USPS Deserves to go down

[Tempest]

Quote:
Because it's all in the contribution level adjustments.

If a company/country doesn't increase in payers, then the people currently working will have to pay people not working at 1:1. So, currently working people will have to be doubly efficient than they otherwise would have to be. This is highly unlikely.

So, to spread the cost of the people not working, you have to increase the amount of people paying into the system.

A ponzi scheme.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I tend to agree with Tempest, but you can't just say 'all'. You've got to qualify it a bit.

Social Security seems like a Ponzi scheme. Newer payees fund the payouts to older ones. Pretty much fits. At one time it was hugely funded, but the Congress spent it all.

My biggest problem with SS is that the last time I was in an office there wasn't anyone over 50 there but me! Mostly 20-35 year olds. A whole lot of folks lined up at the feed trough.

But many pension plans are unfunded. I was recently present a a local city council meeting where they admitted that over 60% of their firefighter and police pensions were not funded!

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Because it's all in the contribution level adjustments.

If a company/country doesn't increase in payers, then the people currently working will have to pay people not working at 1:1. So, currently working people will have to be doubly efficient than they otherwise would have to be. This is highly unlikely.

So, to spread the cost of the people not working, you have to increase the amount of people paying into the system.

A ponzi scheme.


No, because people work 40-50 years, but only an attritioned level of people collect a typically more modest retirement for about 10 years. This is a similar concept to all insurance. It's never going to be 1:1.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
No, because people work 40-50 years

Not at the post office or any government agency that I am aware of. 20 years to retirement is typical.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
No, because people work 40-50 years

Not at the post office or any government agency that I am aware of. 20 years to retirement is typical.


I don't think it is that simple. You have to meet certain age and time requirements. You're not going to just get a full retirement at 40 years old. But all of that can be readjusted, retirement age, time in service, benefit level, contribution level. There's no real reason a person who worked productivity for about 30 years should not be able to get a modest retirement in their 50's or so.

 

[PandaBear]

I agree with Tempest, all pension plans are ponzi scheme.

You are making bet that the future of the employer would be equal in profitability to have future employee funding the current one 1:1.

You are making crazy bet that the future of the employer would be way more profitable than current if they underfund it now and use a stock and bond market risk to amplify the underfund portion due to both the fund and the employer's performance to be correlated. When the company is not doing well because the market is not doing well, they have to pay WAY MORE than what they were underfunding during the good years. How is this not a ponzi scheme?

But of course, if it is in the private businesses, it is "efficiency" and when it is the government funding them in full on time, it is "sucking wealth out of the society".

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
But of course, if it is in the private businesses, it is "efficiency" and when it is the government funding them in full on time, it is "sucking wealth out of the society".

What is "it"?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
But of course, if it is in the private businesses, it is "efficiency" and when it is the government funding them in full on time, it is "sucking wealth out of the society".

What is "it"?


The [underfunding of] pension fund / ponzi scheme.

 

[Shannow]

Years ago, we had a promised tax cut forced into compulsory superannuation retirement savings...so instead of taking less money out of our pay, and handing it to the govt, they were to take the "tax cut" equivalent, and pay it into our personal retirement fund...

Business argued that they could handle the money way better by keeping hold of it, operating with it, and creating even greater wealth (as they must be successful to be in business)...and they won.

Unfortunately, employees "entitlements" come last in a bankruptcy, after the banks, banks, banks, local councils, and every other creditor.

And countless have had their "tax cut retirement savings" go down the chute.

 

[Shannow]

As to the ponzi scheme, I've always believed that it was, until recently.

Oz now has personal retirement savings equivalent to our GDP, and the system hasn't been running THAT long.

How can that much money (and the multiples of it until I can access it at 67) be invested to even outstrip inflation ?

Betting on flies crawling up a wall ? (*)

Maybe it is better that infrastructure is built replaced today, and my kids pay for my retirement, while experiencing better roads, modern buildings etc. etc.

(*) business owners can, as self managed superannuation, buy premesis, houses and cars with their retirement savings, then charge their business leases and rent...business goes belly up, and they are first in line after the banks for the spoils.

 

[mrsilv04]

Until the USPS stops giving the junk mailers the cheap rates, and move to align their salaries and benefits to a level that comes closer to the levels of workers who work for UPS or FedEx, then they get exactly what they deserve.

For all I care, they can cut deliveries to Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays only. It'll only delay the delivery of all of the junk mail that they bring by one day.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Until the USPS stops giving the junk mailers the cheap rates, and move to align their salaries and benefits to a level that comes closer to the levels of workers who work for UPS or FedEx, then they get exactly what they deserve.

