Using SM in a SN application
- Thread starter Colt
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Personally, I don't see too much of a difference between API SM and SN so I would use it (mixed or not) in an engine these days.
Q.
Q.
What does the OM say? You wouldn't want to void your warranty.
Thanks,Quest.
Miller,the Honda manual just states
• Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container.
Toyota/Lexus I don't know and have to check but the GS was 5w30 and now for '13 0w20 and probably the SN classification.
Miller,the Honda manual just states
• Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container.
Toyota/Lexus I don't know and have to check but the GS was 5w30 and now for '13 0w20 and probably the SN classification.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
What does the OM say? You wouldn't want to void your warranty.
Like that's going to happen.
Of course there will be no problem running your premium TGMO SM 0W-20 in either vehicle.
BTW Honda/Acura Canada is still specifying the SM 0W-20; haven't switched to SN yet.
What does the OM say? You wouldn't want to void your warranty.
Like that's going to happen.
Of course there will be no problem running your premium TGMO SM 0W-20 in either vehicle.
BTW Honda/Acura Canada is still specifying the SM 0W-20; haven't switched to SN yet.
Originally Posted By: Colt
the Honda manual just states Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container.
That's pretty vague. You could run a late 1970's API SE oil and be good.
If you look at the API's Motor Oil Guide you'll see:
SN: CURRENT Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
SM: CURRENT For 2010 and older automotive engines.
Sorry, get some new oil for your 2013 vehicles.
the Honda manual just states Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container.
That's pretty vague. You could run a late 1970's API SE oil and be good.
If you look at the API's Motor Oil Guide you'll see:
SN: CURRENT Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
SM: CURRENT For 2010 and older automotive engines.
Sorry, get some new oil for your 2013 vehicles.
Originally Posted By: AandPDan
Originally Posted By: Colt
the Honda manual just states Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container.
That's pretty vague. You could run a late 1970's API SE oil and be good.
If you look at the API's Motor Oil Guide you'll see:
SN: CURRENT Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
SM: CURRENT For 2010 and older automotive engines.
Sorry, get some new oil for your 2013 vehicles.
.
Interesting though that Honda/Acura Canada is still specifying the SM 0W-20; haven't switched to SN yet.
I have over 30 qts of Toyota 0w20 and most red bottled.
Got the vague description from here.
Pg 277
http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/0A1313/0A1313OM.pdf
Originally Posted By: Colt
the Honda manual just states Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container.
That's pretty vague. You could run a late 1970's API SE oil and be good.
If you look at the API's Motor Oil Guide you'll see:
SN: CURRENT Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
SM: CURRENT For 2010 and older automotive engines.
Sorry, get some new oil for your 2013 vehicles.
.
Interesting though that Honda/Acura Canada is still specifying the SM 0W-20; haven't switched to SN yet.
I have over 30 qts of Toyota 0w20 and most red bottled.
Got the vague description from here.
Pg 277
http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/0A1313/0A1313OM.pdf
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
I appreciate your input and I don't know.
I've used Amsoil at times and that's a no-no for auto manufacturers.
I would think the SM fine for the GS but the same engine last year called for 5w30 and that's why using the SM 0w20 has me nervous and I have a lot of it..
At this point I think I just use the SM in the CR-V but Caterhan knows oil.I do love the moly content of the Toyota SM.Both my previous vehicles used SM.
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
I appreciate your input and I don't know.
I've used Amsoil at times and that's a no-no for auto manufacturers.
I would think the SM fine for the GS but the same engine last year called for 5w30 and that's why using the SM 0w20 has me nervous and I have a lot of it..
At this point I think I just use the SM in the CR-V but Caterhan knows oil.I do love the moly content of the Toyota SM.Both my previous vehicles used SM.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
All I'm asking is how the factory determines an oil grade used for warranty purposes.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
All I'm asking is how the factory determines an oil grade used for warranty purposes.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
More than likely,they really won't know and to play it safe will say they recommend SN.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
More than likely,they really won't know and to play it safe will say they recommend SN.
Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
More than likely,they really won't know and to play it safe will say they recommend SN.
