"Validity" of filter pics for ARX results

[kilou]

Hi,

I find the topic of Auto-RX benefit evaluation and "proof of efficiency" a very interesting area. I'd say that compression tests or valve cover pics are quite good indicators of the ability of ARX to clean an engine. However most people (me included) have taken, are taking or will take the "dirtyness" of the oil filter or simply the color of the oil as an indication of ARX efficiency. Basically, the dirtier the most effective ARX is! Because this would mean that ARX dislodged the sludge buildup and carbon deposits.

I wonder if this is a correct way to look at things. Indeed don't take this as an offense but what if the dirty look of the oil filter after an ARX clean or rinse phase was simply due to ARX itself breaking down????? Wouldn't this cause the oil filter to look really dirty and full of dark "particles" as well as the oil itself looking much darker??? Don't take me wrong: I'm not arguing that ARX does not work or is clogging your engine, no, compression tests have shown it can free a ring pack so definitely ARX work................but I believe that looking at what the oil filter has trapped during a clean or rinse phase, although convenient, is not really relevant to prove ARX cleaning abilities. What do you think?

 

[JAG]

I sort of thought of that before so I heated up Auto-RX in a metal cup to several hundred degrees (past boiling temp), let it cool and then repeated this many times. It held up well; comparable to other top synthetics I've done this same torture too. That proved to me that Auto-RX is a very thermally/chemically stable mixture. And yes I've done this with mineral oil (Delo 15W-40) and it didn't fare so well: left behind deposits and visibly thickened once it cooled.

 

[SSDude]

In addition to JAG's comments, everyone does not have particles in their oil filter. Apparently, this only happens when there is build up.

 

[BrianWC]

My filter particles were certainly sludge of the same type I had noticed and purchased arx to eliminate.

No offense, I know you want to be thorough, but why not just by some and see what it does for you. You can ask questions on here about arx for years...

It's no magic potion but it certainly does seem to be more effective than most anything else I tried.

 

[TurboJim]

Opening up a used filter is not going to tell you what kind of crud you still might have in your engine, only what's been removed.

 

[va3ux]

Auto-RX itself does not appear to cause the oil to darken. I do nearly a dozen oil changes a year on my car, so I know what the oil looks like. During my runs with AutoRX, the oil did not look any different. It did not get darker due to the presence of the ARX itself.

Further, since I have a pretty hot running engine compared to most, if ARX was going to degrade, form some sort of sludge on it's own and then deposit in the filter, I would have seen that in my filters. I actually didn't see anything at all in the 2 filters from the first clean and rinse phases. So it's pretty safe to say that any new or additional **** found in a filter from an ARX run, is **** that was removed from the engine, but not the ARX itself.

I have it on good advice that ARX is as tough as Redline in terms of ability to withstand high temperatures and oxidation.

 

[Pat M.]

Has anyone ever cut open a normal fill filter? Just wondering.

 

[Russell]

I cut open a filter on my BMW after the first oil/filter change after 2 complete arx treatments. There were some small particles trapped in the filter similar to what I saw during the treatments. I suspect there was some residual cleaning still going on.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat M.:
Has anyone ever cut open a normal fill filter? Just wondering.

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Sure. Many have been cut open in the oil filter forum ..for no good reason beyond wanting to know what's inside. Most of them aren't Auto-Rx filters

 

[Pat M.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat M.:
Has anyone ever cut open a normal fill filter? Just wondering.

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Sure. Many have been cut open in the oil filter forum ..for no good reason beyond wanting to know what's inside. Most of them aren't Auto-Rx filters

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Yea, and how did they look I mean. I don't really follow this stuff, and I semi-believe ARX works so i'm not trying to start stuff, just curiosity killing my cat.

 

[moving2]

This leads to a related question: I see a lot of people posting pics of their cut-open oil filters during and after ARX, but I haven't seen anyone cut open their oil filters BEFORE ARX'ing as a control comparison. If someone has done this and posted pics, please post a link in this thread!

 

[Leo]

I've cut open normal filters and I've never noticed any sort of debris in the media. Maybe worth doing on cars with serious mechanical problems..?

 

[kilou]

quote:

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Originally posted by moving2:
This leads to a related question: I see a lot of people posting pics of their cut-open oil filters during and after ARX, but I haven't seen anyone cut open their oil filters BEFORE ARX'ing as a control comparison. If someone has done this and posted pics, please post a link in this thread!

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I started my ARX treatment 2 days ago (200km on it now) and I kept the oil filter that was installed before the ARX treatment so I'll cut open it and make a comparison at the end of the application.

 

[kgb007stb]

If auto-rx was breaking down then I do not see the unexplainable phenomenon of having more carbon particles during the rinse phase as many have reported here. It would only make more sense to see more debris during the clean phase and nothing during the rinse phase. Don’t also forget that the filter picks up a small part of the larger chunks of carbon which usually tend to settle to the bottom of the oil pan only to be flushed out while an oil change is in progress. I have confirmed this with my “bottom of the pan” paper swipe and comparing how many carbon chunks were present prior to auto-rx, during a clean phase, and during a rinse phase. I have many cut open non auto-rx filters, yet since most were clean I just threw them away not taking any pictures.

 

[va3ux]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat M.:
Has anyone ever cut open a normal fill filter? Just wondering.

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Yes, I have. I did it on purpose, twice before starting ARX, so that I would have a benchmark with ARX.

In my case, I saw no difference after the first ARX Clean or rinse phases ( 2 filters). They looked the same as the non-ARX filters.

For ARX Clean and Rinse #2 (filters #3 & #4), they did show a little bit of stuff in the pleats, but not very much.

I'm on ARX Clean #3 at the moment. We'll see if anything changes.

 

[BrianWC]

Well, I'll point out that I ran straight 15W40 after a rinse phase and saw a marked decrease in sludgies. I'm no arx apologist. I wish it had cleaned more. But it DID clean something.

 

[kilou]

quote:

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Originally posted by kgb007stb:
If auto-rx was breaking down then I do not see the unexplainable phenomenon of having more carbon particles during the rinse phase as many have reported here.

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Good point!

 

[LarryL]

The only problem I had with Auto-Rx was running 15w-40 Delo conventional oil. I normally use synthetic oil and for no rational reason, was nervous having conventional oil in my engine. It's stupid I know, and everything worked just fine. I was still nervous. My reaction to the question about it working and how well is to say that over 20 years, I moved up in viscosity from 5w-30 to 20w-50 to control oil consumption and am now back to 5w-30, again. Something good happend in my engine.

 

[TooSlick]

Larry,

I ran AutoRX with Amsoil and with Petro Canada Duron , 5w-40 (a GP III syn) and it cleaned just fine in both cases....

The whole "have to use dino oil" thing is way overblown in my professional opinion. As I recall, Mobil 1 no longer contains esters anyway so why not just use that if you think this is a real issue?

TS

 

[LarryL]

So Ted, the message is don't use a good synthetic with Auto-RX, use Mobil 1, instead.