has been acting up and I figured it wasn't worth it. I've had some electronic issues that caused the car to run rich off and on. It seems that I have now gotten that squared away and the next oil change I'm sending in a sample. The engine will have over 60K on it by then and it should give me some good numbers. I'm planning on disconnecting the APC and turning down the boost to 10 psi at the waste gate. Now that I have it running right there is no need for so much boost. Another problem I have with the 740 is the oil temperature never gets above 180 degrees. Not much of the garbage is getting burned or boiled off like it would if the oil temperature was getting up into the 200 plus degree range.
I'm doing an oil analysis on the 97 960 at the next oil change. It has been through an Auto-Rx treatment and this is the second oil change since the cleaning. I'm really interested in the numbers since most of it's mileage is 95+ percent interstate.

 

[Tones]

erika,
with fuel dilution you are right that no oil will do very well. Try getting them to take it out on the highway once in a while. Might also try an injector cleaner/lubricator. I am using FP60 in mine. I will be doing an analysis on the next change also. Another reason to use the "Classic" formula because it starts a little thicker than the EP formula so there is a slightly better margin to combat dilution. If you can't stop the dilution you might even consider GC, which starts thicker still and is very shear stable. I don't think you can go wrong with Amsoil either which has shown to be very shear stable.

What was your Si #?