Varnish and Deposits

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
I might be wrong but has not some guy in Utah been saying just that for a time here on BITOG ????

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Stick with manufacturers oil change guidelines eg oil weights and OCI's.

Too many trying to rewrite the owners manual.

The OEM's know what they are on about.

I wish I stuck with common sense in my early days when I was sucked into the fever and kept longer OCI's, thinner grades and always trying the "in" brands so I could break through the barrier and to report the golden find.

I could have saved myself a weeping engine without messing around with expensive oils and extended drains.

Don't get sucked by the hype. I have sobered up now.


Bingo.

I always have to chuckle a bit when I see vehicle owners trying to out smart the engineers that designed and built the product.


Yeah Bill has been stating the same thing like Doug Hillary and others.

 

[Bayman]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Most initial engine deposits are fuel dilution related


How do we combat this Fuel Dilution problem.

Pablo, are you saying that the Varnish Deposits are fuel related or maybe it's Combustion byproducts that got past the rings.

These deposits were not caused by the motor oil but by a faulty PCV.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Bayman


These deposits were not caused by the motor oil but by a faulty PCV.


How do you know for sure? It could oil related, the OP did some pretty long OCIs. It could be fuel related and it could be the PCV. Or all of the above. First thing I'd do is shorten the OCI and change the PCV valve, then toss some MMO or Kreen into it and try and clean it up. JMO

 

[Bayman]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Bayman


These deposits were not caused by the motor oil but by a faulty PCV.


How do you know for sure? It could oil related, the OP did some pretty long OCIs. It could be fuel related and it could be the PCV. Or all of the above. First thing I'd do is shorten the OCI and change the PCV valve, then toss some MMO or Kreen into it and try and clean it up. JMO


I should have said the deposits were PROBABLY not caused by the motor oil.

I think it would probably take Kreen or MMO sometime too clean this engine up.

Even though the OP did some long OCI's, it was mostly Highway Driving which should be easier on an oil, maybe Amsoil Motor Oil is not really a 25,000 Mile Oil even in the right conditions, seems like it could be a 10,000 mile oil.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Bayman


These deposits were not caused by the motor oil but by a faulty PCV.


How do you know for sure? It could oil related, the OP did some pretty long OCIs. It could be fuel related and it could be the PCV. Or all of the above. First thing I'd do is shorten the OCI and change the PCV valve, then toss some MMO or Kreen into it and try and clean it up. JMO


I should have said the deposits were PROBABLY not caused by the motor oil.

I think it would probably take Kreen or MMO sometime too clean this engine up.

Even though the OP did some long OCI's, it was mostly Highway Driving which should be easier on an oil, maybe Amsoil Motor Oil is not really a 25,000 Mile Oil even in the right conditions, seems like it could be a 10,000 mile oil.

But according to Amsoil he should have not gone over a year even if it was only driven 5,000 miles, so they're off the hook if he went over 12 months. He also did a 35K mile run. I do agree with you though 25,000 miles is a big gamble even under perfect conditions w/o some testing to be sure its holding up. Even then there is no guarantee it is keeping your engine clean. JMO

 

[Heisenberg]

So is there any kind of product that can help prevent sludge or help with minimal sludge? Like Marvel Mystery Oil?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Heisenberg
So is there any kind of product that can help prevent sludge or help with minimal sludge? Like Marvel Mystery Oil?


MMO will work, Kreen will work, and shorter OCIs would have helped too.

 

[Bayman]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Bayman


These deposits were not caused by the motor oil but by a faulty PCV.


How do you know for sure? It could oil related, the OP did some pretty long OCIs. It could be fuel related and it could be the PCV. Or all of the above. First thing I'd do is shorten the OCI and change the PCV valve, then toss some MMO or Kreen into it and try and clean it up. JMO


I should have said the deposits were PROBABLY not caused by the motor oil.

I think it would probably take Kreen or MMO sometime too clean this engine up.

Even though the OP did some long OCI's, it was mostly Highway Driving which should be easier on an oil, maybe Amsoil Motor Oil is not really a 25,000 Mile Oil even in the right conditions, seems like it could be a 10,000 mile oil.

But according to Amsoil he should have not gone over a year even if it was only driven 5,000 miles, so they're off the hook if he went over 12 months. He also did a 35K mile run. I do agree with you though 25,000 miles is a big gamble even under perfect conditions w/o some testing to be sure its holding up. Even then there is no guarantee it is keeping your engine clean. JMO


There was one OCI where the OP went 18 months, I don't think he did a 35,000 mile run, I think he was using the Amsoil that was rated for 35,000 miles, he still did a 20,000 mile run.

If you are doing a 1 Year 25,000 mile OCI or maybe even 20,000 miles then the cost of used oil analysis add up and then it would probably be more cost effective too use Amsoil XL and change it every 6 months.

 

[91344George]

A few OCs with an HDEO like Shell Rotella will do the trick.

 

[Bayman]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
A few OCs with an HDEO like Shell Rotella will do the trick.


Would Shell Rotella be better than Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: Bayman
[I should have said the deposits were PROBABLY not caused by the motor oil.

