Very Dark Gray After Only 1,200 miles!

[gathermewool]

Car: 2008 Subaru WRX STI
ODO: 62,226 miles
Miles on oil: ~1,200 (allegedly - the dealer said they drained and refill it to see what the oil looked like, and that it was amber-colored, but that may not be the truth. Note: the rear diff only recently started overflowing from the vent port, which leads me to believe that either they did drain and refill it, albeit with too much refilled, or my worsening binding issue is some how to blame.)

I posted recently about my rear differential being over-filled by the dealer while they were trouble shooting a binding issue I'm having that I was hoping Subaru would cover 1,000 miles outside of the warranty. See more HERE:
So, the dealer only removed the fill plug and drained until no more came out. They would not admit to how much came out, but that's besides the point. I asked whether the diff being over-filled would cause the oil to aerate or foam up. They replied that it was not likely. Well, ~1,200 miles after they say they swapped out my rear diff oil with bulk oil, here's what it looks like:



Here's the before and after of the drain plug:




Here's what the oil looks like after ~1,200 miles:











//


Compare all of that to the factory fill @ 17,000 miles:






Thoughts?

 

[DanielinTheLions]

I'm going to say that if the differential is binding that's the source of what your seeing there. I don't think that a little overfull on the oil is going to murk up the oil like that or generate all those shavings that your seeing on the magnet. I'm not familar with subaru but the rear diffs I've seen would be very difficult to overfill to the point of being dangerous. I once had a 94 aerostar that merked up oil and generated shavings on the magnet like that and when we took it apart a tooth was chipped and the chip was wedged into a gap between the gears and the axel. We ended up removing the chip and changing out all the bearings. Everything was fine even with the chip missing out of the gear.

 

[gathermewool]

Interesting.

It's pretty easy to overfill this unit. Just today I had to pump a bit and remove the tube to see whether I was at the point of dribbling out of the fill port. If one were careless, you could fill it right up to the top and out of the vent port. The oil would not drain to the proper level in the time it takes to remove the tube and quickly install the temp sensor (fill plug.)

Even today, after I had filled to the point of being full and removed the tube, a good amount dribbled out, and didn't slow to a slight trickle/drops for about a minute.

My main concern here is, even after it was drained to the proper level, it was foaming. It foamed in the 10 miles it took to drive from place to the shop. Is this normal?

 

[gathermewool]

Also, the binding has not changed at all after the fluid change. I used M1 75W-90 LS. I used an friction-modified lube just in case Subaru accidentally installed an '06 plate-type LSD at the factory.

 

[Jim Allen]

Wool, I think you may be at the point where your Subie needs some exploratory surgery. That, or run 'er 'till something grenades... or the symptom stops. NOt sure how you will work that out with the dealer but I don't see a clear course here until you find out exactly what's going on.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Wool, I think you may be at the point where your Subie needs some exploratory surgery. That, or run 'er 'till something grenades... or the symptom stops. NOt sure how you will work that out with the dealer but I don't see a clear course here until you find out exactly what's going on.



Unless they decide to swap it out fully on their dime, I may pull the cover and take a better look at the ring and pinion teeth for what I'd have to assume will be obvious signs of wear, and in what pattern.

After the accident, though, I'm going to at least see what I can get for trade-in on a new Forester. As much as I don't want to buy a new vehicle, I'm worried about the reliability of the STI and I really don't want to deal with a private sale. I plan to walk in with a differential between what I want to pay for the Forester and what I want for trade in. I'll start off with a low differential and see if they at least stay within my band.

 

[RF Overlord]

That much fur on the magnet after only 1200 miles is not a good sign...

 

[millerbl00]

Let this be a lesson. Unless you are making enough at work to cover the cost of a repair find out the problem. Similar thing happened to me a low paying job cost me a very costly repair. Not worth it. Job does not care if you ruin you car.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
That much fur on the magnet after only 1200 miles is not a good sign...


It's so dark and the magnet is so full that I want to believe that they really didn't swap out the gear oil, and this has been in there for >43k miles, not just 1k miles, though I never asked them to and they were quick to say that they wouldn't charge me for it.