I would tend to agree but I always here,"You better use what is spec'd for warranty reasons!" People must say that for a reason, and that's what I am trying to figure out. Has anyone actually had a factory run in with an oil issue?
Or, they heard it on the internet, because everything is true there.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Colt
Both my vehicles call for SN.
I have many qts of Toyota 0w20 SM.Most are red bottle.
I assume I can use the SM without any problem.
Am I correct?
Let's say Colt did use the 0W20 SM oil and something did happen to his engine, but it is uncertain that the oil caused it. What is the process in which the car manufacturer tries to determine if the oil was the culprit?
Colt, I am not trying to jinx you, I just want to know what is involved to get the results.
Utter fear mongering nonsense.
The difference between SM and SN oils is very subtle indeed, basically SN oils are a bit cleaner.
Amongst other reasons Honda will not for the reason I mentioned and Lexus will not because it is their own oil.
If Colt still had some doubts he could email the dealer or Toyota and ask if he can still use the SM TGMO 0W-20 that he still has.
More than likely,they really won't know and to play it safe will say they recommend SN.
I would tend to agree but I always here,"You better use what is spec'd for warranty reasons!" People must say that for a reason, and that's what I am trying to figure out. Has anyone actually had a factory run in with an oil issue?
Or, they heard it on the internet, because everything is true there.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
All I'm asking is how the factory determines an oil grade used for warranty purposes.
They have lubrication engineers on staff. They know the clearances and they know the specs on the oils and the engines. Granted, they probably err on the side of caution but it's their call.
This isn't a Briggs we're talking about.
I personally doubt you'd ever have an issue but what if something did happen and they decide to pull an oil sample? If it was an SM rated oil would that void your warranty?
All I'm asking is how the factory determines an oil grade used for warranty purposes.
They have lubrication engineers on staff. They know the clearances and they know the specs on the oils and the engines. Granted, they probably err on the side of caution but it's their call.
This isn't a Briggs we're talking about.
I personally doubt you'd ever have an issue but what if something did happen and they decide to pull an oil sample? If it was an SM rated oil would that void your warranty?
If it had already been in use, I have no idea how they could possibly tell if the oil had been SM or SN. They could certainly tell if it hadn't been changed in a timely manner, or was completely the wrong grade though.
I'd think the first place they'd start would be receipts as that costs them nothing but time to look at, and receipts don't tell you if an oil was SM or SN either unless it was back dated before SN even came out.
I'd think the first place they'd start would be receipts as that costs them nothing but time to look at, and receipts don't tell you if an oil was SM or SN either unless it was back dated before SN even came out.
I agree that engineers are very smart. But this is the thing I am asking; How can they determine if an oil is SM or SN? Then, how do they determine if it is XWXX or ZWXX, etc.? Last, how will/do they then determine if the oil (SM,SN) is the culprit that caused the engine to fail?
Like KC stated, reciepts might be the only way to prove this. But if this is the only way to prove engine failure, why gamble with the warranty? Still, it seems like something is missing.
I have been hammered on another forum here about how engineers KNOW that an oil filter can be used multiple OCIs. How? Same with the OP of this thread wants to know, SM or SN? How do the engineers know? I see a lot of answers speculating HOW, but still nothing concrete. I have GOOGLED this multiple ways and still can't find the answer. Any engineers out there have the answers?
Like KC stated, reciepts might be the only way to prove this. But if this is the only way to prove engine failure, why gamble with the warranty? Still, it seems like something is missing.
I have been hammered on another forum here about how engineers KNOW that an oil filter can be used multiple OCIs. How? Same with the OP of this thread wants to know, SM or SN? How do the engineers know? I see a lot of answers speculating HOW, but still nothing concrete. I have GOOGLED this multiple ways and still can't find the answer. Any engineers out there have the answers?
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Buy the similar SN rated version so you're covered with receipts and mix it with the SM oil. Sleep well and don't worry any more.
+1...
I seriously doubt they could tell if it was SN or SM without extensive/expensive testing. You have nothing to worry about.
Buy the similar SN rated version so you're covered with receipts and mix it with the SM oil. Sleep well and don't worry any more.
+1...
I seriously doubt they could tell if it was SN or SM without extensive/expensive testing. You have nothing to worry about.
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