I think it would probably take Kreen or MMO sometime too clean this engine up.

Even though the OP did some long OCI's, it was mostly Highway Driving which should be easier on an oil, maybe Amsoil Motor Oil is not really a 25,000 Mile Oil even in the right conditions, seems like it could be a 10,000 mile oil.

I'm trying auto rx and will repost pictures in 5000 miles. I'm skeptical of it myself, but many people say it works well, even "the best".

A picture here will be worth a 1000 words one way or another for the product.

A couple of thoughts on fuel dilution: The rings never stuck as in many(all?) cases of sludge/deposits... I know this because economy never waned, and last plug change Compression reading was *new.*

Somewhere in the middle of this I changed the PVC but I dont know when.
I'll add that to my list again... could be it.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: Bayman
If you are doing a 1 Year 25,000 mile OCI or maybe even 20,000 miles then the cost of used oil analysis add up and then it would probably be more cost effective too use Amsoil XL and change it every 6 months.


I wonder in hindsight if I went with the bypass, would have been the wiser? Pablo, anyone?

I just seen a new one on EBay for 70, including the 90 type filter.... it sold, and no wonder......

 

[Bayman]

Originally Posted By: INTJ
Originally Posted By: Bayman
If you are doing a 1 Year 25,000 mile OCI or maybe even 20,000 miles then the cost of used oil analysis add up and then it would probably be more cost effective too use Amsoil XL and change it every 6 months.


I wonder in hindsight if I went with the bypass, would have been the wiser? Pablo, anyone?

I just seen a new one on EBay for 70, including the 90 type filter.... it sold, and no wonder......


I do not think a bypass oil filter would have helped you out, your engine is just not meant for Extended Drains with Amsoil or any oil. I am sure the OCI for your 4.6 Engine is 5000 miles.

The Amsoil XL is rated for 6 months or 10,000 miles. This would be my choice.

I know Amsoil has backed off on Extended Drains for certain vehicles, maybe these Ford Modular Engines are not easy on oil.

 

[INTJ]

Positive C. Valve is good as in pulling vacuum.... just checked.

Fuel dilution is ruled out given this and the compression is on par.

Short of an oil analysis though, this isn't ruled out.

I'm hoping the Pennzoil "clean," in their claim of 40% cleanup of sludge on first OCI, along with Auto RX does the trick in one lump.
Under severe conditions Auto RX needs two doses, according to them. I don't think this fits that condition though. We'll see.

I want to get back to the extended drain intervals and post a report.

 

[Bayman]

Originally Posted By: INTJ
Positive C. Valve is good as in pulling vacuum.... just checked.

Fuel dilution is ruled out given this and the compression is on par.

Short of an oil analysis though, this isn't ruled out.

I'm hoping the Pennzoil "clean," in their claim of 40% cleanup of sludge on first OCI, along with Auto RX does the trick in one lump.
Under severe conditions Auto RX needs two doses, according to them. I don't think this fits that condition though. We'll see.

I want to get back to the extended drain intervals and post a report.




Are you getting a used oil analysis done?

 

[hooligan24]

Amsoil said "UP TO" 25k miles...Pennzoil also says "UP TO" 40% sludge removal. neither says you can or will get to 25k miles or 40% sludge removal.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Also Pennzoil does not want you using something with their oil so who knows what percentage if any you'll get. The oil may cancel out the ARX or ARX may cancel out the Pennzoil.

I'd just use one or the other in short OCIs. If it was me I'd be using a 5w30 conventional with MMO every 3k and see how it looks in 9k miles.

Let us know!

Bill

 

[GMorg]

I know it's been noted above, but just a reminder, it really doesn't look like you have a problem. All things considered, it doesn't look bad. If it were mine, I would shorten the OCI, but I wouldn't do anything about the the cosmetics.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: 91344George
A few OCs with an HDEO like Shell Rotella will do the trick.


Would Shell Rotella be better than Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra.


The two Pennzoil products are good BUT they are not HDEOs and will not have the same degree of cleaning detergents as Rotella.

I'd go with the Rotella for a few OCs and then switch to the normal detergent brand of your choice.

Rotella has a great reputation for slow but steady effective cleaning of highly dirty internals.

 

[Bayman]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: 91344George
A few OCs with an HDEO like Shell Rotella will do the trick.


Would Shell Rotella be better than Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra.


The two Pennzoil products are good BUT they are not HDEOs and will not have the same degree of cleaning detergents as Rotella.

I'd go with the Rotella for a few OCs and then switch to the normal detergent brand of your choice.

Rotella has a great reputation for slow but steady effective cleaning of highly dirty internals.


I looked up the VOA on both Pennzoil Ultra and Shell Rotella.

It seems like PU has more:

1) Boron
2) Calcium

It seems that Rotella has more:

1) Magnesium
2) Phos
3) Zinc
4) Moly

I believe the Boron and Calcium are Cleaning Agents and the Zinc and Moly are anti-wear agents, not sure about the Magnesium and Phos.

Unless I am missing something, it seems PU has more cleaning agents than Rotella. I think I read that HDEO's do hold more junk in suspension better than the PCMO's.