Varnish and Deposits

[Shannow]

I'd say that "cam wear" isn't really wear, just a track through the gunk...and on the whole, I've seen heaps worse.

I've this year (through work) sponsored an undergraduate thesis on varnish and sludge, and it's an oxidation process that could possibly be called a cascade of free radicals destroying the lubricant.

Varnish then goes looking for a cold place to settle, and cam girdles, rocker covers, and cams are pretty much the "cold" spots in an engine.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: INTJ


And to be more accurate, there was a 35k oil in one run- Amsoil 0-30, and before the Eao type filters there were the SDF's. These you changed at 12.5k, so there was an added quart + another for top off for the years run..... some added TBN for 3 of the 5 oil changes.

I used their air filters with this.

Maybe this went south at my usage of the annual filter for other two runs, IDK.



One was 35K miles? Wow. And the 20K runs no filter changes? Thanks for posting. Some people will twist this into antiextended drains and anti-Amsoil, but really I get on the dealers - getting to know the customers uses is just as important as selling the product. Well just clean the engine up (the heads don't look so bad) and the valve covers can be cleaned more aggressively since they are off.


All oil changes were 19-20k and with one filter change when going with the Eao setup. The SDF'S were 2 in a year.

The 35k was the Amsoil claim on their 0w30 series( at one time).... I've noticed they don't offer this mileage now.....and it had a TBN of> 13; but now it's 12 or so.

Fortunately there isn't a ridge on the cams, as one poster said it's a "varnish track."

One thing I have to do is change that Motorcraft 820s filter soon, or chocolate creek is right around the corner on this Auto RX treatment.

The front timing cover is very dark from what I can see in the narrow gap... it looks like the crusties have barnacled here too.

Do you you guys think the TBN zeroed?

P.S. compression is as strong as ever on gauge, and as indicated by same fuel economy.

Thanks for the posts and keep them coming.

 

[ltslimjim]

Forget what ANY company's sales pitch is, IMO.

Any oil/engine combo need a used oil analysis to verify things from time to time, EVEN after establishing a 'reasonable' xx amount of mile OCI on oil 'blank'.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: INTJ
I went a year between oil changes for 5 oil changes at 20k HWY miles/year ( Amsoil- no oil analysis).


Not an Amsoil user, could never imagine going that far, but not bad for multiple 20k's. Looked under many valve covers on vehicles running synthetics for as short as 5k, seen far worse. The oil proved its good but its clear for this vehicle and the conditions its just too far. Highway at speed limit, hot. At 70-80 for an hour, close to flashpoint. Add a trucks lack of aerodynamics, some tired coolant, turn on the a/c on a 90 degree day, oils on fire in there. Some vehicles are prone to valve cover deposits from heat. Some vehicles just can't do an extended drain. I do have a problem with Amsoil making it appear that "any vehicle can do it", always have to analyze people that tout Amsoil to see if they profit from saying so, but I'd say it will work well for you if you cut the interval in half. Every 6 months. If thats not cost effective, too time consuming find an off the shelf alternative.

 

[virginoil]

Stick with manufacturers oil change guidelines eg oil weights and OCI's.

Too many trying to rewrite the owners manual.

The OEM's know what they are on about.

I wish I stuck with common sense in my early days when I was sucked into the fever and kept longer OCI's, thinner grades and always trying the "in" brands so I could break through the barrier and to report the golden find.

I could have saved myself a weeping engine without messing around with expensive oils and extended drains.

Don't get sucked by the hype. I have sobered up now.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: INTJ
One thing I have to do is change that Motorcraft 820s filter soon, or chocolate creek is right around the corner on this Auto RX treatment.


IMO ARX is another overhyped product. After researching ARX I see a lot of internet recommendations with little proof. Not the case on BITOG. Here people did open up to find out, provided pics, found it ineffective or no better than MMO most of the time. But you have the before pic, open her up and prove the stuff works!