I've looked around online, and it seems that Torsen rear diffs do produce black oil after a bit, and that the aeration is somewhat normal.

Another data point: I drove ~50 semi-aggressive miles and everything seemed relatively planted in the twisty back roads without any unusual issues, leaving me very slightly hopeful that the LS additive in the Mobil gear oil might have helped for some unbeknownst reason. Of course, as soon as I turned into a neighborhood and started taking tighter turns the binding was as bad as ever!

When I got back home, the highest reading temp on the rear diff was 131F, though there pretty long cooldown period while traveling behind slower cars and then in 25MPH zones. If I had my IR thermometer with me, I would have taken a reading after the aggressive driving.

 

[gathermewool]

Just stopped by the local dealer to talk about a trade, and after pulling the Car Fax and seeing the accident he said he would need to have it thoroughly inspected, but if he had to give me a number today it would be $14-15k. I thanked him for his time and told him that he was not even in the same hemisphere as what I was thinking. He did mention that he might offer as much as $18k if the inspection came back perfect, but was worried about certifying and selling the car. More than likely, he'd fleece me and have no problem making a hefty profit by sending it to auction.

Anyway, the absolutely minimum I was willing to go was $19k, maybe a little more, but not THAT much more.

Has any one ever dealt with insurance and getting a check for devaluation? I can't believe I didn't think of this before and push for it. :furious:

 

[KrisZ]

Why not drive it? You don't mind taking a hit on trading the car but you are afraid of repairing the differential, which may be covered by the warranty?
I don't see the logic here.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Why not drive it? You don't mind taking a hit on trading the car but you are afraid of repairing the differential, which may be covered by the warranty?
I don't see the logic here.


There are some things I can clarify or that I left out of the "wanna trade" logic that might help:

1. This car was in an accident last year with damages costing nearly the value of the car. USAA doesn't total a vehicle unless repairs equal the value of the car. The lady who hit me, her insurance company is fighting mine, saying it should have been totaled immediately.

2. Rear diff has not been difinitively diagnosed as the cause (nor the only issue.)

3. So far, Subaru has offered to pay for half of the repair, not the entirety.

4. Besides the rear diff and other potential (though not apparent) issues that could arise due to the accident, there are other concerns that I have.

4.1 My brake pedal recently has become very stiff very soon after shutting the car down. I checked the check valve in the vacuum line to the booster and it checks out. Now that I have more time I'll do some more trouble-shooting.

4.2 I had my secondary air injection valves replaced just before my warranty expired. Based on mostly conjecture, it seems that this is relatively common, and people who have had it fail once will experience it again every couple of years. That's over a grand there unless I deleted the system and tune out the DTC.

So, all of these concerns make for a less pleasurable driving experience. What I'm looking to do, is get a fair trade, if I can. I'm definitely not going to trade the thing in and take $5k less than my lower limit, though. $5k is enough to repair the diff and any other likely issues that might arise.

 

[millerbl00]

Time to sell.

 

[Jim Allen]

Lotta tough choices to make there, Wool. The old phrase, "rock and a hard place" comes to mind. Condolences.

 

[cashmoney]

You're unlikely to get even the low wholesale price for your car with that type of accident on carfax. File a loss of value claim with the party that hit you or file suit in small claims court - be sure to get a 3 written purchase offers from dealers. This is the only way you can get back to close to even on the accident. But it sounds like time when by and you may have already closed the claim, you may have signed paperwork that you were closing out claim so may be too late.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: cashmoney
You're unlikely to get even the low wholesale price for your car with that type of accident on carfax. File a loss of value claim with the party that hit you or file suit in small claims court - be sure to get a 3 written purchase offers from dealers. This is the only way you can get back to close to even on the accident. But it sounds like time when by and you may have already closed the claim, you may have signed paperwork that you were closing out claim so may be too late.


After receiving such a low offer I gave myself the night to calm down, but called my insurance as soon as I got off work the next day to get the claim and insurance information of the lady who hit me.

I'm waiting now for a few things to come through, and while I'm naturally cynical, the process seems pretty straight forward, and I'm hoping for a check to cover the difference, which would be nice.

I haven't signed anything to close out the claim, so I'm hopeful that this won't be a waste of time.