Except for the fact that "we" the Taxpayers are not getting what "we" deserve. The PS and all associated with it are continuing to get fat (at our expense) and continue to put out a product that costs way more than it should.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Until the USPS stops giving the junk mailers the cheap rates, and move to align their salaries and benefits to a level that comes closer to the levels of workers who work for UPS or FedEx, then they get exactly what they deserve.

Except for the fact that "we" the Taxpayers are not getting what "we" deserve. The PS and all associated with it are continuing to get fat (at our expense) and continue to put out a product that costs way more than it should.


The PS service cost more than it should really? I thought most people say mailing a letter is quiet cheap and PS shipping rates are affordable. Maybe they just need to align their rates and services with UPS and FedEX and it would be self-supporting. And how much austerity do the postal workers need? You know, not everyone at the postal service is all that well payed, many are contract workers. You seem to not want to pay the going rate for anything unless the workers delivering the service get little to nothing. I know a lot of people who don't care how expensive UPS and FedEX is for instance as long as it doesn't go to benefit of the workforce. It would be pretty miserable for most people if some got their way.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx

The PS service cost more than it should really? I thought most people say mailing a letter is quiet cheap and PS shipping rates are affordable.

What you are missing is the True Cost to sent that letter. The costs fo mail a letter are low (for the sender) bc for the umtenth time..the Government subdizes this failed department.

Quote:
Maybe they just need to align their rates and services with UPS and FedEX and it would be self-supporting. And how much austerity do the postal workers need?

Frankly how Government workers of the USPS adjust their "Austerity" level is for them to decide. They could get a real job in the private sector if they are unhappy.

You can bet that under this business model (if you can call it that) the USPS (without government subsidies) will never be able to compete with Fedex or UPS.

 

[hr1940]

I use UPS because their price is very close to USPS and I can track the pkg. and it is delivered to the door. My mother in law is 101 and has lived in the same house since 1930 and the mail man leaves her packages across the street at her mail box. It is a town of 700 people. I have called the post master and ask why they will not leave it at her door and he replied "We only deliver to the mail box." I ask if he was aware of her age and the difficulty she has going to the mail box in bad weather and he admitted that he was aware of the problem but they follow their rules. UPS will deliver it to the door and knock loudly enough so she can hear him and if the pkg. is big they will take it in the house for her.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: hr1940
I have called the post master and ask why they will not leave it at her door and he replied "We only deliver to the mail box." I ask if he was aware of her age and the difficulty she has going to the mail box in bad weather and he admitted that he was aware of the problem but they follow their rules. UPS will deliver it to the door and knock loudly enough so she can hear him and if the pkg. is big they will take it in the house for her.

Yea..But I guess to be balanced, Helen. My mailman (I have a mailbox at the road) will bring it to my door if it doesn't fit in the mailbox. So I wonder about some of these "Rules".

Also you can track certified letters and packages for not a whole lot extra (USPS)

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: hr1940
I use UPS because their price is very close to USPS and I can track the pkg. and it is delivered to the door. My mother in law is 101 and has lived in the same house since 1930 and the mail man leaves her packages across the street at her mail box. It is a town of 700 people. I have called the post master and ask why they will not leave it at her door and he replied "We only deliver to the mail box." I ask if he was aware of her age and the difficulty she has going to the mail box in bad weather and he admitted that he was aware of the problem but they follow their rules. UPS will deliver it to the door and knock loudly enough so she can hear him and if the pkg. is big they will take it in the house for her.

It all really comes down to SERVICE. We all want to be served....simple. How tired are we all of black and white rules, regulations, and foolish decisions that serve no one. Your post really boils it all down to what matters most.

 

[Vikas]

If USPS were private, the first class letter would cost $1.50 instead of $0.44. A private entity would have to be insane to do what USPS does.

- Vikas

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Al

Yea..But I guess to be balanced, Helen. My mailman (I have a mailbox at the road) will bring it to my door if it doesn't fit in the mailbox. So I wonder about some of these "Rules".

Also you can track certified letters and packages for not a whole lot extra (USPS)


The mail always has done that for me as well, but if a package fits in the box they put it in there. It does suck when gov or quasi-gov services tend to take an inflexible stance. UPS has no choice really but to bring packages to the door. I miss the days when the mailman was a career employee that delivered your mail for years and he knew you personally. A lot of them are part-time, flex-time contract nowadays. I bet if someone talked to the mailman they might make acoomodations. One could always ship return receipt or certified for a nominal cost to assure door delivery but if no one answers it will be taken back to the post office of course.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
It all really comes down to SERVICE. We all want to be served....simple. How tired are we all of black and white rules, regulations, and foolish decisions that serve no one. Your post really boils it all down to what matters most.


Problem is that the "rules" are made by liars lawyers, and there's no way any manager is going to ask an employee to violate them...an employee may decide to go above and beyond, when he/she believes that they should be providing a bit extra, but should anything happen, it's a mass crucifixion.