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: INTJ
I went a year between oil changes for 5 oil changes at 20k HWY miles/year ( Amsoil- no oil analysis).


Not an Amsoil user, could never imagine going that far, but not bad for multiple 20k's. Looked under many valve covers on vehicles running synthetics for as short as 5k, seen far worse. The oil proved its good but its clear for this vehicle and the conditions its just too far. Highway at speed limit, hot. At 70-80 for an hour, close to flashpoint. Add a trucks lack of aerodynamics, some tired coolant, turn on the a/c on a 90 degree day, oils on fire in there. Some vehicles are prone to valve cover deposits from heat. Some vehicles just can't do an extended drain. I do have a problem with Amsoil making it appear that "any vehicle can do it", always have to analyze people that tout Amsoil to see if they profit from saying so, but I'd say it will work well for you if you cut the interval in half. Every 6 months. If thats not cost effective, too time consuming find an off the shelf alternative.


Some very good points.

When I did the annual dump, that oil was as black as a heavenly black hole, or as black as a diesel oil change( I've done one).
But it dropped as water would. Didn't thicken. I just went too far with this protocol. To be fair to the Amsoil folks, I'll do 12k and post the report.I believe Amsoil is least capable of 15k, and we'll see.

My uninformed/ flawed rationale for going this far was: 1) I was under 25k. 2) I thought I didnt meet " severe service" criteria,e.g. no towing, and majority HWY miles. 3) I thought oil analysis was for the Bypass folks.

Thanks for posting.

 

[JAG]

Deposits and varnish can form when the TBN is well above zero. The detergents and dispersants are not able to prevent the sticky particles from sticking to engine surfaces. Relative to each other, dispersants are better at surrounding larger particles at low temperatures and the detergents are better for smaller particles at hot temperatures. But relative to themselves, both are better at surrounding particles at hot temperatures than cold temperatures. Since it's winter where you live now, I'd put a single layer of towel over your valve cover to keep it warmer and better allow the oil to clean the top part of your engine.

 

[pavelow]

Why would you do that to your engine?

 

[steve20]

I think you got away with murder....don't do anything too aggressive at cleaning, keep OCI under 10K and I' think you'll be able to walk away from this one in another 100K

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Stick with manufacturers oil change guidelines eg oil weights and OCI's.

Too many trying to rewrite the owners manual.

The OEM's know what they are on about.

I wish I stuck with common sense in my early days when I was sucked into the fever and kept longer OCI's, thinner grades and always trying the "in" brands so I could break through the barrier and to report the golden find.

I could have saved myself a weeping engine without messing around with expensive oils and extended drains.

Don't get sucked by the hype. I have sobered up now.


Bingo.

I always have to chuckle a bit when I see vehicle owners trying to out smart the engineers that designed and built the product.

 

[gathermewool]

I'm not really sure what you're hoping to accomplish with Auto-Rx that a few shorter-than-you've-been-doing changes using the same oil you've been using, Amsoil (or any other good synthetic.) You're not cleaning up mess left by cheapo mineral oil with shorter changes with mineral oil.

 

[ottotheclown]

I might be wrong but has not some guy in Utah been saying just that for a time here on BITOG ????

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Stick with manufacturers oil change guidelines eg oil weights and OCI's.

Too many trying to rewrite the owners manual.

The OEM's know what they are on about.

I wish I stuck with common sense in my early days when I was sucked into the fever and kept longer OCI's, thinner grades and always trying the "in" brands so I could break through the barrier and to report the golden find.

I could have saved myself a weeping engine without messing around with expensive oils and extended drains.

Don't get sucked by the hype. I have sobered up now.


Bingo.

I always have to chuckle a bit when I see vehicle owners trying to out smart the engineers that designed and built the product.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'm not really sure what you're hoping to accomplish with Auto-Rx that a few shorter-than-you've-been-doing changes using the same oil you've been using, Amsoil (or any other good synthetic.) You're not cleaning up mess left by cheapo mineral oil with shorter changes with mineral oil.


Could be.
I have 141k on clock now. I've done 3 Motorcraft semi-dino OCI's @ 5k since the long runs. This didnt clean it one iota.

Truck oil change history, copied & pasted from log:
*Changed oil 11-17-04 9504 miles to Amsoil xl 7500 5w-20

*Oil change 4/22/05 16700 miles[ amsoil 5w30 25,000 mile oil ]
Filter change only 10/1/05

*Oil change 4/2/06 0w30 [35000 mile oil]

*Changed filter on 10/06/06

*Oil change 0ct. 1 , 2007 0w30 Amsoil

*Oil change 10-8-2008 [ Amsoil 5w30]80,000 miles

*10-1 -2009 5w30 Amsoil

10 -7 -10
*Oil change Amsoil 5w30 @ 125,000 miles.

Edit to add: Flushed crankcase with NAPA cleaner due to varnish and deposits; replaced Amsoil with Motorcraft 5w20 with Motorcraft filter.
saved oil for xterra as it had only 100 miles on it.

Oil change Motorcraft 5w20 @ 130400 miles.

Oil changed MC 5w20 @ 135,000 miles.

Oil change Pennzoil 5w20 & Auto RX. 140,100
______________________________________________________________

Notes: Napa stuff was safe; no kerosene. It did brighten it up some.

It looks like I stretched one run way too far here.... If I remember the 0w30 consumed oil, and added much in, hence maybe the stretch..reason why I went back to 5w30.

I didnt use the 5w20 because I knew engine was engineered for 5-30, and later fuel economy politics bred the very good MC 5w20.
I was uncomfortable at the time with too light of an oil, so I thought.

 

[Pablo]

Did you have the car in the shop for any other work during any of the runs?

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: INTJ
One thing I have to do is change that Motorcraft 820s filter soon, or chocolate creek is right around the corner on this Auto RX treatment.


IMO ARX is another overhyped product. After researching ARX I see a lot of internet recommendations with little proof. Not the case on BITOG. Here people did open up to find out, provided pics, found it ineffective or no better than MMO most of the time. But you have the before pic, open her up and prove the stuff works!


OK, I'll pull the valve cover again after the final rinse phase.

I've got the valve cover down to a science, and it won't take long the second time around.

The company's protocol is one bottle for 3k, then 3k on a rinse. From what I understand the rinse phase really darkens the oil too.

I'm going to spin off that filter in 500 miles and top it off...I'll open the filter and if anything is noteworthy
I'll necro this thread with a pic.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
Im not going to bag on amsoil but they need to be more forthcoming and what people should expect from their product. When more uninformed people go through the website they just have the impression they can go 25,000 on an OCI. Most people don't even know what a used oil analysis is.

Imagine the people that do this and don't even check the oil level. This is why im not and Super long OCI person


Agreed, extended OCIs are not for everyone, even following the oil companies guidelines. When you start to extend OCIs, you need to have the oil tested, check the level [basic but I bet a lot of people take that for granted] and if possible look for sludge and varnish deposits. Taking the oil companies word as Gospel can cause problems for people, especially people who fall under the severe service category.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Did you have the car in the shop for any other work during any of the runs?


Nothing. This is a F150 btw. Great truck...

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: INTJ
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Did you have the car in the shop for any other work during any of the runs?


Nothing. This is a F150 btw. Great truck...


The best... Whens the last coolant change/drain?

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: INTJ
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Did you have the car in the shop for any other work during any of the runs?


Nothing. This is a F150 btw. Great truck...


The best... Whens the last coolant change/drain?


I did the first in 05 and another in 10. I drained it from bottom block drain plugs to get it complete @ 4 gallons. I used the pre-mixed.

I'm one for extended servive and did the 5 year 150k orange GM Dexi cool.IDK about this stuff, I've heard good and bad. In short, it looks new in block, no mineral deposits.
All the coolant related stuff is original, including the hoses.


I try to keep it nice all the way around, shot with cheap camera last March: